Watching the Cain sexual harassment story unfold is getting to be a little surreal, as new information continues to slowly leak out.
This morning, a well-known GOP pollster went public with his claim that he witnessed Herman Cain sexually harass a woman:
A veteran Republican pollster and former National Restaurant Association employee said Wednesday morning that Herman Cain sexually harassed a woman at an Arlington, Va., restaurant in the late 1990s.
Chris Wilson, now the principal of an Oklahoma-based GOP consulting firm, said in an interview on Oklahoma City’s KTOK radio station that the episode took place in the neighborhood where Cain kept an apartment when he headed the restaurant trade group.
“This occurred at a restaurant in Crystal City (Virginia), and everybody was aware of it,” Wilson said on the station. “It was only a matter of time because so many people were aware of what took place, so many people were aware of her situation, the fact she left — everybody knew with the campaign that this would eventually come up.”
In an interview with POLITICO, Wilson said he was present for the episode and that it took place in the late ’90s.
(Wilson, by the way, now does polling work for one of Rick Perry’s Super PACs.)
A desperate Herman Cain has now publicly accused one of his former campaign consultants of leaking the harassment story to Politico:
Herman Cain accused a former consultant to his unsuccessful 2004 Senate campaign, Curt Anderson, of leaking damaging information about past sexual harassment allegations against Cain… In the summer of 2003, Cain recalls briefing Anderson—his general campaign consultant at the time—that sexual harassment claims were brought against him while he was chairman of the National Restaurant Association from 1996 to 1999.
“I told my wife about this in 1999 and I’ve got nothing to hide,” Cain told me Wednesday. “When I sat down with my general campaign consultant Kurt Anderson in a private room in our campaign offices in 2003 we discussed opposition research on me. It was a typical campaign conversation. I told him that there was only one case, one set of charges, one woman while I was at the National Restaurant Association. Those charges were baseless, but I thought he needed to know about them. I don’t recall anyone else being in the room when I told him.”
(Anderson, by the way, is now an adviser to Rick Perry’s campaign.)
Then, there was the news, reported by our own Matthew Newman here, that a third woman was going to come forward with accusations of harassment:
A third former employee considered filing a workplace complaint against Herman Cain over what she considered aggressive and unwanted behavior when she and Cain, now a Republican presidential candidate, worked together during the late 1990s, the woman told The Associated Press on Wednesday. She said the behavior included a private invitation to his corporate apartment.
The woman said he made sexually suggestive remarks or gestures about the same time that two co-workers had settled separate harassment complaints against Cain, who was then the head of the National Restaurant Association… The employee described in conversations with the AP over several days situations in which she said Cain told her that he had confided to colleagues how attractive she was and invited her to his corporate apartment outside work.
And perhaps the most bizarre twist to the story gets awarded to Cain’s own campaign manager Mark Block, who inadvertently gave the press a new lead on much more recent inappropriate behavior on Cain’s part:
In a cryptic comment made at National Journal’s Election 2012 Preview event Tuesday, Mark Block, Herman Cain’s campaign manager, made reference to an incident involving Cain and a receptionist for a radio talk show host.
Asked by panel moderator Beth Reinhard whether he could guarantee that there’s not more information forthcoming about his past, Block began his answer with a blanket denial, followed by what seemed to be a description of an unreported recent incident involving Cain.
“Mr. Cain has never sexually harassed anybody. Period. End of story,” he said. “As the hours go by, it’s interesting that we even hear from a radio talk show host of Iowa that a receptionist thought that Mr. Cain’s comments were inappropriate.”
POLITICO has learned that the incident involved a staffer for Steve Deace, an influential conservative talk radio host who hosts a nationally syndicated show in Des Moines. And Deace says he did take offense.
Deace, who penned an opinion piece critical of Cain earlier this month, told POLITICO in an email that Cain said “awkward” and “inappropriate” things to the staff at his station.
“Like awkward/inappropriate things he’s said to two females on my staff, that the fact the guy’s wife is never around…that’s almost always a warning flag to me,” Deace wrote. “But I chose to leave that stuff out [of the opinion piece] and make it about his record and not the personal stuff.”
Pressed about what exactly Cain said to the employees of his show, Deace responded by describing how he himself treats his staff… “For example, I wouldn’t tell them or any other woman I am not married to nor related to how pretty she is.”
You get the feeling that the wheels are about to come off. Multiple women, eyewitnesses, and inappropriate behavior as recent as this current campaign… I said a couple days ago that it was difficult to see how this story had any legs, but now it’s getting increasingly difficult to see how Cain comes out of this alive, politically speaking.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Non Perry Non Romney candidates will now really unleash their stuff. Cain is finally out of the way. Expect Santorum/Bachmann to be VERY aggressive in next debate. Each of them has to force a joust with Romney/Perry and win that joust. Otherwise its a two person race
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Yep.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Once is a fluke. Twice is coincidence. Three times however…I think a pattern is emerging here.
It’s time to stick a fork in Cain’s Campaign. It’s done.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Yep to what Matt C said…not comment 1#
It is a two man race.
Newt vs. Mitt
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:47 pm
I am very surprised that things have snowballed as fast as they have. Cain can still survive, but it’s looking like it won’t be so easy.
And seriously… Block needs to be fired. What an idiot.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:47 pm
1 – Yeah. But that’s going to be tough on ROMNEY if Perry doesn’t show up for the debate.
And watch for Gingrich to climb fast now.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:48 pm
If Erickson is jumping ship then Rush will too.
Newt’s time in the sun starts tomorrow.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Agree that it’s a two person race, but perhaps not as you mean it. IMO, the biggest beneficiary of this is Newt. Perry’s a spoiler at this point, nothing more, but a deep-pocketed one, certainly.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm
It also makes it very hard for those soon-to-be-leaving the Cain camp to turn around and jump on the Gingrich bandwagon. Maybe we misfired on the potential Gingrich surge, and it’ll go to Santorum?
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:50 pm
This just gets better! RT @cbsjancrawford Perry camp denies leaking Cain allegations–and points to Romney. “I wouldn’t put it past them.”
13 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:50 pm
4
Cain has sexual harrassment issues, so his voters go to the serial adulteror?? Yeah… I don’t think so. I think Cain goes down some, Perry comes back up some, and we have a three way tie for 2nd. But hey… things happen in this campaign pretty fast… who knows what things will look like by Jan 1st!?!?!?!?
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:50 pm
(I say that in the context that Gingrich doesn’t have a clean image on marital fidelity either.)
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:52 pm
7.
Erickson and Rush have always been for Perry. That is why they made up the lies about Anderson and Wilson working for Romney. They know it doesn’t matter what the truth is, if they say it, the sheeple will believe it.
This was never about Cain to them. Everything is about stopping Romney.
They will tell any lie to keep Romney out.
And so will you.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:53 pm
“Here’s a situation where we’ve got a guy who’s the front runner for the
Newt has played this thing perfectly. He has set himself up to receive most of the Cain supporters.
Newt:
“Republican nomination, has a serious proposal on tax policy: 999, whether you like or dislike it, it is a serious big idea,” Gingrich told Atlanta’s WBS TV, according to ABC News. “He’s out there trying to help a country that’s in desperate trouble, and he has gotten more coverage over the last few days over gossip.”
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Poor Cain. I really feel sorry for him. This was bound to happen as soon as Craig for losers started backing him.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Gingrich has just passed Cain on Intrade for 3rd place.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:55 pm
9
I can just see it now.
Rush tomorrow: “Forget everything I said yesterday about needing an outsider to clean up Washington. What we need is someone with real political experience to get the job done. That’s why Newt’s the man for the job folks”.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Matt Coulter,
16#
That is what we call in the buisness..
THE SMACK FACTOR!!!!!
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:57 pm
17 – Rush said that part of Cain’s appeal was that he was an outsider. And it’s hard to deny that that is true. He never said that he personally believed we needed an outsider.
Let’s not mince words here.
But yeah. Rush will back Newt before he ever backs Romney.
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:58 pm
One thing is for sure… TPAW is seriously kicking himself right now!!!!!!
November 2nd, 2011 at 4:59 pm
19
What do you mean “ever backs Romney.” You mean like he did in 2008? Yep… that happened. And Rush will back him if he’s our nominee.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:00 pm
I just hope Cain makes it to the Saturday Night Debate with Newt.
Newt can’t buy that type of news coverage….the coverage that Newt is going to get with his positive approach to this debate, and his positive approach he will have with Cain.
It will be a love fest between the two men, while at the same time it will show off Newt’s strengths among the Cain backdrop.
The Perfect Newt Storm has a cometh!!
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:00 pm
It’ll be hilarious if folks jump off the Cain train, because of alleged sexual harassment, to support Newt Gingrich serial adulterer. And by hilarious I mean, of course, unreal, like everything else the Republican base has done this election cycle.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:00 pm
We have two guys linked to Perry. Anyone know the allegiances of Steve Deace?
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Both Rick Perry and Herman Cain are finished. It’s clear Perry’s campaign was behind this (which was completely obvious even before this revelation) and now you have the smoking gun. All of this means that Cain’s support will NOT drift to Rick Perry, and it looks like Cain is going to make sure he takes Perry down with him.
It’s clear a pattern is emerging that Cain just doesn’t understand the sort of temperment an aspiring President needs to have. He’s just not ready for Prime Time on a variety of levels, and now you’re starting to get the idea that he’s a bit of a dirty old man to boot.
Romney is the last man standing. Let’s just get this divisive and ugly primary over so we can focus on defeating Obama, because there is NO other viable candidate left.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:01 pm
23 – They will. You and I both know it.
Which means that its time for EVERYONE to admit the obvious.
Romney is a disaster who will NEVER gain the necessary support of the GOP base.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:02 pm
If Romney is our horse for the general election, we’re going to lose the race to the wounded Obama.
I don’t care what the polls say. They don’t show voter INTENSITY at this point. If the GOP nominates Romney than the Republicans lose the enthusiasm edge and they hand the election to Obama.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:04 pm
SMACK PREDICTIONS
UPCOMING POLLS
Iowa:
Romney 23%
Cain 19%
Gingrich 16%
New Hampshire
Romney 43%
Gingrich 14%
Cain 13%
Paul 13%
South Carolina
Gingrich 26%
Romney 24%
Cain 21%
Perry 13%
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Better this all comes out now in the primaries, so the voters vet the candidates and choose the right nominee.
Could you imagine if this had happened a year from now?!?
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:06 pm
If Romney’s the nominee then beating Obama isn’t going to matter much.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Not to worry.
the huge rumor that just exploded in the Twitteverse is…
Governor Palin reconsidering!
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Matthew E. Miller,
That is exactly what the crosstabs says what is going to happen.
It has been showing up poll after poll.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:07 pm
The allegations which are coming from Steve Deace’s camp are the end of Cain’s campaign. Anyone who knows anything about Iowa will tell you that. Deace was a conservative talk show host, he wouldn’t just make this up and would not get involved unless he truly believes (or knows) it happened.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:08 pm
Wow, Perry’s new campaign heavyweights wasted no time in leaking this information about Cain. They are having an immiedate effect, and it is a dirty one. This is Texas campaign politics. It’s Perry’s world…
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Sojourner Truth,
But you have no solution. No one who makes this claim ever has any solution. All of these alternatives are manifestly awful nominees. Which is why the grassroots has had so little success trying to convince establishment types to abandon Romney. Because you can’t beat something with nothing. A random hobo off the street would make a more compelling nominee than Rick Perry. So when someone says “Romney will lose because of a lack of enthusiasm”, I say “yes, yes, perhaps but everyone else will lose by a bigger margin- and none of them are any better, ideologically or on the merits, than Romney”. You’re not going to convince anyone Sojourner. I’m with those fellows who were quoted in that new John McCormack article- if the GOP loses in 2012, it’ll be on Paul Ryan’s conscience. There’s nothing else to say at this point. Romney’s awful. Fine. Doesn’t matter. Everyone else is worse.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Breaking News!
“Herman Cain’s top aide is accusing Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s camp of leaking stories to the media about sexual harassment allegations from the 1990s that have rocked the former pizza company executive’s presidential campaign.
“Mark Block, the chief of staff to Cain’s presidential campaign, makes the claim in an exclusive interview with Fox News Special Report on Wednesday.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/02/cain-camp-accuses-perry-campaign-leaking-sexual-harassment-claims/
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:12 pm
24- Deace HATES Romney. He would just about anything to keep him out of thr WH
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:13 pm
The GOP is really just “Survivor” masquerading as a nomination process. Who gets voted off, who back stabs whom, who gets revenge against whom, who has made enough friends and the least amount of enemies. Politics at its finest.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:13 pm
“Herman Cain’s top aide is accusing Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s camp of leaking stories to the media about sexual harassment allegations from the 1990s that have rocked the former pizza company executive’s presidential campaign.”
zzzz….
and?
The idea that it matters who leaked factual information is absurd.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:13 pm
MEM,
“But you have no solution”
Newt.
This flawed man is at least a Movement Conservative that has intelligence.
I will take that over “awful”.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:15 pm
Wow. Never would have believed it was this bad for Herman, but it is a whole lot worse.
He won’t recover from today. Multiple witnesses, multiple time periods, multiple camps, including his own. I don’t know how long this will take to shake out in the polls, but honestly, I do not see how he comes back after this. He doesn’t possess the skill it would take . . . nobody does.
How and when the polling reflects this reality I don’t know, but he has no path back that I can see.
Just Wow.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:15 pm
36- Very sad, for both Cain and Perry.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:16 pm
24
Say whatever you will about the Romney camp, this just isn’t his style. Perry on the other hand, he’s not afraid to be a cutthroat scumbag. This is just the kind of game he’s been running the last 30 years.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:18 pm
35 – I agree with most of what you said. The entire field SUCKS.
But I’ll take my chances with Gingrich on being a better conservative than Romney. Gingrich is far from perfect but he was never pro-choice. Gingrich didn’t actually implement the beta version of the very law that galvanized Republican opposition to Obama.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:18 pm
uh oh
Breaking: Andrea Shea King Suing Herman Cain For Sexual Harassment
http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=102591&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Iowntheworldcom+%28IOwntheWorld.com%29
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Smack,
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again- Newt is more establishment than Romney, more conventionally pragmatic than Romney, and a great deal less likely to tame the bureaucracy, cut out the red-tape, etc. Plus, he’s a flip-flopper extraordinaire and a good liar. Romney is not a good liar. That’s been his problem. He can make the case intellectually for things he doesn’t believe- that’s the CEO and the Harvard lawyer in him- but you get the sense that he’s at least a little ashamed of it. Newt lies, reverses positions, and passes off conventional bromides as gems, without any compunction seemingly. It’s true enough that he’d make a better nominee and a better President than any of the other clowns, sans Romney, but that’s saying very little.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:18 pm
36. More attempt at misdirection. “Don’t worry about the allegations, LOOK at the guys who leaked it!”
With the blind support for Cain, I wouldn’t be totally surprised if they get away with it, too.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Gingrich and Romney are the only two who could credibly beat Obama in a debate. And with Gingrich you have the added benefit of not allowing Obama to say, “That was such a great plan you enacted that we chose to take it on the road nationally.”
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:20 pm
…..please……..please Cain.
Stay in this race until at least Saturday night.
So close to Nirvana…..so close.
Newt.needs.this.debate.to.happen.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:20 pm
45. That link didn’t offer any evidence of a suit. Just an innocuous photo and an unsubstantiated headline.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:21 pm
48. Thanks for that. If this keeps up, I’m going have to start counting on my toes, too, the number of items we agree on! Never expected it.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Let’s restrict the remaining debates to the Mitt vs. Newt. That would be great to see.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:21 pm
40. Wrong. Romney is flawed. Newt is awful. But I will take, and campaign for, Newt over any of the others by far. Newt would at least be able to speak to the American people during a crisis and help put things in perspective for us. None of the others even have that capability, except Romney.
You’re wearing just as rose-colored glasses regarding Newt as most any Rombot is w/r/t Romney.
I am glad Newt is still hanging around. The GOP desperately needs to avoid becoming the laughingstock circus it’ll become the longer we have some of these other disasters hanging around.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:22 pm
#50,
Because its a joke.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Matthew E Miller,
Points well taken.
I still expect a Newt 2012 sign in your front yard come January.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Well Herman Cain’s camp doesn’t appear to be confused as to who leaked this info, Rick Perry.
What a surprise.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Anyone who leaked this is a scumbag.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:24 pm
54. (sigh) caught off guard, again. It’s getting to the point where I can’t recognize humor unless accompanied by a smiley face!
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:24 pm
It’s a matter of personal perception but I honestly don’t think so. Mitt told separate heartfelt stories supporting BOTH his belief that he’d never waiver on a woman’s ‘right to choose’ and his conversion to the pro-life cause.
I didn’t see any sense of shame at all.
When he went after Giuliani on sanctuary cities after having the EXACT SAME POLICY in Mass. for 3 years and 11 months of his four year term, that was masterfully disingenuous pandering.
I’d rather lose than “win” with a guy like that.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:26 pm
This may have been brought up before here, but I just wanted to tell you guys about a thought that I had. First of all I have listened to Mr. Cain on the radio for a few years now. I have actually met him at a Fair Tax rally and I think he is a stand up guy and can’t see him actually sexually harassing anyone. So, I asked my wife (who is white and for the most part avoids politics and has not been following this story and is honestly more concerned with Vampire Diaries) if a black man were to call you or any white woman “honey” or something similar, would you be more likely to take offense to it or find it inappropriate. Her response was yes. My wife is not racist and has never made any racist comments, but she says that just how herself and most of her friends react to such a situation. I think that whats going on here may be a similar situation, especially with the Steve Deace accusations.
What are your thoughts?
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:26 pm
I don’t think it’s too soon to think about Cain calling it quits. What’s the point of continuing? Nobody is going to care about 9-9-9. Nobody is going to think he’s cute. Great honk! So fast and so final came Cain’s fall!
He’s really just done, just like that! Unbelievable.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:26 pm
54. The sad thing is, a post like that is not too far off of attacks that many are taking very, very seriously.
People rushing to judgement. “Oh, we have THREE accusers! That’s PROOF he did it.”
At this point we still don’t know what he did. And, the radio show guy’s comments are just silly to me. Comments about looking pretty? That’s in the same league as groping a woman or telling her if she doesn’t sleep with you you’ll get her fired?
This isn’t right.
BUT, I’m still very shocked at Cain’s bungling of the responses.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Sojourner Truth,
Gingrich was never pro-choice? Ah Sojourner, I think you’ll be amused by the Gingrich vetting, when it comes. Where was Newt in the 70s and 80s, on a whole host of issues. Yes, I think you will be amused. I wish I still had access to things like Lexis Nexus. In ’08, when I was researching candidates and potential candidates, I read a lot about Gingrich’s early political career. Let’s just say the man was…quite malleable. Do the digging if you can find articles from that era. Something I’ve been able to find right now, after a few minutes of searching- Gingrich, in ’95, was accused by Republicans of spouting the Clinton line on abortion- that it ought to be safe legal and rare- and he fought to stop pro-life amendments during the early stages of the Contract for America. Yes, do some digging on Newt’s contortions. I’m sure we’ll see this stuff coming out in force if Newt actually does go anywhere.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Bummer. I like Cain. He still polls well. Let’s hear the wife speak.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Now let’s get back to Perry’s drinking problem.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:29 pm
I just hope Perry doesn’t turn his money and his guns toward Newt.
Newt may be able to squeak out a win against Mitt in South Carolina with Perry still in the race, but Newt will need every Southerner out of the race to defeat Mitt when the show comes into the Sunshine State.
I hope Perry continunes to use his resources to go after Mitt.
Perry is the wild card in this race.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:31 pm
60. Multiple accusations, over multiple timeframes from multiple camps and no camps.
We left nuance and racism behind a couple of hours ago.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:32 pm
59. Your example of abortion doesn’t work IF his conversion was a real one. The other poster was suggesting that Mitt has a hard time voicing positions on which he doesn’t really agree. You said you didn’t notice any discomfort when he told the conflicting stories on abortion. I suggest it’s possible that the reason is because it was a true conversion.
I don’t know the details over the Guiliani sanctuary city thing.
Can you clarify?
Mitt attacked Guiliani for BEING a sanctuary? OR, for SUPPORTING them?
And, you’re saying MA is a sanctuary city? In what ways?
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:32 pm
66 – I think Perry has far more personal animosity against Mitt.
And with good reason…
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:32 pm
69. DANG IT, SoJo! I’m going to have nightmares if we keep agreeing on stuff!
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:34 pm
69.
I hope Perry bring it to Mitt. If you think Romney is going to sit back and take it and not fire back with the tons of information on Perry’s sleazy pay-to-play tactics you are living in dream land.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Politico.com
“Herman Cain told a meeting of Georgia House Republicans Wednesday that a report was coming out that would vindicate him of the sexual harassment charges that have engulfed his campaign, POLITICO has learned.
In a meeting at the Capitol Hill Club, Cain said he and his campaign had found out who was purportedly leaking word of his behavior toward female employees at the National Restaurant Association and that a report was coming out that would disprove the charges, according to the chief of staff to one of the Georgia members.
Cain boasted about how one must stand firm when they’ve done nothing wrong and that all will right itself.”
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Where does Huntsman fit on the awful/flawed spectrum. He would probably be better than Newt and have less baggage.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Newt is an establishment, long-term politician. He does’t hold a candle to Romney in terms of really turning this economy around. He practially idolizes Romney anyways. He’ll be another guy that will serve to keep Perry down.
Welcome to Rick Perry politics, Herman Cain. He started the whisper campaign that you were only in this to help Romney, and now he has taken you out. Newt Gingrich, your next.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:39 pm
68 – Mitt attacked Giuliani for NYC being a “sanctuary city” but didn’t do anything for almost the entire time he was governor on sanctuary cities in Massachusetts.\
In short, he was playing “holier than thou.”
From the reputable factcheck.org,
More,
Romney’s ad began airing Nov. 1 and has run in Iowa and New Hampshire.
Cops on the Case
Romney claims he put state troopers on the trail of illegals in his state.
Romney: As governor, I authorized the state police to enforce immigration laws.
Well, yes. But, as we noted in August, he didn’t do so until he had less than a month left in his term. He was already considering running for president, and the new governor-elect was expected to rescind the arrangement.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Link for the ABC News story (because this site only allows one link without a moderation blackout period) is here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3459498&page=1
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Multiple sources, multiple timeframes, poorly/unstraightforwardly handled. This is not a leak, it’s a fatal gaping hole, no way to plug it, only thing to do is sink, hard and fast. I will be shocked if Herman Cain is a candidate still this time a week from now.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:43 pm
The curse of the Craig. It is the stuff of legends now. It has perpetrated two of the most catastropic collapses in political history, and at this point the Romney fans are just quietly pleading for him not to endorse their guy.
I knew yesterday that the Cain thing was just beginning. There was no way the media was going to let it die, and the fact that there is in fact some substance to it makes it that much worse.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:43 pm
On Sunday I said anyone who defended Pervert Cain would end up looking as foolish as liberals who defended Bill Clinton and Anthony Weiner.
The conservatives who played the race and defended Pervert Cain have done nothing but embarrass themselves.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Perry’s just getting revenge against Cain for hammering the slur on his hunting camp name. It all makes sense now. Perry’s not going to let a “black man” push him around like that.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:44 pm
jarvis,
I don’t know about Huntsman. The guy seems disconnected from reality. I’m inclined to think someone so seemingly delusional would perform poorly on the world stage and probably end up frequently rolled by Congress. But yeah, he’s not manifestly unqualified/braindead. But I tend to forget Huntsman’s in the race. Buddy Roemer might make a decent President, for all I know, but it’s not really useful to speculate on him. Ditto Huntsman. When I talk about the rest of the field as “clowns” or “awful” I’m referring to semi-plausible nominees (Perry, Cain, Newt, and MAYBE Bachmann).
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:45 pm
“Mitt attacked Giuliani for NYC being a “sanctuary city” but didn’t do anything for almost the entire time he was governor on sanctuary cities in Massachusetts.”
Such as….?
What do you expect Romney to have done, with his hands tied by an 80% Democratic Massachusetts legislature?
Did Mitt introduce an AZ-type law? No, and perhaps thats a fault of his. But he didn’t roll out a welcome mat ala Giuliani or Perry.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Cain is gone, thanks to Perry. Sojourner, how does it feel to see your main squeeze, Perry, take out Cain in such a dirty way?
Sojourner, don’t tell me you’re really latching onto Gingrich, the establishment, red-tape, career politician with a serial adulterer past.
It’s more than just politics for you. Hey, I am not even mormon, and I think I can spot somebody with a religious chip on their shoulder.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:46 pm
Huntsman’s problem is that he seems to want to be thought of as “reasonable” by the center and left and media types MORE than he wants to be the Republican nominee.
Huntsman doesn’t really have an ideological problem. It’s all about tone.
He picked the wrong year to thumb his nose at the GOP base and hit that they’re a bunch of neanderthals.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:46 pm
Pervert Cain loses temper and screams at reporters
Pervert Cain Lashes Out at Reporters: “Don’t Even Bother Asking Me All Of These Questions”
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:47 pm
How about simply to NOT USE THAT as a basis of attack on Giuliani when his record was no better than Giuliani’s?
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:47 pm
83,
It’s not dirty as much as it’s just stupid. Like most of the Perry campaign has been.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:48 pm
Perry said a few days ago that he was going to go full on negative, or something like that. And we all thought he meant Romney. But now we know he meant Cain.
I actually think this is information that should have come out and that it would have been a real disaster if this had come out later if Cain was on the ticket.
And pretending it is not important will do no one any good at all. It is important.
And so are Newt’s affairs, and his propensity to have affairs. Having skeletons in the closet are a very dangerous thing for the country.
Cain says there is a report that will exonerate him. We shall see. But it seems it was very recently that a radio station in Iowa had unhappy female employees after a Cain visit, so the behavior has not stopped. At least some behavior has not stopped.
I think Perry would be better served by claiming to have brought this to the country’s attention than to deny it. Two people working for the Perry campaign have spoken out. They might not be the original source but they back up the source.
I don’t know why this is a problem for the messenger. Politico was doing it’s job, and these were settlements over something that should be explained.
If there were no charges and just rumours that would be gossip. But there were settlements.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Pervert Cain campaign in desperation mode, blaming Rick Perry for Pervert Cain’s immoral conduct
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Look – Mitt could attack away, for all I care, on Gingrich’s infidelity (not that it would be politically wise to do so, but I’m talking about on principle). Mitt, for all of his faults, is a good family man.
What really irks me is when Romney attacks someone else on a given subject, when Romney’s own record is checkered at best.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:49 pm
“How about simply to NOT USE THAT as a basis of attack on Giuliani when his record was no better than Giuliani’s?”
Romney threw out the welcome mat for illegals, did he? Yeah, it would have been nice if Romney had been harsher for illegals, but at least he didn’t actively dictate policies which encouraged them to come and stay here.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:49 pm
35…This is exactly the point so many people are missing. All of those running for the nomination are below average. Romney is the best of the bunch but definately not at the top of my list of who I wanted to run. Matthew E Miller…thank you.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:51 pm
If there was a $35,000 agreement that the accuser would have to pay back if they broke the non disclosure agreement then why hasn’t a news outlet offered to accuser a large sum for breaking her silence. It sounds like the AP report from earlier today is true, that the accuser does not want to come forward.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Sojouner all your arguements are so small of things. The fact that you think they say something about Romney is very telling.
You have a problem.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:52 pm
91 – He just DIDN’T CARE if they stayed until he thought he could change course just as his term was ending to score cheap political points against Giuliani, hoping no one would notice his own record wasn’t too good.
For the supposedly moral Romney, that’s just plain dirty.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Lolz the end of caindom is here. The hilarious thing is most of these voters won’t go back to Perry and Romney only needs a few here and there after each Flavor of the Month goes down in flames.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:53 pm
94 – In other words, you can’t refute it and you still think Romney is the awesomest candidate ever.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:53 pm
90 But you could care less that others do it.
How about Newt going after Romney on the mandate? You have a complete double standard when it comes to Romney.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:53 pm
35,92:
Agreed, and so it is just picking the best of the worst at this point. It is not desirable, but at some point practicality must win out. The context of the times we live in creates a situation where you do what you need to do even if it’s something you really don’t want to do.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Sojourner,
Huntsman’s problem is John Weaver, a man who has proven himself such a spectacular failure he should never be allowed to work in politics again. You’re right- Huntsman isn’t really any farther to the left than Pawlenty was. But the way he’s run his campaign, you’d think he was the love child of Christie Todd Whitman and Nelson Rockefeller. A particularly stupid love child. It’s really amusing and unexplicable. Why, when Huntsman admitted that he would have voted for the Ryan plan, didn’t he actually EMBRACE the Ryan plan? That was an introduction right? If you’re a guy who the base is inclined to see suspiciously, and you’ve already decided to sort of back a conservative hero, why not go whole hog? He has a great tax plan- I think obviously the best tax plan in the field. And if he’d decided to lead with a Ryan-esque entitlement reform platform, instead of this childish and inane “I’m the only intelligent and refined Republican in the race” stuff, he’d be in an infinitely better position.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:54 pm
98 – Did Newt enact the mandate? Is Newt’s nomination going to allow Obama to say, “Thanks for implementing the beta version of MY plan?”
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Sojourner,
Newt can’t enact anything, being that he hasn’t had a job in more than a decade. But he certainly tried to enact a mandate, in the 90s.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:59 pm
101
No, Newt’s nomination will allow Obama to say “hey Callista, don’t get sick or Newt will run off with your sister”.
November 2nd, 2011 at 5:59 pm
100 – The only thing I can guess is that Huntsman and his campaign concluded (probably correctly) that Obama’s ambassador to China was NEVER going to be acceptable to Republican primary voters in Iowa and South Carolina. That being the case, he may have thought they he would somehow have to get to Romney’s left, possibly by exploiting the climate change tightrope act Romney would need to undertake in order to please both the center and the right.
For me, the only way his behavior makes sense is if he thought right from the get go that he would NEVER be able to consolidate conservative support. And maybe that’s why he held the Ryan plan at arms length, hoping he could somehow take NH away from Mitt and follow the McCain/blue state path to the nomination.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:00 pm
So now the base will back Nancy Pelosi’s favorite climate change republican, Newt Gingrich? Sorry George Will, but it’s the Tea Party turning into a pretzel in trying any which way to oppose Romney.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:00 pm
102 – I know. That was the same time Mitt told John Judis he would support John Chafee’s bill with the national mandate.
The difference is that Mitt signed the bill into law in 2006.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:00 pm
75. Okay. In 2008 Romney ran on illegal immigration and took an unfair swipe at Giuliani.
We are appropriately repulsed. Politics!!! Not Romney’s finest hour!!!
Why am I having a hard time reaching righteous indignation here?
Usually I can pinch my face real hard and focus on the unfairness of it all . . .
But in this case, not really so much. Didn’t Giuliani campaign real hard in Florida instead of NH? Did Rudy take the easy way instead of slogging it out with everyone else in NH in the Winter? Why am I having such a hard time feeling sympathy for a politician who felt unfairly characterized by an opponent in a political race?
Why is this such a big deal to you? I’ll answer: you really don’t have all that much to go on in the first place, and this is what you’ve got, and Romney isn’t your idea of a great time when it comes to politicians, so you characterize him unfairly . . . and here we go again.
You had no problem embracing Perry. Perry’s book falsely claims Romney wouldn’t let Boy Scouts participate in the Olympics because of gays or something. Why didn’t that twist you up in wad?
Selective indignation. I have that problem too!
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:02 pm
105 – That’s true. Doesn’t that concern you?
Look at the lengths the Tea Partiers are going to oppose this guy.
That tells me that uniting and singing Kumbaya if Romney gets the nomination isn’t too likely…
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:05 pm
108
No, it just means that kumbaya will come after the ditto heads get their marching orders and Rush gives another “Romney = Reagan’s 3-legged stool” screed like he did in 2008.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:06 pm
108
Obama hate outweighs Romney distrust by a ton. We will be united against Obama, no doubt about it.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:07 pm
The right in this country is just as degenerate as the left.
Pervert Cain: “I believe that race is a bigger driving factor”
Debbie Dooley, a leader of Atlanta Tea Party Patriots: “I think the left is totally and completely terrified of a conservative black man coming to power and prominence”
Ann Coulter: “It’s outrageous the way liberals treat a black conservative”
Rush Limbaugh: “Look at how quickly what is known as the mainstream media goes for the ugliest racial stereotypes they can to attack a black conservative.”
Brent Bozell: “Stop the High-tech Lynching of Herman Cain”
Pervert Cain: “I have never sexually harassed anyone.”
Bill Clinton: “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time, never.”
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:07 pm
The simple reality is, Rombot or not, no matter which candidate we nominate, there is a better than even chance that we’re going to lose.
Even with unemployment above 9 percent and Obama at 40 percent approval.
Republican Party is just pathetic.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Paul Ryan all but endorsed Mitt in an article I read today.
All true conservatives know that Mitt Romney is a true conservative and the rest are the passing fad.
Mitt Romney is the best thing that could happen to the country.
Oh yeah, Issa endorsed Romney a while and and today he continued to speak very highly of him and to point out that Rick Perry merely stole jobs from California so that any Texas jobs were off set by the loss in CA. That is not job creation. Issa… not me.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Matthew,
Interesting stuff on Newt having played with being pro-choice, I had never heard about that. What you say about him being a better liar than Mitt definitely fits with his family record. Personally I think Mitt’s inconsistencies may come from core intellectual ambiguity on certain social issues. I’ll take intellectual ambiguity on political issues over personal moral ambiguity.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:09 pm
We’ll see. When the Democrats and the unions remind conservatives about every Romney lurch to the left and when those same Democrats and unions remind suburban women of every time Romney had to pander in 2008 to make up for his ideological shortcomings, THEN we’ll see how united the GOP is…
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:10 pm
112
No. Sojourner. Romney will win. Only Romney can win. It is only you weird Romney haters who can’t see that. Romney is a perfect General candidate. He doesn’t need you past the Primary. All the disillusioned Hillary voters will vote for Romney. It will be a landslide.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:10 pm
109 – In 2008, Limbaugh instructed the “Dittoheads” to vote for McCain too after he spent the entire primary season bashing him.
Let’s just say the enthusiasm never materialized.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:11 pm
108 – There may be a large part of the tea party movement that does not want Romney. There are others within the tea party that do view Romney as acceptable. The problem is what M E M brought up. This is a lousy bunch of candidates. Romney is the best of them with a legitimate shot at beating Obama. I hate that there isn’t a better choice. Ryan, Rubio, etc. would have been so much more exciting. We have to play the cards we are dealt and Romney is the best of the bunch.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:11 pm
115
Right tried the same thing with Clinton in 1992. The oppo research against the Arkansas governor dwarfed the hits on Mitt, but it didn’t matter. A tiny recession put him in the White House. Obama is GHWB, he can’t avoid it.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Geez. That sounds SOOOOO familiar…
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:12 pm
108. I’m going to say this so it’s out there, even though I’ve said it earlier today on another thread:
If Romney thinks he can win the nomination by offering the Party nothing more than amazing intellectual flexibility and an impressive work ethic that could also double as ambition gone wild, he’s nuts.
Tomorrow he is starting to map out his ideas on budgets. I’m a total Rombot, as anyone who reads these things knows, but as of tomorrow, if he isn’t going to take risks, if he isn’t going to be bold, if he isn’t going to lead, I’m going to get very, very snarky at his expense.
I’m talking viciously snarky. (Hey, it’s the best a blogger can do!) The time to lead is now. Every other candidate has focused on the tax side of the house. That leaves the budget side of the equation wide open. He can own that issue and I think he wants to. If he doesn’t, I’m gong off on him.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:13 pm
119 – Whites made up 87 percent of the vote in 1992. The GOP candidate will be lucky if its 73 percent next year.
Republicans are reaching the point where they can’t win UNLESS the Dems are demoralized and the entire GOP base is fired up.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:13 pm
117
Romney will have 4-5 times as much money as McCain, an entirely different environment, no Bush anchor around his neck, and a GOP base that is far more enthusiastic than the Democrat base by wide margins, a big reversal from 2008.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:15 pm
Pervert Cain on Monday
Fox anchor: “Are we going to hear about any other allegations in the future? Are there more allegations to come like this?”
Pervert Cain: “Absolutely not.”
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:16 pm
123 – I disagree that the GOP will warm to Romney. You pointed out yourself, it hasn’t happened yet.
Romney had plenty of money in 2008 and he still got nowhere. And if money matters, Obama will have more than Romney.
I’ll admit – I don’t want Romney to win, but objectively, I really see the GOP chances as somewhere south of 50 percent.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:16 pm
122
Well it’s a good thing that Obama has the worst numbers among whites of any incumbent President at this point…ever. His support is also down among blacks, latinos, young voters.
Look at OWS, you think those kids are going to knock on doors for Obama this time while he drinks wine at Goldman Sachs fundraisers? Not a chance.
The polls in New Hampshire, Maine, Penn, and Conn are pretty striking, college-educated whites are ditching Obama big time, putting some safe blue states in major danger.
Obama is in much bigger trouble than you realize.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:17 pm
[...] Cain’s own campaign is blaming an advisor to Rick Perry for leaking the story. Furthermore, a pollster for one of Rick Perry’s Super PACs is pouring fuel on the fire in an effort to end Cain’s campaign. Rush’s listeners should be outraged that Mr. [...]
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:18 pm
125
Obama had $750m McCain had $85m. That kind of gap won’t exist against Mitt, and it’s hard to tell if Obama can compete without such a one-sided advantage and the wind at his back.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:18 pm
Don’t know if there’s anything to this…but I can’t think of a more opportune time for her…
http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/breaking-sources-tell-dr-gina-louden-sarah-palin-is-reconsidering-a-presidential-run/
Later Dr Gina had talk show host Lee Davis, her source, on to talk about all of this.
Again, this is not to say Sarah Palin will run for President, only that she is reconsidering. Lee Davis’ source is someone close to Sarah’s organization, and the Palin family. Obviously, no one is disclosing the source, but Davis says they are credible.
Obviously, if Sarah were to re-enter the race, she would face a hard battle, but unlike any other, she’s proven time and time again that these are exactly the kind of battles she can win.
Some filing deadlines have passed, each state has their own, but there is still time. New Hampshire’s deadline has passed, for example, but Iowa has none. All of the people are still in place in Iowa to make a strong showing for her, and possibly a win.
As a recent USA Today report suggests, Iowa is wide open, and there is no clear favorite. As well received as Sarah has been every time she has been in the state, I have no doubt she would be a player should she decide to run.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:18 pm
124 – Don’t you think you ought to wait to see how things play out before you start with the “pervert Cain” garbage? I will say it doesn’t look good but it is better to hold off judgement until all of the FACTS are known.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:19 pm
#75- Romney was only Governor for 4 years in a discustingly liberal Government! Not to mention Kennedy, Kerry and Barney Frank. You should try to get conservative issues passed. He tried to allow citizens to vote against Gay Marriage, but the liberals stalled. He did send the Troopers to illegal immigrant round up training, but of course Gov. Patrick came in and overturned it and lastley he did stop illegals from getting in state tuition. Which Patrick also overturned… Illegals illegally get healthcare in Mass, by getting social security #’s to claim residency or they just lie. If the troopers had been allowed to arrest them, the illegals would not be around to get the healthcare. Again, you try getting Republican issues passed in 4 years in Mass. At least as President, Romney would have the House to back him up.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:19 pm
125
There is also a very probable chance that Mitt will thrash Obama in all 3 debates, rendering the incumbent D.O.A. on election day.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:20 pm
When the entire Democrat apparatus targets Romney as a CEO Wall Street fat cat, maybe they will.
Look, Bush led in state polls in 2004. It’s early yet. Romney hasn’t had to run as a conservative in the way that Perry or Bachmann has because he’s not seeking the votes of the far right because he knows he’ll never get them. But he WILL need their help in the primary.
And at the end of the day, when the SEIU and AFSCME and co. all remind those suburban women that Romney wants to force them into back alleys for abortions (because hey, at the end of the day he’s still a Republican, however moderate)….what do you think happens to those numbers in CT, ME, PA.
I’ll tell you what. The same thing that happens to every Republican in every presidential general election.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:21 pm
Sorry – he WILL need their help in the *general election*. Romney won’t get the votes of the far right in the primaries.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:23 pm
I think it’s fair to say Perry can’t debate, even he admits that he has a problem. Cain has several sexual harassment accusations, has made several gaffes and knows virtually nothing about foreign relations. Gingrich had 2 affairs. Ron Paul is a libertarian, and nobody else has been able to get their campaign off the ground.
Romney was a wildly successful businessman, is by far the most intelligent and prepared candidate, and actually beats Obama in some of the polls. Romney’s taken a lot of heat from the liberal press and so called conservatives alike who parrot the liberal press, but I’ve looked at his record and would match it against anyone’s record. His biggest “flaw” is that he’s too smart to pick up on the rhetoric that uninformed conservatives like to hear which pushes people away instead of convincing them. Romney may not be the magical candidate you expected, but the others who people though were that magical candidate fell far shorter.
Romney will be a great president, and it’s time for people who aren’t really backing Obama to begin to come together and accept Romney.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:24 pm
133
It’s going to be ugly, for sure. But Romney didn’t get to be a success by being a kitten. He’s a shark. We’ll hit Obama back twice as hard regardless of what they throw at us. It’s going to be WW3, but I like our chances defending Mitt’s business career more than defending Perry’s brain power (or lack there of) .
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Without the republican base, no republican is going to win.
I’m not certain Romney can do that, even if he picks a very conservative running mate.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:25 pm
124 – Don’t you think you ought to wait to see how things play out before you start with the “pervert Cain” garbage? I will say it doesn’t look good but it is better to hold off judgement until all of the FACTS are known.
The accusations continue to multiply, confirmed by numerous independent sources and witnesses. Pervert Cain has lied repeatedly over the last few days. Now he is yelling at reporters and refusing to answer questions. Pervert Cain is guilty as charged.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:25 pm
134
I think we’re looking at a Romney/McDonnell ticket, with the Virginia guv’s 09 campaign as the model of what we’ll see waged in swing states across the country.
jobs trump flip flops.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:26 pm
133. I agree with you, but only to a point. If the number one issue is the economy, and if swing voters vote that way, Romney has a very good chance of winning. Events in Europe this week would suggest, and the downward revision of GDP today would also suggest that the economic crisis we’re in is steadily getting worse.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:28 pm
131 That’s the thing, Romney gets judged not by what his ideas where, and what he supported, but by how conservative his home state is. You can look up what Romney supported, what he tried to get past, what he vetoed and such, but people would rather criticize him for others actions because it’s easier.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:29 pm
138 – It is a significant problem that there’s been an outside confirmation of Cains actions. Only one that I know about.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:31 pm
112, I pretty much agree with you, though for different reasons. I think the GOP has a decent shot at losing because so much of our media and some of our leaders have decided that, during a time of great populist angst, an inspiring message is: “Save the Rich from Obama and the threat of tax-hikes,” with variations of “Save the rich from that Socialist trying to rasie their taxes” Romney’s been smart enough to distance himself from this sentiment, but a 24/7 conservative media is going to project that image onto any of candidates.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:32 pm
111 You left off Mike Gallagher. I was embarrassed by the kind of racist remarks he was making today.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:32 pm
And at this point, we don’t what he was supposed to have said or done, what words were spoken.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:36 pm
75. I may have to concede that one since I can’t find details on it.
The best defense (and it’s a weak one) I can think of is
* There’s a difference between a mayor who CREATES a sanctuary city and a governor who fails to PUNISH an existing one.
* Also, do we really know the facts as to why Mitt’s enforcement order was delayed? I know your theory is that its’ because he’s not serious about it and only wanted it on his resume’ but it’s possible there were other obstacles that got in the way. I honestly don’t know, so I’m not making a claim here.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Sojo: “He just DIDN’T CARE if they stayed until he thought he could change course just as his term was ending to score cheap political points against Giuliani, hoping no one would notice his own record wasn’t too good.”
The point people are making is that while Romney may have done less than he could have (perhaps much less) regarding illegal immigration, Rudy full-out stated that he would not go after illegals. Rudy himself created much of the sanctuary state that exists in NYC. A guy that does nothing is still reasonable when he critiques someone for doing bad.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:43 pm
86. I still confess that my argument is a bit weak, but in reasonableness, you have to admit that giving a speech and saying:
Is quite a bit more pro-immigration than a governor not attacking just 3 cities in his state.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Why do front page posters with a stated preferred candidate get to write posts casting other candidates in a negative light?
I saw the title and immediately new who the author was.
Coulter is a poor man’s Jennifer Rubin, a self designated wet blanket for all things not Romney
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:45 pm
This is ridiculous. Anonymous accusers?? So we’re to turn on Cain because a third person accuses him without revealing their identity; oh it’s not like they could have any other motive than to set the record straight…and they waited till now to do it–very convenient.
I’m convinced someone in the Perry camp is behind this. First they try to push Bachmann out of the race by calling on her to quit and now they’ve resorted to a character assasination of Cain. Steve Deace is a fanatic and I find it interesting that he’s only waiting till now to come out with this–right when it’ll help his buddy Perry.
I hope Romney, Cain, or Santorum shows Rush/Deace inc. that they no longer have strong influence in the party.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:48 pm
No far right candidate can win an election in America.
The only people who can win run in the middle.
Like Obama did.
Like Romney is doing.
Romney is pushing Obama left. That is smart.
There is a whole election going on that most righties don’t even see yet, because they are so focused on the non-candidates. That’s fine, Romney has to earn it, and he will unless the Rush Limbaugh types commit sucide to keep him out.
But Romney is cornering Obama and making it so he can not re-claim the middle.
Romney has a plan. And it will work, unless he is so destroyed by the right that really seems to prefer Obama.
In fact, assuming Romney pulls out the nomination… does it hurt him or help him that Erick Ericksen calls him Obama light? Does it help Romney or hurt Romney when the right concedes his business accumen but says he is too liberal?
The middle is looking for exactly who Erick Ericksen says Romney is.
Romney is every bit as conservative as Erick Ericksen, in fact I bet by the time Ericksen is the age Romney is now, he has switch positions more than Romney ever has. Because the “conservatives” seem to chase every shadow. It is quite ridiculus.
And the base is with Romney. I am the base. 25% of us, who are solidly behind Romney, are the base!!!
The rest of you are floaters looking for El Dorado.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Steve Deace is on record to Politico that Herman Cain made “awkward” and “inappropriate” comments to two women who work for him:
Deace going on the record is huge. Cain is done in Iowa as a result of this.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:57 pm
148 – Mitt also favored a “path to citizenship” according to the Lowell Sun on March 30, 2006.
I don’t have access to the actual article but there are multiple references to it in a Google sarch.
The point is that I think its six in one and half a dozen in the other. But Romney rased the issue after he tried during the final weeks of his campaign to beef up his resume after not bothering to do anything for 98 percent of his term. That seems slimey to me.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:59 pm
101. So, your argument is that since Newt had an idea that he really liked but never had a chance to implement indicates that he’s more conservative on that idea than Mitt is?
Your argument is that because Obama bastardized Mitt’s plan in ways it was never intended and gave Mitt credit for it that makes Mitt’s plan (based on Newt’s idea that Newt never had a chance to implement) less conservative?
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:05 pm
I am now regretting my earlier, Shermanesque statement.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:06 pm
Deace is a slime ball, I hope The Hermanator unloads on him.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:06 pm
154 – I’m saying that it’s awfully tough to capitalize on opposition to the mandate when our guy is the one who implemented one in the first place.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:08 pm
153. A path to citizenship is the only practical solution. Do you see a practical way to round everyone up and ship them home? Or jail them?
Mitt has said they should be put on a path to citizenship but NOT be given preferential treatment or timeliness over those trying to get in the legal way.
My personal preference would be that these guys broke the law to get here and yes we should round them all up and ship them home.
But, I don’t see a practical way to DO that, let alone PASS it.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:09 pm
157
Things aren’t that nuanced. It’s fed takeover vs state plan. States rights poll well, fed takeovers poll poorly. You guys thread the needle too much on how ObamaCare will play in the general. It’s not the top issue, so the nuances will fade away even more.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Matt.155,
Which statement was that?
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:10 pm
In the entire history of suck, has there ever been a field of candidates suckier than this one?
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:12 pm
marK,
Earlier this year, I categorically rejected any attempt to run for President. I firmly stated that I will not seek, nor accept, the Republican nomination for President of the United States.
So at this point, unless the Democrats nominate me in a rogue convention, the country’s doomed.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:13 pm
153
Again, I don’t know the answer to this, but do YOU really know that he did NOTHING on immigration during his 4 years? Or, just nothing on sanctuary cities and that enforcement issue?
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:15 pm
157, I don’t think the big problem with ObamaCare is the mandate. There are a ton of features in there that make it horrible.
And, even if the mandate IS a big issue, I think it’s not the same as having one at the state level.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:17 pm
161
88, 92, 96, 00
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:17 pm
161. Well, when you look at how candidates are treated, you can’t really blame someone for not wanting to subject themselves and their families to it.
In some ways, it’s amazing ANYONE’s willing to run.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:18 pm
>>“He just DIDN’T CARE if they stayed until he thought he could change course just as his term was ending to score cheap political points against Giuliani, hoping no one would notice his own record wasn’t too good.”
Romney was one of the first governors in the country to have his state police train with ICE agents to learn how to partner with the Feds when the suspected they had an illegal alien.
Romney vetoed in-state tuition for illegals.
Romney supported and instituted English immersion in public schools forcing English to be the universal language.
You really have no clue what it is like to be a Republican governor in MA. MA is not Texas and yet in Texas, they refuse to have the state police work with the Feds. Perry bashed the Arizona law which allowed Arizona police to check on immigration status as part of any traffic stop or other lawful police action. Perry supported in-state tuition for illegals and think that anyone who doesn’t is heartless. Presumably, he will take this policy to DC since he still believes it. And Perry did nothing about sanctuary cities which are much more prominent in Texas.
You just hate Romney and are desperate to find so reason to back up your feelings. Kind of lame.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Teledude….do tell us, How does the esteemed Mrs. Palin win, when the deadline for filing in New Hampshire has passed, and the deadlines for 5 other states is next week? She is so desperate for air time, that she goes to this well again? I didnt have much respect left for her, but its all gone now, if she really is talking about this.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:23 pm
167. Thanks for that. I didn’t have all that info.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:25 pm
Sounds like the despicable accusations against Romney that we saw earlier from Adam Graham and that scumbag Eric Erickson were a little premature. I think Adam owes us all an apology for his crap.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:32 pm
170.
I can’t believe anyone thought this was anyone but Perry. Not only is he the obvious one to benefit from Cain going down at the same time Romney is hurt by it, this is what Perry does. This is what Perry always does.
And in case people still haven’t noticed, not only was Chris Wilson, the guy who went on the radio today to say he witnessed Cain’s harassment, on one of Perry’s Super PACs, he was a pollster for Perry in his last gubernatorial races and he is a blogger at Redstate.
And people wonder why Redstate has been so eager to slime Romney and his supporters?
These aren’t dots that need to be connected, it’s a bright neon arrow.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:33 pm
170. I don’t feel Adam accused. He reported on someone else’s hinting accusation. While he may have had ulterior motives, it’s still reporting and the info is valuable to us. i.e. I like to know when Romney’s being accused of stuff.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:38 pm
172 – he worded it with a bit of CYA but come on…it was about as subtle as the infamous “innocent” religion question from 2008.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:39 pm
I can’t stand Perry or his campaign, but they probably did the GOP a favor by getting this out before we nominated Cain and Team Obama leaked this stuff a month before the general election.
I guess Cain really was only in this for the book sales and the speaking fees…..he never thought he’d catch fire and then take fire.
Either that, or senility is setting in…
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:41 pm
I don’t like Deace at all but I still believe he is telling the truth. I also believe if these allegations were about Perry he would have kept his mouth shut.
Deace just like Romney knows that Cain never had any staying power to begin with. All Cain can do is split enough of the conservative vote to let Romney win. Deace is motivated to prevent Romney from winning. Getting Cain out of the race helps prevent Romney from winning.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:48 pm
175.
The thought of Rick Perry having to debate Obama and being exposed to a national audience ought to scare the hell out of anyone who wants Obama out of the White House. This isn’t Texas where they seem to like their politicians to speak in monosyllables and make cute gestures. He would be destroyed.
This has become less about winning and more about hurting Romney at all costs.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:51 pm
SoJo’s refusal to respond to 63 tells you everything you need to know about him. He had his ass handed to him by MEM with regard to Newt and abortion and he completely ignores it. All his arguments against Romney can be used against Newt times ten, yet he continues to trash Romney. Why? There must be something beyond his incredibly flawed and superficial arguments.
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:52 pm
Max,
“88, 92, 96, 00″
92 and 96 had Buchanan, so they were awesome in my book. ’88 wasn’t as bad as this, having at least a few legit options in Bush, Dole, du Pont, and Kemp. ’00 sucked, but not as bad as this.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:00 pm
All of the potential winners have major personal flaws:
Cain – Just generally a mess
Perry – Can’t debate, background riddled with cronyism
Gingrich – Serial adulterer, just a general scummy politician
Romney – Mormonism
The saddest thing is how many people are willing to overlook the deep personal flaws of Cain, Perry, and Gingrich because of Mitt’s Mormonism. Very sad comment on the state of the Republican Party right now.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:03 pm
172 – He absolutely did.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:03 pm
177. Even Paul Ryan met with Romney a few days ago and came away saying he feels Romney gets it on entitlements and that he was confident Romney would repeal ObamaCare.
SoJo has never met Romney. I guess SoJo thinks he’s that much smarter than Paul Ryan.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:03 pm
172 – Read the comments if you aren’t sure about that.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:08 pm
174. Still no real evidence it was the Perry campaign — even if this guy is a pollster for them.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:09 pm
179,
That is not a flaw, no matter how many time the Romney people spin that as the “something” that holds America, no the world, back from falling at the feet of the Governor. Is it out there, yes. Is it as rampant as the commentary by some here would suggest, no. There is not a religious conspiracy to deny Romney the White House the same way there was not a racial conspiracy to deny Obama, though you heard about it all the time. There is a distrust among many about where Gov. Romney really stands on the issues that matter the most to them. They will get over that for the most part I think, because they won’t have a choice. He is the best option at this point for 2012.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:09 pm
hamaca,
Mitt did okay at my backyard barbecue a couple months ago, but he was a little dodgy, and ate his baby backs with a fork and knife.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:11 pm
179. After debating many of these guys for the past few weeks, I’m convinced that, at least on THIS site, Mormonism is not why the dislike Mitt.
They don’t trust him. They feel he’s shifted positions to look more conservative than he is and they are genuinely worried that if elected he’ll govern left of center.
I disagree, but at least for most of them, it’s an honest concern.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:11 pm
#78..Sojourner Truth…
You did know that Governors have no power over sanctuary cities don’t you? Governors can’t tell cities what to do.
Can’t believe you didn’t know that!
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:12 pm
185,
I enjoy your posts a lot. Maybe it because you’re not simply a sychophant but it’s probably because of the humor. I need to laugh. Because this is getting quite depressing!
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:13 pm
183 – All three of the people pushing this story, as outlined by this post, are Perry supporters or staffers.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:13 pm
Keith has it right in #186. Rombots who continue to hint at or overtly play the Mormon card are doing their side a disservice. People don’t like to have their motives impugned like that.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Of course this should have come out no matter which campaign it was. If it is the Perry campaign, good of them. This is not dirty, lying politics or a high tech lynching. This is true vetting.
If these allegations had been made against Obama, we would expect someone “to do their job” and make the information known. In fact, the right has been railing against Hillary, McCain and the MSM for being too fearful to actually vet Obama.
The fact that Cain calls this an “attack” and “a high tech lynching” tells you all you need to know about Cain. Dr. Rice is right; it’s wrong to place the race card here. It doesn’t have anything to do with skin color. It has everything to do with getting everything out on the table so voters can decide using a full deck.
If Cain drops and Newt rises, let them vetting of Newt begin. It’s what this process is all about.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:18 pm
186 – And yet when you counteract everything they say with examples of their own candidates bigger flaws, what do they do? Of course they aren’t going to say it. But when they are backing majorly flawed candidates over Romney with no coherent reason for it, you have to start asking yourself why.
The only one I respect as consistent is MWS.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:19 pm
190. That’s right. Especially scratchers of beards (their own).
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Keith,
You will never convince the endlessly paranoid of that. They are like Glenn Beck when it comes to that stuff. There is a reason Rush, the other talking heads, most of the Tea Party, etc. haven’t jumped on the Romney bandwagon. It can’t be the politics or (in Rush’s case) the money. It must be…..”something.”
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:21 pm
183.
I agree, but since when did evidence matter in politics? I’m serious. Perry has done this kind of thing his whole career. He just hired a new hit team that has widely been predicted to run a scorched Earth campaign.
Look what he did with the despicable Jefferrs thing. Oldest trick in the political book. Have one of your surrogates go out and say something incredibly damaging or that is a clear dog whistle to your base and then personally deny it. This is what Perry always does.
Cain isn’t fooled. There are numerous people on the Perry campaign who either worked at the NRA or with Cain in the past and knew all of this information. Hell, one of the people who Cain fingered today not only works on the Perry campaign he is also a contributor to Politico. And Perry desperately needed Cain to fold and fast.
You’d think Perry, as head of the Republican Governors Association, would have plenty of governors in his camp by now. He doesn’t. And Romney has not only Christie on his team but possibly the most popular governor in the country, Bob McDonnell, can’t wait to endorse Romney.
When enough things start falling in place, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure it out.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:21 pm
Matt “MWS”,
Did Mitt say anything about being a life-long barbecuer?
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:26 pm
#195 I believe Perry is the biggest jerk on the planet, but this case (if it is the Perry campaign), I give Perry a big hurrah. This info needed to come out; no way could Cain win the primary and have this come out in the general.
In fact, if it’s such a big nothing, Cain ought to have brought it out himself on his own terms. It could not have been any worse than what he has now.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:26 pm
186. I don’t disagree with your comment, especially regarding THIS site. Where certain Romnots on THIS site go wrong is to assume by extension that because THEY themselves do not factor Mitt’s religion into their assessment of him, no one else does either. And that is demonstrably false. Whether it is a large enough factor to have affected the outcome of any race, neither they nor Rombots know the answer.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:27 pm
#183…..Specificallly speaking, you are correct. Although this post quotes two folks from the Perry campaign, not one.
I guess I was sucked in by the RomNot logic that it had to be Romney, “because some ex-RNA guy donated $1,000 to Romney’s campaign,” and then low and behold here we have an ex-RNA guy working for Perry’s campaign plus another guy working for Perry’s campaign, and Perry had just hired the best dirty politics consultants in the country, and well, I just wasn’t watching my P’s and Q’s and sort of did a little circumstantial evidence leap.
But compared to the vaporous Grand Canyon super jumps the RomNots were going through yesterday, I guess I did pretty good
(PS. I’m really beginning to strongly dislike hardcore RomNots, they are proving to be and act no differently than hardcore liberals…”Who cares about the truth as long as we hope it helps our agenda.”)…
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:32 pm
#199 And Rush today mentioned the Romney contributor–and then added, kind of under his breath, that the NRA Romney contributor also contributed to Cain.
But as I said above, whoever leaked the story did voters a favor. However, there will be blow back onto the leaking campaign. It’s just the way things work, I guess. Kill the messenger if the message kills a “likeable” guy.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:33 pm
So when does Craig jump on the Newt bandwagon too? He is kind of in a bind. Religion is clearly a big deal for him (he has only backed evangelicals to this point). Does he go for the serial adultering protestant or the Catholic? Maybe he goes back to Perry.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:34 pm
#198 No, there’s no way to know, but we know it is a factor. Anti-Mormon voters have admitted it.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:35 pm
If you still have any doubt who leaked this, take a gander over to Redstate, aks Perry Central, and look at the fun they are having twisting the knife into someone who just yesterday was considered a good solid conservative.
I agree, this does not reflect well on Herman and while he was never my candidate, I do think he should have been more forthright about this.
But this new breed of conservatives who think there is no higher calling than destroying any other conservative in their way is not my conservative part of the party. Maybe I’m just getting old. I hate this crap and those who view it as noble.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:36 pm
#201…He could always get behind Palin…
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:36 pm
201 – Newt is also a Catholic, so his choice will come down to two Catholics or a retread he previously abandoned. If I were him, I’d go for Santorum because at least Craig can’t be blamed for him losing. On the other hand, I’m personally hoping Craig goes with Gingrich – just to make sure Gingrich doesn’t pull off some huge upset and win the thing.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:38 pm
204 – That’s true … Craig as a Palinite … that would be fun.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:39 pm
Rush, Levin and Red State have fashioned themselves as one man wrecking balls. I vote for Craig. Seven with one blow.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:41 pm
205 – That’s right … forgot that he converted.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:41 pm
#205…GetReal
I’m also hoping Baghdad Craig goes with Gingrich. I really want to see him twist himself all up to attack Romney on the mandate, his pro-life stance, any global warming nuances, etc., etc.
There’s just way too much stuff out there about Newt, but we all know that won’t stop Craigy, so it will be interesting to see to what height Craig can raise his level of hypocrasy…
Hurry Craig for Loser, the rats are abandoning the SS Cain and the Newt Express is leaving the station…He’s already blown past Cain on Intrade…
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:42 pm
201,
That is an interesting observation. The question of who he supports is only important to me because I want to be prepared for who I need to watch implode next. Gingrich? Perry, for the second time? Craig and the death of a campaign go hand in hand. If I were him and had the opinions that he does I would support Romney…it’s worth a shot
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:46 pm
The new found love for Newt confirms everything I ever thought about the RomNots. Every attack they make on Romney can be turned right back around and shoved in their faces, yet they make the attacks anyways. It’s almost like a mental disease.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:47 pm
There is a reason Newt has defended Romney on many of the attacks others have made at him. He knows he is just as vulnerable as Romney on all of it.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:48 pm
Yikes pathetic Red State says that now maybe it’s the Perry campaign behind this, it really isn’t important anymore and they really believe in their heart of hearts that “the preponderance of the evidence” points to Romney as the real perpetrator. Biased, anyone?
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:49 pm
Bigoted? Biased? Red State? It used to be quality programming. Now it’s starting to give me a HuffPo type ulcer and I’m beginning to avoid.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:52 pm
210 – lets not give him any ideas.
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:57 pm
Matt (MWS)
Well, we’re left with two liberterians, two Catholics, two Mormons, three discredited Southerner/Midwest Evangelicals/Baptist (Kramer (sp?) and Roemer (sp?) didnt’ make the cut…)
I guess the liberterians are non-starters for the general, so we’ll drop them for arguments sake.
The Southerners/Midwesterner have fallen on their own sword.
So let’s look at the two Catholics. Santorum is not ready to be president, but I still respect him.
I don’t trust Newt…All talk and no walk and way too undisciplined and unfocused……and way to able to do 180′s with a straight face (Memory issues?)
You are supporting Huntsman. He looks great on paper. You’d think he’d be an acceptable default choice. But I just don’t trust him, nor do I like him. I’d take Santorum over him. (Yes, this Mormon would go for the Catholic in this case…)
So, now I’m a Romney guy by choice and by default.
If it looks like Romney won’t get the nomination, I’ll implement Plan B and start getting ready to try to survive in Big O World Part II. I’t won’t be pretty…
November 2nd, 2011 at 8:58 pm
jax – when video of Newt promising to never waiver on protecting a woman’s ‘right to choose’ surfaces then we’ll talk about how Newt’s record on abortion might possibly be worse than Mitt’s.
And guess what, even if said video DID surface, it wouldn’t be from 1994…..and it CERTAINLY wouldn’t be from 2002. And it sure as hell didn’t happen when Newt was 60.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:02 pm
hamaca,
“Did Mitt say anything about being a life-long barbecuer?”
When he first arrived that’s what he claimed. But after I asked him to start the smoker using the Minion Method, he admitted that he’s only cooked a couple hotdogs on his grandpa’s hibachi.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:03 pm
217 – Romney was 60 when Iowa was voting in 2008. Are you trying to claim he was giving pro choice speeches in the cornfields?
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:05 pm
217 – I rest my case.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Jerald,
I’ve pretty much resigned myself to a Romney vs. Obama race.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:06 pm
And so it begins…
Sojo has decided to lead the pack in starting off the pretzel contorsion contest to promote Newt as the more conservative option over Romney.
Sojo & Company, you guys need to check into a rehab center for credibility and integrity challenged folks…
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Show me a time when it would have been to Newt’s political advantage to be pro-choice, and he was pro-choice. The fact that there have been no recent cases doesn’t change a thing.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 pm
217 – He must have had a Road To Des Moines conversion then. Because in 2006, Mitt signed RomneyCare into law, complete with a Commonwealth Care board stacked with pro-choicers, a board that GUARANTEED a seat to Planned Parenthood and court mandate that abortions would be covered in any expanded health coverage.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:08 pm
220 – Rest your case on what? A couple of House members complaining about Newt? People complained Bush didn’t do enough.
If that’s how you rest your case then I hope being a lawyer isn’t your day job.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:09 pm
221,
It appears there will be no Huntsman surge. Though with the rate at which the “contenders” are falling by the wayside he should certainly get a look. Hell, we’ve looked at everyone else.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:10 pm
225 – That you will say anything to attack Romney, and anything to defend whoever your anti-Romney flavor of the week is, regardless of how hypocritical it makes you look.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:10 pm
224 – this may shock you to your very core, but health insurance covers abortions even in Newt’s beloved Georgia. Stunning revelation, I know. I’m sure you were under the impression that Romney is responsible for the legalization of abortion, but it was in fact a tragic reality before he ever got there, and will continue to be for the time being.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:11 pm
#221..Matt, then you better get off your duff and start coaching Mitt on how better to connect with main street.
This is where no acting experience (Reagan, Thompson), no Southern preaching experience (Huckabee, Cain), and no radio show work (Reagan, Cain) is hurting Romney.
Romney’s heart is in the right place, but he is awful at connecting that to animated expression.
…which is probably a good thing once he gets in the White House, but when campaigning…It’s his biggest weakness…
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:12 pm
Er, no. I never claimed that. I just said that Romney KNEW abortions would have to be covered by court mandate when he expanded health coverage under RomneyCare.
He elected to enact the legislation anyway.
Do the math.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:16 pm
230 – Dumbest post ever.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:17 pm
#230..Sojo
I also knew abortions would be covered in MA and across the nation if he didn’t sign the legislation.
Sign or not, there would be no change to abortion coverage.
We did the math Sojo, you’re logic sucks…
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Jerald,
We discussed it over some pork steaks, but he refuses to give up his vendetta with Perry.
I kept telling him, “Give people a reason to believe, Mitt. Inspire them. Show them how America’s best days are not behind her, and please pass the Carolina mustard sauce.”
But he’d just shrug, mumble something about Perry being a retard, and couldn’t tell Carolina mustard sauce from A1.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:17 pm
“He also knew…”
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:20 pm
232 – But thanks to RomneyCare they were expanded for the low low price of only $50.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:21 pm
And Jerald it’s not true that there was no change. The “coverage” was expanded to MORE people.
And an abortion only cost $50.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:22 pm
235 – Newt didn’t end AIDS in Africa. What an idiot! I can never vote for him.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:22 pm
233,
LOL…I doubt he was mumbling…it’s a fail safe. If you find yourself not able to agree with someone about anything, just smile and say Perry’s a retard. Good politicians find common ground with the common man.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:23 pm
#233…See, that’s the problem Matt, you keep mumbling with your mouth full of pork chop.
You’ve got to make your message clear. Put down the food, put out the fire, and get serious.
Mitt thought you said to roast Perry over the coals. It’s your fault for not focusing.
And yeah, Romney needs to start giving Perry the “Ignore him” treatment…I think…..I don’t like it…..but maybe there is still a need…..but I think the Cain immolation presents a much greater need for Romney to sell his vision of the future and how he will take us there…IMHO….
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:23 pm
237 – But unlike Romney’s actions leading to MORE abortions, nothing Newt ever did led to more AIDS in Africa…
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:24 pm
And Jax, you would think that Romney, being the economic “expert” that the Rombots claim, would realize that when you give something away for free (or for the low low price of $50) then the demand for the “service” is going to go up.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:25 pm
240 – He fought against aid to Africa.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:26 pm
240 – do you have evidence to back up your claim it lead to more abortions, or did you pull that “statistic” out of thin air?
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:26 pm
US Aid to Africa can go a long way to preventing AIDS. That is about as close of a connection between Newt and AIDS as the one you are making between Romney and abortion.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:27 pm
242 – Okay. But withholding money isn’t the same as subsidizing abortions.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:28 pm
245 – and signing a health care bill is not the same thing as inserting something into the state constitution concerning abortions, which Mitt had nothing to do with.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 pm
243 – You don’t need a statistic. You subsidize bad behavior and you get more of it.
If you were to open up a candy store and give away Snicker bars for a dollar, what do you think will happen to your inventory when the neighborhood kids find out?
Same thing with abortion. Where before it may have cost hundreds of dollars, with RomneyCare it was expanded for only $50. Intended or not, it leads to bad behavior because people will think they can act with fewer monetary repercussions.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:32 pm
245 – Minor detail. So should I start accusing Newt of being pro-Aids? Or a racist?
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:32 pm
246 – But did Mitt know it was there and enact the legislation anyway? And if he didn’t then I wonder what he would have expected with the Commonwealth Care board was stacked with pro-choicers and GUARANTEED Planned Parenthood a seat on the panel.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:32 pm
248 – I’m sure if his numbers rival Romney’s you’ll come up with something just as clever.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:34 pm
Alvin,
After dinner, Mitt and I discussed our mutual disdain for Ricky P over brandy and crystal light.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:34 pm
251 – Good plan. Save the Martinelli’s for the night of the New Hampshire primary.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:36 pm
247 – a dollar isn’t especially cheap for a Snickers bar, but that’s besides the point. An abortion is a procedure, not a good. Its not like Massachusetts has a box of abortions it has to clear off the shelves. Insurance in Massachusetts already had to cover abortions. However…
“Between 2005 and the most recent available figures (2008), the U.S. abortion rate rose from 19.4 to 19.6 abortions per 1,000 women (aged 15-44). However, Massachusetts is bucking the national trend. In 2005, Massachusetts had a rate of 19.9. In 2006, Romney signed his health care bill. In 2007, the Massachusetts abortion rate dropped to 19.0. In 2008, the Massachusetts abortion rate further dropped to 18.3.”
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:36 pm
Jerald,
I hadn’t considered that angle. Maybe the barbecue had me too distracted. Next time we’ll discuss things on Mitt’s home turf. He invited me over to his mountain home for a little sledding this December.
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:38 pm
254 – I think I can guess who will be initiating the next snowball fight…
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:39 pm
#236..Sojo
I believe that had been debunked and the $50 abortions already existed as part of another government program.
Your claim that by providing expanded healthcare coverage, Romney expanded the number of people getting cheap abortions. Interesting line of attack. You folks must be working overtime. What? Nobody accusing Romney of sexual harassment. Darn!!
It would be interesting to have actually statistics to see if that was the case, and how that compared with other states. And now I understand why Perry doesn’t like people in his state to have insurance–if middle and low income people don’t have healthcare, they will die before they or their partner can consider an abortion.
This is good. So in the general election the GOP can campaign and repealing Obamacare and completely shutting down all healthcare across the country, completely ban it, for rich and for poor, until the Supreme Court overturns Roe vs. Wade and aborations are completely banned across the country–Not that is a great strategy Sojo!!!
Too bad something tells me that voters would give Obama a second shot, we get to live under Obamacare, and more and more babies will be aborted at taxpayer expense.
Good logic Sojo, we torpedo Romney and theoretically do some good by having taxpayers pay for the abortion of even many more babies. NOW THAT IS A WINNING STRATEGY
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:40 pm
249 – So many terrible assumptions there. Have you ever heard of elasticity of demand?
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:40 pm
257 was meant for 247
November 2nd, 2011 at 9:57 pm
223.
You miss a pretty obvious point. It was never in Newt’s political interest to be pro-choice. He ran from a highly gerrymandered district in GA. He has never been a state wide let alone a national candidate.
Yet he still was for healthcare mandates and AGW. From Georgia.
He’s not going anywhere.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Newt’s back below Cain on Intrade, for anyone interested.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Wait, I take that back, read the wrong one. That was to be VP.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:27 pm
192. You’re right. Most of them don’t play fair. And, MWS is pretty sane with his answers.
I’ve been very frustrated with SoJo in the past, but have recently come to accept that his zeal AGAINST Romney is sincere. I believe he is truly frightened of having Mitt as president.
Matt MWS also comes across having having real trust issues with Mitt’s sincerity as a conservative.
I really hope we give Mitt a chance to prove to them that he was worth of that trust.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:39 pm
199. I’ve had to really bridle my emotions when replying to many of them. I’m still not very successful at it.
Sometimes it like, “why can’t you SEE this?” But, in fairness, I think some of them feel the same way about OUR fervor over Mitt.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:47 pm
222. SoJo has been in heat for Newt for a week, or so, I think. Could be longer, but I’ve only really noticed it over the past several days.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:47 pm
262 – It is not about sincerity, it is about the “Why?”. SoJo has made no coherent argument for why anyone should be “scared” of Romney. I understand MWS’s concerns, even if I don’t agree with him. Not true of Smack and SoJo. Everything they say is just a recycled talking point that has been either discredited several times over the last 6 years or is something that can be used against their prefer candidate of the week, often to greater effect.
Their arguments don’t add up–so, either they are lying about their motives or are just stupid lemmings that have bought into someone else’s ulterior motives.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:48 pm
263 – You give them way too much benefit of the doubt. Maybe you haven’t been here as long as I have to see the disgusting lies they spread about Romney and their twisted logic that is completely inconsistent with what they said a month earlier.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:48 pm
224. Now, be fair. You KNOW what Mitt signed into law had NOTHING to do with his own convictions. He had no choice.
Governor Romney is pro-life, and like Ronald Reagan, once supported abortion rights.
However, unlike Ronald Reagan, who signed an abortion law while governor that caused abortions in his state to sky-rocket, Mitt Romney has a consistent pro-life record as governor.
As Ronald Reagan’s son, well known conservative pundit Michael Reagan, has said, “Romney’s record shows he should be totally acceptable to all conservatives
He vetoed the emergency contraception bill.
From the National Review (Feb 11, 2005)
“Romney has started out of the gates playing it straight. ”I am in favor of stem-cell research. I am not in favor of creating new human embryos through cloning,’
Romney fought the liberal legislature:
”We’re very disappointed that the Romney administration is not honoring the intent of the Legislature, who voted overwhelmingly to protect the health of rape victims,” said Melissa Kogut, executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Massachusetts…”
Romney added an ammendment to the stem cell bill to prohibit cloning.
From National Review, May, 2005
Mitt Romney can probably hear his echo when he gathers those who are standing with him on this fight, but that’s not stopping him from trying.
Gov. Mitt Romney vetoed a bill Friday that would expand embryonic stem cell research in Massachusetts, but the measure has more than enough support in the Legislature to override the governor’s veto.
Governor Romney passed a medical plan that reduces the number of people who receive state funded abortions.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:51 pm
233. Is this a fantasy meeting you’re describing? Or, did you really have a sit-down with Mitt? Was that a real conversation?
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:56 pm
235.
Blaming the co-pay on Romney is a bit like blaming the founding father’s for Roe v Wade, since the Constitution created the Supreme Court. The truth is, the bill Romney signed does not say anything about abortion but creates an independent agency called the “Connector” which sets the co-pay amount(4).
Moreover, two MA court decisions(5) require state programs to cover abortion.
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:56 pm
235
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:59 pm
240. Hold on there!
See 270 for the TRUTH.
November 2nd, 2011 at 11:05 pm
266. I’ve been here long enough. After one particularly long, fruitless exchange with SoJo let out a primal scream and slammed my fist into my desk about 8 times. I couldn’t calm down enough to get back to work for about 20 minutes.
The lies and repetition of stuff that’s already been sufficiently debunked gets under my skin, too.
November 3rd, 2011 at 12:09 am
I see Sojo cut and ran when the landslide of facts and logic came down on top of his head…
November 3rd, 2011 at 1:12 am
273. Hah! Or, maybe he just went to bed.
November 3rd, 2011 at 2:06 am
Cain Cites a ‘Voice Much Greater Than Those That Would Try to Destroy Me’
http://abcn.ws/sdiw40
November 3rd, 2011 at 2:11 am