From the get-go CNN moderator Anderson Cooper was a bad choice for the moderator of the GOP debate and not just because of bias.
The former reality TV show host clearly didn’t know how to treat a campaign for the Presidency with dignity. The introductions were not unlike what we’ll see before Game 1 of the World Series tomorrow, and to cap it off, we had the National Anthem.
Cooper was not so much a moderator, as he was a provoker. Rather than viewing the debates as an opportunity to educate the voters, Cooper’s questions set out to draw Republican candidates in cage fight style confrontations and it worked several times, but none drew more blood and more of the Jerry Springer style politics that Cooper was striving for than this confrontation between Romney and Perry.
Lets be clear here, Perry was out of line from the beginning. Perry supporters can take heart in the fact that he stayed awake for nearly half the debate, only lapsing into incoherency towards the end of the debate. Unfortunately, most of the time in this debate, while he wasn’t asleep, he looked anything but presidential. Shouting matches and downright rudeness characterized Perry’s performance. It looked anything but Presidential.
However, Romney’s response didn’t help. On one hand, he dispelled SNL Romney’s statement, “I”m incapable of rage,” with a response that included getting into Rick Perry’s personal space and putting his hand on Perry’s shoulder in a very agressive away.
For many Republican voters, the gumption of Romney might be appreciated except it was accompanied by whining about the debate rules and appealing to the moderator by name. “Anderson!” in a tone not too dissimilar from a child crying, “Mom, make him stop!”
Many folks at home saw what Sarah Palin saw. Her kids were fussing at each other during the debate and she had moments when she could tell the debate from her kids fighting each other and couldn’t tell which would make the most sense.
Much of the after-debate was about who won the debate. On the fine points of a college debating judge, the case can always be made for Newt Gingrich, with a nod to Michele Bachmann doing nicely. In reality, debates are about moments. When we look back at recent presidential debates, we don’t remember the debates on points, what stands out are those moments.
“I’m paying for this microphone…” and “There you go again.” (Reagan ’80)
“Where’s the beef?” (Mondate ’84 to Gary Hart.)
Governor, would you support the death penalty for someone who murdered and raped your wife? (Bernard Shaw to Michael Dukakis)
“Can we leave character out of it?” (The pony tail guy in 1992)
Even from this year’s debates, we remember the defining moments. Bachmann going overbnpard on Gardisil. Perry saying opponents of in-state tuition for illegals had no heart, Cain talking how he was able to survive Stage IV cancer thanks to our current health care system.
Any doubt as to what the defining moment of this debate will be? The one thing people will remember. As Allahpundit remarked that this was “the closest America has ever come to an actual fistfight breaking out during a debate.”
This was bad for the party and bad for the country. Anything that can be done?
1) Stop doing so many debates-particularly with so many candidates in the race. It’s very hard for someone to truly “win” the debate when candidates aren’t all asked the same questions and you can go half an hour with hearing from someone.
2) Candidates should insist on the majority of campaigns approving of the moderator. Really, there’s no excuse for Anderson Cooper being the moderators. To Fox News’ credit, they don’t send Sean Hannity to moderate debates. They send less biased hard news people and the other networks could do the same.
3) Questions that will actually inform voters rather than driving candidates nuts.
Of course, the odds of any of this happening are slim. Lesser known candidate willl go to any debate sponsored by virtually anyone, so they can get their name out and if the major candidates don’t follow suit they’re exposed to charges of being chicken and dodging debates.
Republican and Tea Party organizations seem willing to partner with anyone willing to offer an event airtime without thought to how edifying the performance will be. Truth is that Republicans would do better to let respected local jounalists ask the questions and let C-Span air the debates.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:28 am
It was good to see Romney stick up for himself, so to speak. Perry was losing control, and somebody had to settle him down. The crowd really had enough of Perry very quickly. It was interesting that Anderson was not jumpin and telling Perry to stop interrupting when he made other candidates abide by the rules all night long. Anderson seemed to have selectively allowed Perry to interrupt and go on and on.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:30 am
I do agree that the number of debates needs to be lessened. That’s part-and-parcel with shortening the primary process (which has gotten ridiculous.)
Though I’m curious, Adam: in Romney’s shoes, what would you have done?
(Ask yourself honestly. I don’t expect an answer.)
October 19th, 2011 at 12:30 am
Yawn
October 19th, 2011 at 12:35 am
ADAM, ur bias. im srry to say. if u would have listened to not only cnn, which yes i agree has alot of democrates so they probally dont favor republicans. but even fox said that mitt romney won the debate, and for u to come back and say u hated the debate saying romney did not good at defending himself, thats when i quit reading ur bias article. i understand if u dont like rick perry or mitt romney, but least dont over exargerate crap to make ur canidate ( im guessing cain ) look good.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:36 am
Sorry about #3, that was unnecessary. I actually agree with a large portion of your post. The debates are getting out of hand. The format is completely useless. I don’t think Cooper did that bad of a job. The candidates were clearly the instigators of the fighting.
I think it is completely uncalled for that several of the candidates flat out called Romney a liar. Not only is that inaccurate, but it is destructive to the person that is most likely going to be the nominee (yes, I know he can still lose … settle down SoJo). If anyone should be called a “liar” it is Slick Perry. He just pulls statistics out of his butt. He has been proven dead wrong on several of the supposed “victories” of his tenure as Governor of Texas. Romney never has and never will call someone else on that stage a “liar” though, even if it is accurate to do so. It is undignified and completely undermines the Republican Party.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:37 am
ROMNEY was only defending himself, he couldnt just stand there lol
October 19th, 2011 at 12:42 am
I try very, very hard to be open and unbiased during these debates. I don’t fully succeed, but I do make the effort.
I actually liked Romney’s response. And, here’s the thing. He was in a nearly no-win situation…
Doing what he did comes across as you described in the OP. But, what if he’d been more mature and just laid back and let Perry interrupt and walk all over him. You KNOW what would have happened. EVERYONE would be saying that Perry ate Romney’s lunch and that Romney has no spine and he doesn’t have the guts to go toe to toe with Perry, so how can we expect him to face Romney.
He really had no choice but to respond the way he did. Both Perry and Santorum really looked bad with the constant and rude interruptions.
But, I gotta say, since Perry is the candidate I like the least, this clip was my absolute favorite of the debate. Did you see Perry’s face when Mitt finally got him to shut up? He was fuming. Worth the entire price of admission, right there.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:45 am
#2:
We came to actually answering the question, I think he did well and would have had a clear win. Perry may have started it, but Romney went right to his level and escalated the thing. A debate should never get physical and Romney went there and appealing to Anderson Cooper help was pathetic.
He should have said firmly, “Let me finish, it’s my time.” Seriously, he let Perry rattle him and throw him off his game.
And no one should be rattled by Perry, who seems to perform like a drunk uncle when raising charges against Mitt Romney that are off-topic, “Hey, you know great question, Anderson about kids being uninsured. Did you know Mitt Romney had illegal immigrants mowing his lawn once.”
This was a time for Romney to keep his cool, and instead he lost it.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:47 am
#5:
Anderson was clearly instigating. Watching the debate, you’ll notice two or three times that he handed very specific opportunities for Bachmann to go after Mitt and Rick Perry and she refused to take the bait. Santorum is always up for it.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:52 am
After the debate, in interview mode with Ari + Darid Rodham Gergen & Donna Brazille – Anderson Cooper said that the question which was asked by the Latino voter WAS NOT the question that they (CNN) had approved he asked ahead of time. As you’d expect, the question the voter had been previously approved by CNN to ask was something like “Why is the Republican Party so despised by Latinos?” and, instead, the questioner dared ask a different question (something like what can the party do for the community) & Anderson seemed to be apologizing to the liberal audience for letting that one get by.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:54 am
Santorum looked like an idiot, he is done.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:58 am
8. I’m sure this is what happened after the last debate…
Handler tells Perry: “You can’t let Mitt shut you up like that. It made you look like a child. So, if he does that again, you just keep talking and talking until Mitt give in. You’ll be a hero!”
So, after 20 seconds, Perry’s going, “Hey, but Mitt’s not giving in! What do I do now?” LOL. He truly got OWNED there.
It’s the difference between being able to think for yourself and just trying to do what your handlers coached you on.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:00 am
AG -dude give it up already.
every time you post i hope that you will have regained the positive focus that you had previously. I always thought you brought good insight into your posts, even the ones that were anti-romney(which werent that many). but now you are a one man band playing the same old tune and its old and tired, unfortunately.
as to your point that this was the worst part, i will give you that Romney showed emotion, that he touched Perry on the shoulder doesnt rise to the “get physical” hurdle you are trying to give it. You make it out to be that he almost hit him.
you rightly state that Perry initiated the exchange and Perry is the one that went “there” first. If Mitt lets him and doesnt refute it nor fight it with fire then Romney risks becoming a Dukakis like figure who no matter what will simply not be angered and that reinforces the robot/plastic meme. which some all too willingly want to thrust upon him.
what you saw tonight was Romney basically saying enough to Perry. Enough with the Religous baiting, enough with the distortions, enough with the old worn out attacks. I think it was also Mitt reasserting control of the process, he had had it with Santorum interrupting him and Perry went a bridge too far.
Personally I am glad Romney got po’d and back in his face. Shows passion that people say is lacking from him and works to his advantage both in the near and long term.
Romney wasnt perfect tonight, but he took the hits and didnt cede control of the message of defining him to others like he did in 2007. better candidate this time and it showed
October 19th, 2011 at 1:02 am
9 – Completely disagree. The candidates that wanted to attack, attacked. They would have whether Anderson said anything or not.
I don’t have a problem with the way Romney handled the interruptions, though he could have been a little more smooth with it. I agree to some extent that appealing to the moderator made him look weak, but it is the moderators job to keep things under control (in that respect I agree that Anderson sucked).
My biggest problem with Romney’s performance was the personal jabs at Perry’s debate prior debate performances. I felt they were a little under the belt and unnecessary. Perry deserved it though. He is a total jerk. Perry looked like he was going to explode when Mitt made those jabs. I wonder if Mitt was hoping he would.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:05 am
I love the new anti-Perry site from the Mitt campaign though. I’m not normally a fan of negative campaigning, but Perry deserves it. He is a bald faced liar. Mitt has to control the narrative and call him out on it.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:10 am
My favorite part of the debate:
Romney taking Paul’s challenge and listing things he would cut (especially the part about a 10% reduction in the government workforce).
October 19th, 2011 at 1:26 am
Here’s (somewhat) proof of what I said about Perry’s handlers and their plan going in:
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/perry-debate-plan-pay-less-attention-rules
October 19th, 2011 at 1:28 am
8
I’ll allow for that last part, but I think it’s easier said than done to assume that you’d respond so coolly on stage that way.
We’ll just have to see how the ramifications of this debate play out for all the candidates.
(And thanks for answering.)
October 19th, 2011 at 1:42 am
I really disliked Perry as a candidate before this debate. But now I am really close to hating his guts personally. I mean as a person. He is not Presidential material. He is barely human material.
Everyone has been claiming Romney has not emotion. Well he does, and Perry called him a hypocrite.
Last time Perry tried that he shrunk into a little ball of stroke victim, I guess Perry thought he had something to prove. But of all things, Romney’s landscaper had illegals working for them? That is Mitt’s big hypocrisy? Man talk about your double standards, Mr. You Don’t Have a Heart, Perry?!
Romney is the exact right person to run this country. Rick Perry needs to go home to Texas, give his money to charity and just take a nap or something until this whole thing is over. He can’t hack it.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:01 am
I agree with this article. No one won. The Republican Party lost.
Perry has brought a lot of negativity since entering the race. He resorted to name calling in this one: hypocrite & liar were each used once. The SNL clip with Perry saying nothing was below him was right. He’s a true scum bag. Regardless of who the Republican nominee is, they’ll have some ground to make up vs. Obama due to party damage caused by Perry.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:03 am
I wonder… will this get people off the fense? Will they really stand by and let this kind of pettiness against Mitt keep them from supporting him?
It is all pettiness. All of it.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:07 am
As much as some would love to use this debate in order to put a dagger in Mitt’s back to prove their bias. Sorry, but Romney is not the bad guy here.
Romney did what he had to do. Santorum, Gingrich, and Perry said he lacked credibility, called him a liar, a failure and accused him of not being a conservative …It wouldn’t be fair for anyone to expect him to respond in any other way when his rebuttel was being interrupted….The audience saw what was going on and booed the candidates in favor of Romney.
This was a very uncivil debate, it was ugly, but put the blame where it belongs…put the blame on the candidates who came to the debate knowing they were going to sandbag Romney…..and Palin, Hot Air, and Red State should not be doing the work for Obama and the Democrats.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:22 am
Did anybody hear the moderator and the sound guys going, “Fight! Fight! Fight!” in the background?
just kidding, but I’ll bet they were on the inside.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:32 am
Cooper created the situation. A moderator, moderates … you could tell he wanted them to duke it out. Romney did well and was the winner. It’s funny, people will be critical of Romney no matter what. If Romney didn’t stick up for himself in the exchanges, his critics would argue that Romney ‘lacked passion’.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:56 am
Not Mitt’s best moment. I think Rick probably won that round.
October 19th, 2011 at 3:23 am
25. In what way did Rick win?
October 19th, 2011 at 4:37 am
“This was a time for Romney to keep his cool, and instead he lost it.”
Ummm overstate much?
Perry said in Texas they’ll “get ugly” on you.
Well Perry showed plenty of ugly and provided Mitt with proof, before millions of people, that he can take a punch and still look damn presidential.
And interesting enough he didn’t whine about being anyones pinata either.
Both Rick’s mistake jackassery for leadership and they booed for that reason.
BTW, Mitt’s answer about the Jeffress/Mormon remark and schooling Perry on The Constitution was pure mastery…..elegant, heartfelt, strong. Perry’s answer made him look puny in comparison.
October 19th, 2011 at 5:06 am
Debates need to get viewers to watch the paid advertising for them to be profitable. Viewers will not watch if they are like C-SPAN.
Viewers want excitement. They want anger, and jabs, and snark, and all that good stuff. In other countries, people are enticed to watch politicians debate by having the moderator show up as a 25-year old girl in a skimpy outfit. It’s all the same game.
Corporate media is ALWAYS, without fail, a race to the bottom. The less moral it is, the more it sells.
I wonder… will this get people off the fense? Will they really stand by and let this kind of pettiness against Mitt keep them from supporting him?
It is all pettiness. All of it.
Unfortunately, I do not see any sign that Romney will do more than consign this nation to the stagnation and eventual decline that it has chosen for itself.
Ron Paul is the only candidate I see who will give this country tough medicine and not care about being reelected.
October 19th, 2011 at 5:18 am
Nothing wrong with the national anthem. CNN way overproduces the beginning though.
I said on the other thread, I didn’t like Mitt’s response to Perry, especially touching his shoulder. However, I consider it to be a net plus in the end. It shows that Romney is not the unemotional guy depicted by SNL and the like. It’s far enough out of the voting to not hurt him in play nice states like Iowa, and frankly Perry is such an unlikable weasel that he has a safe foil.
Those that say that Mitt had to do this or look soft I think are fooling themselves though. Romney has been taking attacks like these every single debate and tossing his opponents to the ground with the ease and grace of an aikido master. He didn’t have to get angry to beat back Perry. Especially not on a talking point that he can answer so easily that he delivered a death blow to Giuliani’s campaign on it four years ago.
Either Romney decided it was time to show that he’s got some fangs and will fight, or he genuinely got angry with Perry’s blatant cheap shot.
October 19th, 2011 at 5:23 am
I honestly thought Mitt fared well in the Perry exchange. Some analysts are saying that he looked angry, pissed, lost composure. Good. He should have. Rick Perry was an imbecile there making a charge that three people made unsuccessfully four years ago. It was a cheap shot and Mitt handed it right back to him.
October 19th, 2011 at 5:34 am
Um, if someone has difficulty keeping their composure and acts in a classless manner because Anderson Cooper is moderating the debate then they shouldn’t be President. The “blame the media for everything” meme is really tired at this point. They wanted to attack each other.
October 19th, 2011 at 5:43 am
Just thought Rick looked more authentic is that one exchange. And it was a bit rich for Mittens to get angry about rules being broken when he broke the rules to ask Herman a question! That said for the most part Perry was VERY unlikeable.
October 19th, 2011 at 5:54 am
Perry, with malice, tried to attack Mr. Romney’s honor. The moderator would have gladly let him continue his decietfull attempt without allowing Romney to respond. Mitt would have none of it, and handed perry his empty head. I loved it! Romney could have passively let this go, but how many uninformed people would have bought into Perry’s unanswerd slander? MItt Romney has the right as both a candidate and a man to defend his honor, and I for one am pleased that the gentleman can out punch a bully into submission.
October 19th, 2011 at 5:56 am
32:
Using your time to ask another person a question is different than jumping in and talking over another person’s answer. Mitt tread carefully in asking Cain a question and allowed Cooper or Cain the opportunity to cry foul if they wanted.
October 19th, 2011 at 6:08 am
Mitt mopped the floor with Perry in this exchange, and pretty much every single other one as well.
To the average regular Republican, Perry came off as desperate, weak, petty, and ridiculous.
Perry’s done. He’s now been fully exposed on tuition for illegals, opposing E-Verify, and his state attracting far more illegals than FL and CA.
What’s more, Mitt eventually responded to Perry’s hiring charge with the truth and facts, clearly indicating the true situation.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, Perry did not recover one bit like he needed to last night. In fact, he sealed his fate of being relegated to the losers convention.
October 19th, 2011 at 6:20 am
35.
Actually, I think Perry succeeded in one thing. His being a whipping boy for Mitt kept him relevant for another day. One more bad night where he was incoherently talking about energy when asked about China’s currency, saying policies don’t matter, and falling asleep and he would have been in Bachmann/Santorum territory.
At least he’s in the highlights tonight for being what he’s best at. A gigantic jerk.
October 19th, 2011 at 6:25 am
36
Perry lost the nomination last night. There is no question about it. He looked like a petty jerk, and millions of people wrote off entirely the possibility of ever voting for Perry.
October 19th, 2011 at 7:00 am
I missed the debate last night, but watched “The Exchange” this morning. To my mind, Romney got the better of it, but I’m not sure that he elevated himself so much as didn’t descend as far as Perry. Neither man looked “Presidential,” though Romney looked less undignified and hypocritical.
I am also sick and tired of these moderators trying to create a Jerry Springer type atmosphere. It is unbecoming, and a disservice to the voters are supposedly the reason for being there. Of course, the candidates share the blame, as they are always looking to score that “Gotcha’” knock out punch. Perhaps in the future, we should restrict debate moderation to Rick Warren, and NPR and PBS hosts…….
October 19th, 2011 at 7:02 am
MassCon,
I believe that Perry was finished before last night, and have only really seen The Exchange, but honestly, I think it’s hard for us to accurately gauge how truly undecided voters perceived candidates that we either love or loathe.
October 19th, 2011 at 7:30 am
So… SNL seems to be doing pretty well with their charicatures. The Perry guy on SNL said that “nothing was beneath him.” Santorum is the jumpy angry candidate. Bachmann and Newt are basically non factors (at this point anyway). Cain is just as surprised as anyone that he’s either tied for first or leading. Ron Paul is Ron Paul. The only one they got wrong was Mitt’s guy saying “I’m incapable of rage.”
So the question I have for you guys now is… how do you think the SNL skit will go next week?
Picture this:
They ask Ron Paul a question that already has his answer in it, so we don’t even need to hear from him. Then Cain says that everyone loves his 9-9-9 plan and people shouldn’t mix apples and oranges, after which all the other candidates throw apples and oranges at him.
Then Mitt getts attacked by Santorum, and Mitt puts him in his place “Tommy Boy” style (Mitt saying “Are you talking?! and Santorum mumbling “Shut up, Mitt.” Then Mitt gets attacked by Newt, and then responding with almost exactly what really happened: Newt loudly proclaims that Mitt said a “bald faced lie!” Then Newt ten seconds later admitting that it wasn’t a lie at all. Then for the finalie, Perry attacks Mitt, and then Mitt tries to respond, but since Perry won’t shut up and let Mitt speak, he takes out a baseball bat and Slams Perry in the face. Then they ask if Bachmann wants to attack Mitt also, and she demurely says something about Obama with nervous glances at Mitt.
Isn’t that pretty much what happened?
October 19th, 2011 at 7:54 am
Like I said last night, I hated the debate. It left such a bad taste in my mouth. In the beginning (before Perry got in), the tone was civil and presidential. Not saying it should be a powder puff derby, but the nastiness and ad hominen attacks were disgusting. Santorum started it. Perry got in it too. Calling Mitt a hypocrite and a liar were uncalled for.
We learned little new from the candidates because they can’t really explain much in 1 minute responses. They all have to say, Go look at my plan. And attack each other. It was ugly.
October 19th, 2011 at 8:09 am
Loved the debate! Really shows you who these people are, warts and all. For example, Romney may be uber-intelligent, detailed, prepared, and quick on his feet, but he’s also pretty arrogant and does not tolerate fools. Perry is a lazy, unprepared jerk.
October 19th, 2011 at 8:30 am
#42: But, Asparagus, we already knew all this. But I hear ya’.
October 19th, 2011 at 8:51 am
Cooper is a horrible moderator. He was horrible in 2008 and worse this time. He re-phrased audience questions to mean something completely different than the original question. He offered way too many rebuttals… even at the end when each candidate was supposed to have equal time to state their case to the American listeners/viewers, he allowed time to run out because he provoked bickering… way to go Newt for calling it out!
Perry: I wish he never would have entered the race…. he’s a jerk looking for a fight and is a divider.
Santorum: Time to drop out. You don’t come across very presidential.
Paul?: Stay in it for entertainment value only.
Herman: Stay… you prop up the party with positive attitude.
Bachmann: Stay…. for now… level headed.
Newt and Mitt: STAY! Stay ’til the end and duke it out with your good ideas, and may the better of the two win…. NEWT!!!
October 19th, 2011 at 8:54 am
Romney’s disposition is that he is a nice guy and he is as professional as they come in different settings. In the business world you have to have an aura that you’re in charge. Politics is all about being phony but trying to make it look as natural as possible. Perry can’t do it in a debate. He isn’t intellectually sound. Romney’s getting really good in all phases of campaigning. Something like this was bound to happen. Everybody in conservative media was egging the candidates to go after Romney. They did. Everyone else did it on the basis of Masscare and Perry chose to pathetically use immigration. Romney is hardly a politician and that exchange with Perry shows a boardroom like exchange between two people trying to win a big contract selling themselves to us, the buyers. Perry is out of his element and so are the others when they attack Romney. Romney may not have looked good in those exchanges to some but he didn’t hurt himself and came out on top to others who aren’t sympathetic to cheap shots from a weak candidate. Romney was blindsided and the others were prepared to blindside him. At the least now, the others know that the next time they better be ready because if they attack Romney again he will be that much better prepared for it. Politics is dirty and everyone is now playing the game. Romney at times will have to play the game too and he will only get better for it.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:01 am
It looks like Gingrich is the talk right now which I say great. Romney and Gingrich are intellectual giants and their experiences couldn’t be more stark in contrast. This would be businessman vs. career politician. This is where you separate the men from the boys and girl.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:04 am
Maybe it’s just my opinion, but since I did not have a horse in that race last night…..ALL of them involved in the juvenile bickering looked really bad. I understand the Rombots will claim it was all Perry’s fault or Santourum’s fault….whatever, they ALL looked like jerks.
Seriously, I don’t want Newt for Prez, but he has the field lapped when it comes to statesmanship. It’s not even close.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:05 am
Will Gingrich be the new non-Romney?
October 19th, 2011 at 9:07 am
Looking at the debate schedule:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_debates,_2012
i would think romney would skip the next CNN debate, there is no need for two debates in November within a week of each + romney won’t skip the MI debate. I also don’t see the point of 3 debates in earlier december, folks should pick one and skip the other 2.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:09 am
#47: Newt looks good (1) because he’s Newt, but (2) He’s been so low in the polls no one has attacked him. It’s easy to be above the fray when you’re not in the fray.
Mitt got him last night though when he tried to go after Mitt.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:10 am
Nice work, Kavon.
Thanks for keeping the main post relevant and interesting.
You do an excellent job moderating, and I very much appreciate it.
44
I also think it will probably come down to Mitt and Newt… but bad news for Newt is that we don’t have another debate for a month, and he’s way too deep in the red to put out any media. Plus, Cain will probably go down a bit, but don’t expect a Perry-like crash to the earth, because Cain is clearly intelligent and has quality business cred. Perry does have $$, though, so he’ll probably come back up a little with a media blitz. It all looks like enough (at least right now) to split any not-Mitt vote and further cement Romney as our likely nominee.
Huntsman, Bachmann, and Santorum need to drop out and endorse if they’d like to. I wonder if any will, though. They each want their turn at FOLM.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:11 am
#49 I might agree. We’re reaching the point of diminishing returns, IMO.
Without Mitt on stage, they can attack each other.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:12 am
Newt’s a politician who knows the cues. He backed off after Romney bit back about individual mandates. It was so bad that Romney even had Newt mentioning that he was complicit about his favoring individual mandates with the much heralded and very conservative Heritage Foundation pushed by conservative media all the time.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:14 am
I want to personally thank (Kavon?) for removing those horrible FPPs by David Shedlock. Great decision.
I also want you all to see the new polls by MSNBC in South Carolina and Florida, released this morning:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44951113/ns/politics/#.Tp7C9EdA3MU
SC:
Cain – 30
Romney -26
Perry – 9
Gingrich – 6
Bachmann – 5
Paul 5
Undecided – 15
FL:
Cain – 32
Romney – 31
Perry – 8
Paul – 6
Gingrich – 6
Undecided – 11
October 19th, 2011 at 9:17 am
Over the next few post debate polls I expect to see Cain come back down with Romney, Gingrich, and Perry getting some of those percentages lost by Cain. The most of those lost will go to Gingrich.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:19 am
Mitt handled it. Perry was a wild man. Cooper did what was expected of a lib tool.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:20 am
I did not enjoy watching this debate. I think Perry would rather lose to Cain than Romney. All Perry’s millions will go to take Romney down. Get the two ill-mannered politicians off the stage, Perry and Santorum.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:22 am
Thank you Kavon for removing those two disgusting articles by David Shi…Shedlock. I was really sickening by him comparing Romney as a Nazi and pro-Slavery because of his very reasonable position on abortion.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:23 am
49
Nobody but Mitt and Perry has any $$, so they want all the free coverage they can get! They wouldn’t skip a debate if they had three the same week! And as we saw last night, Mitt just looks stronger when he can defend attacks forcefully and intelligently. Perry may skip some, but we all know why he would now. Some say Mitt didn’t look good scrapping on the floor with the others, but you better believe that Obama is going to fight with our nominee… and Perry may fight, but he still looked like an idiot!
Temperment also is part being president. I don’t want a pres who constantly backs down to our enemies. Appeal to the international community when rules are broken, and WHEN they ignore you just like Anderson did… take the US haters and shut them up forcefully. The more I see of Mitt, the more I get excited to see him as POTUS!
October 19th, 2011 at 9:33 am
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! LOLOLOL!!!!!!
Sorry Josiah, but this is hilarious. Gary Johnson spent the debate time addressing reporters for Pagan organizations, including the “Modern Witch Podcast.”
http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2011/10/19/news/shut-out-of-debate-johnson-talks-to-pagans.html
October 19th, 2011 at 10:00 am
I agree with Adam that this debate didn’t potray Repubs in a good light. However, I don’t really blame the moderator for that. It was our candidates who decided to put on an entertaining show, you can harldly blame a network that makes it’s money selling that kind of thing for not jumping in putting a stop to it.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:05 am
Maybe I’m just too much a Rombot, but I actually LOVED that piece of the debate last night. Mitt was firmly in control, put Rick Perry in his place, and the audience (GOP voters) LOVED it.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:07 am
The whole hand on the back moment was very interesting. I’m surprised Mitt did that, but it seemed to be one of those “Look, son” moments. Perry had fire and bullets in his eyes. He never really lost his internal rage for the rest of the debate.
I grant that this wasn’t Romney’s best debate, but he got to skate in the previous debates. He was able to fully answer the MassCare question, albeit through the interruptions of both Santorum and Perry (particularly when they both claimed he removed a line from his book that supposedly means he changed the meaning… which it didn’t.) By the way, I really hope that anyone watching the debate will pick up Mitt’s book and actually look at that page.
Cain really got neutered in the beginning didn’t he? Overall, I doubt this debate does anything to change many people’s minds. Wayne Newton, of course, went in liking Perry and came out loving Romney.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:08 am
By the way, Mitt should bring both his hardback and softback copy of the book to the next debate and read the paragraph for everybody. heh.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:12 am
Mcon I think you have the florida numbers wrong out today. I saw it like this
Romney 33
Cain 32
Perry 9
Gingrich 6
Paul 6
Bachmann 2
Huntsman 2
Santorum 1
Either way it is good news for cain and romney in both states. Bad news for perry
October 19th, 2011 at 10:14 am
Thanks Kavon for removing those posts. It was wrong for leftist to compare Bush to Nazis, and it’s too bad that some on the right have fallen into that kind of pathological intellectual apoplexy.
I don’t think Anderson Cooper was the best moderator, but he was clearly having fun–and it was a lively debate. We shouldn’t blame Cooper for the desperate acts of a few floundering candidates. I wish Romney didn’t have to get so aggressive with Perry and Santorum (both of whom I respect–probably the latter more than the former), but when bullies come for you on the playground I expect a future president who maintains his cool while aggressivly countering vicious attacks and low blows like “you’re a big hypocrit for employing illegals at your house” coming from a man whose runs a state government employs hundreds of illegals.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:14 am
40. Exactly. SNL was pretty on top of things, including giving Huntsman the wrong address… on purpose.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:19 am
I think if you look at the number of Boos compared to the wild applause–This was Mitt’s and Cain’s night and Perry did horribly. Mitt showed that he could think on his feet and speak forcibly impromptu (his measured response to Cain saying that Nevadans’ will have to take home a bushel of apples and oranges), and his quip to Perry that if he expects to be President, then he’s going to have to learn how to listen.
Both brought huge rounds of applause. Perry had the most catcalls of the night. As a Romney supporter I thought it was ugly and hard to see Romney in that cage-fight environment, but if I were a Perry supporter I’d be truely worried.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Mitt probably helped himself with the angry Republican voters. They like people who will get down and dirty and are more likely to hold their nose and vote for him now. The happy voters who naturally are attracted to him were put off by the whole sordid affair, but we will get over it.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:22 am
Romney looked FANTASTIC in this exchange. I loved every second of it. Boy, for a second there, I thought Mitt was going to knock Rick Perry out. Romney looked Presidential, he looked like the adult, he looked like he a command of the facts. And the CROWD let that be known when they booed Perry and cheered Mitt.
Boy, I wish Romney had knocked that dirty son of a bitch on his ass. Rick Perry is a piece of garbage, he’s not worth being a dog-catcher, much less becoming President of the United States. He took in on the lip last night from Romney, and I was cheering the whole time.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:24 am
The outcome of this debate is, as Gergen said last night, that Mitt went into it the frontrunner and came out of it a stronger frontrunner. The debate took some of the mystery out of Cain’s 9/9/9 plan, and in the process took some of the sheen off it. Cain will go down some, but not more than a few points.
Perry will lose a lot of his support. Some of Cain’s lost support will go to Mitt, and some to Gingrich, while Perry’s lost support will scatter.
Romney was the only winner last night.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:26 am
The only thing this exchange proved about Mitt Romney was that he’s got real fire inside and is fully capable of getting angry when he needs to. This is red meat to the hard right wing and only helped his case with their support.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:28 am
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/gop-debate-las-vegas_b_1019481.html
October 19th, 2011 at 10:29 am
If there was someone who put there hands on Romney during the debate last night the ROMBOTS here would be going crazy.
Romney did good overall, but this wasn’t his best effort.
Newt was the winner last night.
Perry was awful.
Smackdaddy is still in the corner Romney….but you can’t put your hands on someone like that. Period
October 19th, 2011 at 10:29 am
October 19th, 2011 at 10:31 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/romney-wins-by-eliminating-each-serious-challenger/2011/03/29/gIQAzvA7wL_blog.html
October 19th, 2011 at 10:33 am
Attacking another candidates character with lies, especially a candidate who is the likely nominee (and is a pretty great person, to boot), is completely unacceptable. I am completely with the two Ricks.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:33 am
77: completely disgusted*
October 19th, 2011 at 10:33 am
I loved when Romney called out Newt, the GIANT hypocrite, on Health Care mandates. Gingrich looked like a flip-flopping fool and it only took Romney 30 seconds to do it.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:34 am
74
You are right. If Perry put his hands on Mitt, I’d be fuming.
But it’s okay, I hate Perry.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:34 am
It is one thing to be a jerk anonymously online. It is quite another to be a jerk in public on national television when it destroys the party.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:34 am
79
Agree
October 19th, 2011 at 10:35 am
74 – LOL. Newt got completely owned on the mandate issue. He looked like a fool.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Adam
I really don’t get your response in # 8: ” He should have said “Let me finish. Its my time”. In essence, that’s exactly what he DID say…..and was ignored by Perry and Anderson Cooper. Another time, he said the same thing to Santorum, and was ignored by both while Santorum tried to run out the clock and then tell Mitt he was out of time. In both cases, people were just waiting to criticize Romney for being run over in the debate.
This was softball compared to Obama. Does ANYBODY really believe Perry and Cain and Santorum and Bachman are going to win a debate with OBAMA ? Are you kidding ????
CraigS
October 19th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Wayne Newton
October 19th, 2011 at 10:37 am
74 – Any Perry fan who complains about the hand on the shoulder is absurd. Do you know how often Perry puts his hands on people? Did you forget about the pictures of him grabbing Paul in a much more agressive way after the first debate?
October 19th, 2011 at 10:45 am
I hope you’re all beginning to understand why we Texans can’t stand Rick Perry. What you’re seeing in these debates is the exact reason he refused to debate any of his opponents during the gubernatorial elections. The more you see of him, the less you like him. Now imagine having to see and listen to him demagogue from the White House for four years. Ugh!
October 19th, 2011 at 10:46 am
@86, or the famous finger poke in the chest.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:48 am
I don’t think Romney was damaged by this debate, or the exchange with Rick Perry. Perry came off as an idiot and worse things that Kavon won’t let me say here…
But that image of Romney as always calm, always level-headed, completely professional, basically Mr. Presidential, IMO, has been cracked.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:52 am
I don’t frequent this site any more because it’s been overrun by Romney fans, but several weeks ago, I seem to recall a great number of Romney fans saying how ‘inappropriate’ it was for Rick Perry to touch Ron Paul’s arm during a commercial break.
Interesting, how when the shoe is on the other foot that the tune changes. Mind you, Rick Perry got ‘physical’ with Ron Paul during a break from the debate. Mitt Romney got ‘physical’ with Rick Perry *during* the debate. For someone like Mitt Romney, not known for being a touchy-feely kind of guy to do that *during* a debate should be a topic for debate.
If you thought it was over the line for Rick Perry, than it definitely was for Mitt Romney. Don’t defend it, but realize that when someone is dogging you about something you feel is unfair it’s a somewhat normal reaction.
Enjoy discussing amongst yourselves Romney fans, maybe I’ll be back someday.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:53 am
89
Cracked? Mitt has shown he can bring out the tiger many times before. He did it on the stump just before the Iowa Straw Poll with the hecklers, he did it a few days later at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, and he did it again last night.
I don’t think it hurts him at all, it shows people he’s still human. Which, IMO, is a very good thing.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:04 am
He’s done it before, but 1) Not to this extent, and 2) Not to this large of an audience.
Maybe it does help him with some people, who insist that their President be someone they would go to the bar with, but for me….it just seems less Presidential, and I want a candidate who looks/acts/speaks/thinks/eats Presidential.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Am I too old fashioned? I guess I expect debates to be on the issues. I hate the bickering. Hate the set up! Too much time for rebuttal, and audience participation needs to be minimized. This should not about entertainment and ratings… it should be about informing the public.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:24 am
I also loved it when Mitt settled the TRUTH with Newt on Newt’s SUPPORT of an individual mandate……..the look on Newt’s face…..PRICELESS!
October 19th, 2011 at 11:29 am
29. It wasn’t about the attack. It was about the interruption. If Romney had let Perry interrupt him everyone would have been all over him.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:32 am
Mr Romney is mr. constant. He still kept his clam intelligent manner, but to simply relinquish the mike and the time alloted for him to his lying opponent would not be presidential it would be enabling. Battered woman do that not the president of the united states.
90# Romney put his hand on this rambling vindictive man, after attempting multiple times to simply speak in a converstaional tone during the time he was suppose to speak. Perry walked over and grabed an old man’s arm, or poked some kid in the chest. If you cant see the differnece than it is probably best you continue to support the man who may be most like you.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:35 am
In my opinion, the problem is the format. Candidates need more than just 1-2 minutes to elaborate on their positions. The medium also adds to the hostility. Television is all about the ‘shock factor’.
Q: What is the FEC going to do to correct this problem?
A: Not a d*mn thing.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:35 am
38. Yeah, it wasn’t Mitt’s best moment, but as I said elsewhere, he was in a no win situation. He absolutely could not afford to let Rick win by interrupting him. He just couldn’t back down. He didn’t. And, Perry blinked first. And FUMED.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:39 am
92
Oh please. 99.9999% of the time this IS Mitt Romney. He gets feisty for about 10 seconds during a debate, and you’re ready to call him unpresidential?
October 19th, 2011 at 11:47 am
70. When Mitt put his hand on Perry’s shoulder, wouldn’t it have been amazing if Perry had shoved it off? I almost wonder if it was intended to create that reaction from Perry.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:48 am
72. I didn’t see it as anger. I saw it as a measured, forceful, appropriate response. Not anger. Perry and Santorum are the only ones who seemed angry, to me.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:48 am
What happened to Craig for Whomever? Is he now Craig for Cain or has he gone into hiding since Perry imploded?
October 19th, 2011 at 11:49 am
Adam,
What in the hell are you talking about. Romney overwhelmingly won the exchange. He received cheers for his answers…and he made perry look like a little kid. Romney was also able to actually answer the questions posed to him. Perry was only able to attempt to assinate romney…and he failed. Perry has got to go…he is poison to our party.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:51 am
78. THAT makes more sense. I was about to FLAME you!
October 19th, 2011 at 11:54 am
89. And, I’m not so sure that’s a bad thing.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:55 am
92. I’m with you except that the alternative response would have been VERY bad for Mitt.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:57 am
100 – I thought the same thing. I almost wondering if Romney was trying to get him to blow a gasket. The look on Perry’s face was hilarious. He looked like he was about to explode.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:57 am
102 – He’ll come back in a couple weeks as Craig for Cain. He has to wait and make sure Perry is really dead though.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
My favorite part of the night when Romney exposed the utter hypocrisy of Newt Gingrich about the individual mandate.
It’s about time Romney exposed the fact that it was the REPUBLICANS that came up with the idea of the individual mandate. And they were damn right. INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY is what Conservatism is all about.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Perry looked like an over-compensating little bully with his attacks on Romney in the debate last night.
Perry was trying to attack Romney for supposedly being a hypocrite on illegal immigration. Perry suggested that Romney is somehow responsible for the fact that a landscaping company he hired had employed illegal aliens to mow his grass & clean up his yard.
What was Romney supposed to do – racially profile & demand employment documents from any darker looking landscaper that showed up or any worker with an accent? I’m sure the media would have loved that. If Romney’s personally responsible for the illegal laborers of companies he hires to do yard work, then anybody who eats at a restaurant with an illegal alien dishwasher or cook, sleeps at a hotel with illegal alien housekeepers, or even eats food picked by illegal alien laborers is directly responsible for hiring illegal aliens.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
But one point of advice to Romney. Keep your cool when the playground bully tries to bait you. Fight back of course, but Perry looked very un-Presidential last night. It’s the worst that Perry has looked so far in this regard.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Here’s Perry Team’s spin
They just may be able to pull that off.
Personally, I’ll say again that Romney had no choice.
I didn’t see him being rattled. He just kept going when Perry tried to bowl him over.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Here’s an interesting comment
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/fifth-debate-perry-finally-shows
October 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
This will come back to bite Romney
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/fifth-debate-perry-finally-shows
October 19th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
114
A giant “who cares”. Romney -accidently- hires a few illegals on his yard while Perry begs President Fox to start bi-partisan health care with Mexico and Texas.
Wow, Romney sure has as HUGE problem with illegal immigration!
October 19th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
115. Clarification: Romney didn’t even accidentally hire illegals. He hired a company. The company hired illegals.
There is NO REASONABLE SCENARIO where private citizens should be looking at someone who might be Mexican and demanding proof that they’re here legally. We must never get to that point.
The responsibility goes to the employer. And, we have to trust that they’ve done their job.
October 19th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
113. Contrary to Perry giving himself “a chance to get back in the game,” I think Perry destroyed himself more in this debate than in any other debate so far.
He has nothing. He acts like a bully and yet comes across as a “you’re being mean to me” victim.
October 19th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
Perry was way out of line. First in claiming “America wants the truth” while giving falsehoods, and second for not having the common decency to abide by the agreed upon rules. It’s not like he talked a little past his allotted time, he talked during another person’s time. It was childish behavior and Romney dealt with it in a very mature way. He confronted Perry, he pointed out that Anderson should be doing his job, and eventually he convinced Perry to wait for his turn.
Was there anything more masterful than Romney convincing Perry to wait his turn during that debate? I don’t think so.
To characterize Romney putting his hand on Perry’s shoulder as “very agressive” [sic] just goes to show a huge bias and is not too dissimilar from a child crying, “Mom, make him stop!”
October 19th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
118. Forget the rules. How about just common courtesy? To attack someone and then babble for 30 seconds while they’re trying to answer is so incredibly rude I can’t believe either Rick thought that would score them points.
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