Not my favorite Romney add this takes Romney of his previous message on his contrast with the current white house resident. I’m not a fan of infighting within the party but I also recognize Romney isn’t the one that started throwing punches and must think that the best defense is a good offense but Perry can’t keep from punching himself in the face so I say let fact check destroy his credibility and Romney should focus on the positive message of his unique skill sets which are tailor made for the problems currently facing the nation.
Actually, I like the ad for the purpose of showing Vincente Fox thanking Governor Perry for giving illegal aliens in-state tuition. Most people probably did not see that speech by Senor Fox, and probably will piss them off even more.
I agree with the sentiment of this add, and any rational conservative will as well, but don’t like it nonetheless. This is not a winning, make or break issue for me.
When it comes to this illegal immigration stuff, I don’t think Romney believes all the smack he talks. There is nothing in his pre-2008 background to suggest this Sheriff Joe schtick is real.
I also think they’re demagoguing with the clip of Vincente Fox. I get tying Reid, Obama, and Pelosi to Perry. Everyone knows what they are supposed to stand for. But what does Fox stand for in the average American’s mind, other than “Mexico”?The message seems to be “Mexicans like Rick Perry (hiss)”.
So I’m calling Team Mitt out on that one. Keep it above board, guys.
It seems so good to see a Republican stand up against in-state tuition for illegal immigrants. Kudos to Romney. I was always disappointed w/ the Bushes, and Texas in particular, for policies like this. Perry’s record is the worst, and I was really annoyed with his “you don’t have a heart” if you disagreed with his point of view. I see that Christie also is on the side with Romney on this. And shame on Rubio for supporting it. Definitely diminished my opinion of Rubio.
This has the effect of savaging Perry’s forced apology this week. We need a similar ad about 40% of the jobs created in TX since 2007 have gone to illegal immigrants. It would piggy-back very nicely on this ad.
There is nothing but real quotes from people in this video. There is no spin or deception here. Rick Perry should be proud of it, he has stood strong for leaving the border wide open. He has never been ashamed of that, so why be so now?
Romney would be smart to allow the illegal immigration issue to play itself out in the media, not to directly attach himself to it as much as he has in this ad. If he keeps driving this narrative, he’s going to come across as rough on Hispanics. And he has no reason to continue to attack Perry now. The man is sinking. Let him sink. Pretending irrelevance upon Perry would be more damaging at this point than directly engaging with him.
Mitt got his greatest shot in immediately after the debate: opposing instate tuition for illegal immigrants doesn’t mean you don’t have a heart, it means you have a heart and a brain. That line was brilliant on a number of levels.
Mitt should just leave it at that, allowing that sentiment to hang in the air, and move on.
It would be idiotic to not take advantage of what Perry has done. He’s serving this on a silver platter to his opponents. To simply ignore it and “hope” the media takes care of your chief rival would be stupid.
It’s just funny how Romney has been slammed over and over and over again for every last tidbit of his life over the past 6 months, but the moment Romney comes out with one, ONE, negative ad it’s like, “*GASP* OMG, how dare he do this? This is below him!”.
Just because Romney is a great guy, has 99% optimistic ads doesn’t suddenly mean he’s turned the bad guy for bringing this up.
You people are harder on Romney because of the higher standards he lives. Because Romney always comes off as doing the right thing, he gets more scrutiny when he suddenly doesn’t live up to that image for even a moment. But it’s fair game for someone of “lesser” standards like Perry to hit Romney all day long.
Cf, it’s not that he’s the bad guy. It’s just not smart political maneuvering. Attacking down gives legitimacy to your opponents. Perry more or less is finished. Especially if Christie gets in the race. Romney would be better served to lay off the ominous music and attack ads against fellow Republicans and focus on his message for America.
Remember how poorly Iowa and New Hampshire turned out in 2008 when Romney ran those “contrast” ads? Romney doesn’t need to make Perry look bad to win. Perry does that for himself. Christie answering the question on illegal immigration at the Reagan Library keeps this issue in the news. Cain saying he can’t support Perry because of illegal immigration keeps this issue in the news. Romney should not be putting out ads like this, plain and simple. Let other candidates and the media do the dirty work.
Perry is “finished”? Just a couple days ago I heard people saying on these boards that Romney should not let down his guard just because Perry is down in the polls.
Perry IS only down by 4 points in the latest Fox News poll. That’s not exactly what I’d “finished” just yet.
In a month from now when the Cain bump is gone and Perry is back neck-and-neck or leading Romney, I have a good feeling you guys would be saying, “Romney should have taken advantage of Perry’s big instate tuition gaffe. That’s the problem with Romney, he doesn’t have the balls to get down and fight for the nomination.”
I really don’t get Mitt’s tack on immigration. Mitt’s current base is the McCain/Guiliani wing of the party, so he’s not going to gain any extra points by emphasizing his toughness on immigration. Perry is self destructing on this issue without help from Romney, by waving his middle finger at his own base – there’s no reason for Romney to get in on it by ticking off his base. Romney should leave this work to Bachmann and Santorum.
I don’t think you an criticize Mitt for this ad and I think the ad brings up good things if Perry is the threat.
However, I think Mitt, for the time being, needs to focus on strengthening America type of adds. Perry’s attacks on Mitt can’t really do any damage at this point. If Mitt loses it will be because other candidates start to attack him or because of new opponents in the race. Mitt would be better off to stay positive and save attacks for when they are needed.
That said, it’s got to be annoying to deal w/a Perry campaign who’s only message is anti-Mitt.
When you’re giving an opening on a big opponent, you take it. That’s politics 101.
Not when you’re in the lead. Punching down gratuitously makes you look like a Class-A H8er.
So Mitt’s foes now apparently include some Vin-sin-tay dude with the ominous Messican accent. Thanks for the subliminal messaging, Mitt. Thanks for telegraphing your desire to receive no support from people with funny foreign accents.
Romney’s “lead” is about 4 percentage points and based on about 2 polls. “Punching down” would be attacking Rick Santorum. Rick Perry is still neck and neck with Romney.
24,
T”he fact that 80% of Americans oppose illegal immigration means that Romney’s “base”, moderate or not, largely agree with him.”
Yes, almost everybody opposes illegal immigration, but that opposition doesn’t translate into us being immigration hawks and tancredoites – the type of people Romney is sending signals to. I oppose illegal immigration, but I think one of the biggest solutions is to make a lot more of it legal. The fact that 80% of people are against breaking the law doesn’t give a great deal of insight into what they think the law should be.
CF, Rick Perry punching downward is one of the reasons he has dropped in the polls. He should have been focusing on Obama. I think Mitt would do more damage letting it go, and finding more stuff to bring up in the next debate (like 40% of the new jobs going to illegals). If I were him (and maybe this is his strategy), I’d just bring up one thing at every debate. That way, there’s just a constant stream of new negatives to Perry, as opposed to bringing up the old negatives that were all thrown out at the beginning.
#7 Actually, you are wrong. Romney vetoed a very similar measure on MA.
#28, 29 right again (as always) – Romney has a short window to “punch up” before Perry slides on by…
So I stand by what I said in #5. I agree with this, but think Romney should plow more fertile fields, and let Perry dig his own grave.
Oh, I think they do. Remember the polling of Jan Brewer’s immigration law in Arizona requiring officers to check illegal immigrant suspects? I remember the vast majority of Americans were in favor of it.
33, I don’t think he is either, I just think he’s pandering to that group which is not a wise political move. Consider that Romney’s path to the nomination is to win an open primary that voted for McCain twice, when there were competing Democratic primaries to draw away the left half of the state, in a year with no Dem primary. The SS attack makes sense for Romney’s position, defending a more moderate economic plan that doesn’t cut capital gains for the uber wealthy ( I might have the details on that a little off, I don’t know…), these things make sense for Romney’s political position. Attacking from the left should be reserved for Santorum and Bachmann.
35, I also remember polls several years ago showing 2/3 of the country in favor of things like a path to legalization – iow what your side calls amnesty. The immigration hawks back then we’re just as convinced as you that they were in a great majority. I think immigration hawks may have increased in size due to economic hardship – that tends to fire up their mindset. However, every group always has an exagerrated sense of their own size. If immigration hawks were really 80% of the country you’d think that would show up in the kind of politicians we elect.
#7. MWS, having lived in Cabo San Lucas for 2 years, I learned that whatever is good for the US when it comes to immigration is bad (in their perspective) for them. They don’t want to work to create an environment of job growth for their people, like we do, so they are TOTALLY fine sending their “riffraff” over to is. They’re giving us the worse of their society! The poor the don’t want to ennoble. Vincente Fix praising Perr over I’m
Igration is ONE HUGE RED FLAG.
No, he is NOT pandering. He is highlighting Perry’s inadequacies on immigration, and pointing out his own position (and belief) that we ought not force taxpayers to pay for the tuition of illegal aliens OVER AMERICANS from other states.
There is NOTHING Romney has said which could indicate “pandering” to the Tancredo-bots on immigration. Romney has ALWAYS OPPOSED deporting 12 million illegals.
Guy guys, Mitt is not “attacking down”, he’s merely countering the onslaught of negatives aimed at Mitt, and he need to! He needs to keep Perry losing momentum by not allowing Perry’s lies to to take hold in the minds of people. Once Mitt has the strong momentum, then he needs to lay off and, but as long as Perry is close, or even in a deadlock as they are now, he needs to keep Perry from regaining momentum with his ad lies.
If you are a fighter, you continue to attack your opponent where he is weakest. As long as Mitt is not being hypocritical on immigration, go for the knockout. Perry exposed himself and Romney needs to make that wound BLEED and enlarge it enough for voters to really get disgusted by it
The problem is that a HIGH percentage of voters only watch highlights. They don’t seek out and study the details the way most of us on this site do. So, Romney HAS to shed at least a little light on Perry’s follies. Otherwise, they’ll see Perry’s dishonest ads and believe them without looking into what a great candidate Romney will be.
To 85% of Americans, that clip was some random Mexican dude praising Perry on immigration. To 14% of Americans, that was Vincente Fox, (former) President of Mexico, praising Perry on immigration. Maybe 1% of Americans know more about Fox than that, and they’re not watching Mitt’s web ads, they’re reading The Atlantic and listening to NPR.
I think that clip was race baiting with plausible deniability.
“The video said, “Former President of Mexico: Vicente Fox”
Okay….. Why would Vincente Fox be an albatross around any American politician’s neck? What do Americans know about him, other than he’s Mexican and he was President? Can they make any ideological connection, as they can with Obama, Reid, and Pelosi?
To most Americans, he’s just “Vincente Fox,” random Mexican dude who was President.
Vincente Fox was clearly delivering Perry’s message to the Mexican people that their children can get a cheap university education in Texas if they enter the United States illegally.
I like the ad.
Poor Americans are poor through “no fault of their own.” Illegal aliens who broke the law to benefit their children should not be rewarded with our tax dollars.
If an illegal alien in Texas robbed a bank and gave the money to his son, would Perry let him keep the money because he got it through “no fault of his own.”
You can’t actually be serious. The former President of the country whose citizens are killing our health care, education, and lowering our standard of living, PRAISED Rick Perry. If you don’t think that’s a huge problem for Rick Perry, I can’t help you.
#47. MWS, I understand what you are getting at, however, I also believe that most Americans understand (especially after Calderon’s rant in our Congress by invitation of Obama) that Mexico’s stance on our immigration standards in opposite to what Consevatives want. To a much lighter extent, it’s like agreeing with Putin on our Foreign Policy. I give Conservatives credit for putting 2 and 2 together on the Fox aspect. I also give them credit for being able to differentiate between Mexicans (Mexican/Americans) and Mexico.
#52. Winning the GOP vote would not be predicated on Mexico stances ( don’t even know why I even attempt to educate you), by the general election that this could hurt Mitt. Get your party right!
I spent my mission in Peru for 2 years. I knew several families who had been desperately trying to legally get citizenship to America. Many of them had been trying for over a decade (they only allow you to apply once every two years), only to be rejected again and again and again.
It broke my heart to watch these people get rejected so much. -They- don’t have a border next to the United States to waltz across after getting rejected. They don’t have a chance to cheat the system like the Mexicans do.
Romney may be hurting the feelings of a few Mexican immigrants, but he’s making friends with every other non-mexican hispanic who doesn’t get the same chance as their neighbors to the north.
Saying Perry has the same stance as some random (to the vast majority of Americans) Mexican is saying he has the Mexican position.
So if you don’t like liberals, don’t vote for Perry, and if you don’t like Mexicans, don’t vote for Perry.
Nailed them, Matt. (Soooooo… are we finally getting the old Matt back who used to realized the true slimy nature and therefore danger of Romney the Politician?)
There is not a dumber politician with dumber advisors than Mitt Romney on earth. Mike Huckabee is wise after this weekend to run as far away as possible from the Rombot Nation’s race or Hispanic baiting camp.
So Mitt’s foes now apparently include some Vin-sin-tay dude with the ominous Messican accent. Thanks for the subliminal messaging, Mitt. Thanks for telegraphing your desire to receive no support from people with funny foreign accents.
MWS, I see your point on the angle of race bating, as it could be seen by some that way, and if there were any intentions it is implacable, but most Americans understand that Mexico does not care about our borders. Having said THAT, I think the linking to Pelosi and Ried would have been sufficient and it wasn’t necessary to use Fox.
#60. Yeah, it seemed gratuitous, which is why it first struck me. Most of Mitt’s ads have been pretty decent to date. Some of them really good. He should have left Fox out of it. Fox is quite popular among Mexican Americans.
#59. It’s always been your weakness to make deeply personal attacks on commentors who disagree with you. If you weren’t so quick to judge (I assume you are only like this online….can’t see anyone having friends in life with your online behavior) you’d have taken the time to read the whole comment where I said I lived in Mexico for 2 years and Mexicans are my best friends. I have very educated and respectable Mexican friends who I communicate with daily. I love many things about Mexico (REAL Mexican food!) and their immigration views for the US are not one of them. Sorry
Vicente Fox used the term “Mexican Migrants” if we used that term we would be called racists.
The ad was slow. I’ve seen better.
It would be good to some how keep Perry’s incompetence before the public, something everyday… but I question if this should come directly from Romney.
So far he has been very gracious to the other candidates. And he saved from himself twice in the debates. Once with the pinata crybaby thing in the first one and then when he seemed to graciously ignore Perry’s near stroke in the last one.
That is a good image. I hate to see him lose that.
71 – Yep. He was fine with McCain’s immigration bill. He did exactly diddly to change sanctuary city policies in cities in Massachusetts that establishd them until weeks before his gubernatorial term ended. He was for “path to citizenship” before he was against it.
He only tacked hard to the right on immigration as a political play so he could launch attacks on McCain and Giuliani.
Romney might well get tough on sanctuary cities in the future, but he didn’t when he was governor. During his tenure, at least four Massachusetts cities enacted or renewed legislation declaring themselves sanctuaries for illegal immigrants. Brookline and Cambridge reaffirmed their longtime status as sanctuary cities in so many words. Somerville and Orleans didn’t officially deem themselves ‘sanctuaries,’ but Somerville affirmed its ‘long-standing policies in support of all immigrants,’ while Orleans forbade city officials from turning in illegal immigrants without probable cause. We asked Romney’s campaign if he had acted against these cities, but they didn’t provide us with any examples. As far as we were able to determine in our own research, Romney made no attempts to penalize, censure, or cut funding to them.
Mitt Romney casts himself as tough on illegal immigration in a new ad in which he says that, as Massachusetts governor, “I authorized the State Police to enforce immigration laws.” He doesn’t mention that his order never took effect. It came in the closing days of his administration and was rescinded by his successor, as we wrote back in August.
He also promises, “As president, I’ll . . . cut funding for sanctuary cities.” Maybe so, but as governor he took no action against several such towns in his state.
Romney claims he put state troopers on the trail of illegals in his state.
Romney: As governor, I authorized the state police to enforce immigration laws.
Well, yes. But, as we noted in August, he didn’t do so until he had less than a month left in his term. He was already considering running for president, and the new governor-elect was expected to rescind the arrangement.
Romney began talking about giving troopers the power to make arrests on immigration charges earlier in 2006, but he didn’t sign an agreement with the federal government – a necessary condition for that authority to be granted – until Dec. 13 of that year. Romney was scheduled to leave office Jan. 4, 2007. Democrat Deval Patrick, who had won the race to succeed Romney, had already said the program was a “bad idea” because troopers were busy enough as it was.
Sure enough, Patrick rescinded the agreement within his first week in office so troopers could “focus on enforcing Massachusetts laws.” The policy never had a chance to take effect, because those troopers chosen to carry it out hadn’t yet begun a required six-week training course.
All those issues are totally irrelevant to this discussion.
Mitt Romney is talking about giving in-state tuition breaks to illegal aliens, and doing so without giving those same benefits to AMERICANS.
He’s not talking about sanctuary cities, he’s not talking about state police.
He’s talking about taxpayer funded benefits to illegal aliens, which Rick Perry PROUDLY supports, and thinks you’re heartless if you disagree with him.
That’s not to mention THIS:
Legislation authored by border legislators Pat Haggerty and Eddie Lucio establishes an important study that will look at the feasibility of bi-national health insurance. This study recognizes that the Mexican and U.S. sides of the border compose one region, and we must address health care problems throughout that region. That’s why I am also excited that Texas Secretary of State Henry Cuellar is working on an initiative that could extend the benefits of telemedicine to individuals living on the Mexican side of the border.
President Fox’s vision for an open border is a vision I embrace.
77 – No, the discussion started when I asserted that Romney is full of BS on his newfound hardcore approach to miigration. I offered proof. Since you didn’t counter it, I take it that you acknowledge that Mitt was weak on immigration while he was governor of his state. He only cynically decided to “get tough” in the final weeks of 2006, after having a typical technocratic liberal/moderate stance on illegal immigration generally until it became expedient to change tacks.
I think Perry’s position on illegals is stupid, and I’ve admitted such. It’s really easy to go after Perry for weakness on immigration as he is governor of a border state, but given Romney’s position on illegal immigration until 2006, I know damned well that Romney wouldn’t be any more conservative had he been at the helm in Texas. The fact that ROMNEY is taking the fight to Perry on this is insulting. If it were Tancredo or Joe Arpaio making the charge, you wouldn’t hear a peep from me, and at least it would be consistent.
This is what we all find maddening about Romney. The implication that he is more purely conservative than everybody else.
Romney is NOT claiming to be perfect on immigration, he’s letting the voters know that Perry’s record on immigration is UNACCEPTABLE and his own IS acceptable.
79 – Did Romney have millions of illegals in his state? Did Romney have to deal with the best of imperfect options to educate them so they don’t wind up non-assimilated, living in slums and increasing crime like in California?
Romney’s not imperfect on immigration, he’s downright BAD. Just like Perry. The difference is that Romney was fortuate enough to not have nearly as many illegals to deal with.
And if Mitt HAD to deal with 2M, as well as an entire 1000-mile border that the feds refuse to secure, with communities full of people who don’t speak English (and by virtue of that alone will remain poor and procreate with children who require *mucho* benefits off the txpayer dime) I’m pretty sure that, based on his other complete and total failures in this arena, he’d probably do what Perry did.
Mitt better hope that no one else decides to go after him on immigration and paint him as the opportunist that he is. Because his own record is pretty damned sucky. And I’d watch Santorum. Now that Romney is ahead of Perry, you’re gonna see Sanorum or someone else bring all of this stuff to light.
And when he does, Mitt’s going to AGAIN look pretty damned hypocritical.
You can talk and talk about what you SAY Romney WOULD HAVE done, but what we have here, is what Perry DID, and what Mitt DID NOT do.
All your assumptions are meaningless.
Frankly, to play your game briefly, I actually DON’T think even for a SECOND that Romney would use my tax dollars to send illegal aliens to college. Know why? It’s because he knows that benefits for illegal aliens provides an INCENTIVE to come to your state.
Not even RINOs support giving taxpayer-funded tuition to illegals.
Perry’s position on taxpayer funded tuition for illegal aliens is that of a GLOBALIST. If you need further proof, see what I posted above, where he says he “embraces” an open border.
Keep projecting fictional positions onto Romney, but Perry’s losing, and he’s done for.
85 – I don’t need to project anything onto Romney. There’s a reason Cain is climbing out of nowhere. If you’re right that Perry is done (and he may well be) then Romney is being pretty damned stupid. Because if Perry fails then EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON on that stage will be able to easily make the case that Mitt is also very very weak on immigration. The minute that that sticks is when Romney sees his 2008 problem (that he’s not nearly as conservative as he NOW fancies himself) all over again.
They cannot make the case that Romney is weak on immigration because he’s not!
Romney did an acceptable job on immigration, by any standard. No one is going to be pulled away from Romney because of his record on immigration.
And frankly, if Rick Perry goes away, so does the issue of immigration.
And I don’t see Romney trying to out-Conservative anyone like last time. He hasn’t really done it this cycle, and actually, he’s done just the opposite. He’s just been himself: a pragmatic Conservative.
“mitt romney should die”…some people need to relax, take a breather and realize that Rick Perry would not be a good president before they start calling for people’s deaths. Seriously, take your meds and calm down.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Pardon me while I repeat myself:
Amen to that, brother! Amen and Hallelujah!
September 30th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Not my favorite Romney add this takes Romney of his previous message on his contrast with the current white house resident. I’m not a fan of infighting within the party but I also recognize Romney isn’t the one that started throwing punches and must think that the best defense is a good offense but Perry can’t keep from punching himself in the face so I say let fact check destroy his credibility and Romney should focus on the positive message of his unique skill sets which are tailor made for the problems currently facing the nation.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:26 am
1
It’s just so fun and easy to kick Governor Gardisil when he’s down, how can you blame him?!
Rick Perry / Vicente Fox 2012! Whoohoo!!
September 30th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Actually, I like the ad for the purpose of showing Vincente Fox thanking Governor Perry for giving illegal aliens in-state tuition. Most people probably did not see that speech by Senor Fox, and probably will piss them off even more.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:32 am
I agree with the sentiment of this add, and any rational conservative will as well, but don’t like it nonetheless. This is not a winning, make or break issue for me.
Stick to the competence angle and attack Obama.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:32 am
The main difference between the Romney ad and the Many Perry ads is Romney’s are true and Perry’s are lies.
As Perry/Vicente Fox for 2012 would say:
Game
Set
Match
September 30th, 2011 at 11:36 am
When it comes to this illegal immigration stuff, I don’t think Romney believes all the smack he talks. There is nothing in his pre-2008 background to suggest this Sheriff Joe schtick is real.
I also think they’re demagoguing with the clip of Vincente Fox. I get tying Reid, Obama, and Pelosi to Perry. Everyone knows what they are supposed to stand for. But what does Fox stand for in the average American’s mind, other than “Mexico”?The message seems to be “Mexicans like Rick Perry (hiss)”.
So I’m calling Team Mitt out on that one. Keep it above board, guys.
No beer bellies though.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:36 am
It seems so good to see a Republican stand up against in-state tuition for illegal immigrants. Kudos to Romney. I was always disappointed w/ the Bushes, and Texas in particular, for policies like this. Perry’s record is the worst, and I was really annoyed with his “you don’t have a heart” if you disagreed with his point of view. I see that Christie also is on the side with Romney on this. And shame on Rubio for supporting it. Definitely diminished my opinion of Rubio.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:37 am
This has the effect of savaging Perry’s forced apology this week. We need a similar ad about 40% of the jobs created in TX since 2007 have gone to illegal immigrants. It would piggy-back very nicely on this ad.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:40 am
There is nothing but real quotes from people in this video. There is no spin or deception here. Rick Perry should be proud of it, he has stood strong for leaving the border wide open. He has never been ashamed of that, so why be so now?
September 30th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Yeah, I actually agree with Marque and MWS on this one (gasp! double gasp!). This ad isn’t exactly Team Romney’s finest hour.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:43 am
11
It isn’t Romney’s finest hour to quote VERBATIM exactly what Perry has said about in-state tuition over and over again?
I hope Romney takes it too this dumb SoB from Texas all day long.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:44 am
Romney would be smart to allow the illegal immigration issue to play itself out in the media, not to directly attach himself to it as much as he has in this ad. If he keeps driving this narrative, he’s going to come across as rough on Hispanics. And he has no reason to continue to attack Perry now. The man is sinking. Let him sink. Pretending irrelevance upon Perry would be more damaging at this point than directly engaging with him.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:46 am
Mitt got his greatest shot in immediately after the debate: opposing instate tuition for illegal immigrants doesn’t mean you don’t have a heart, it means you have a heart and a brain. That line was brilliant on a number of levels.
Mitt should just leave it at that, allowing that sentiment to hang in the air, and move on.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:48 am
13
It would be idiotic to not take advantage of what Perry has done. He’s serving this on a silver platter to his opponents. To simply ignore it and “hope” the media takes care of your chief rival would be stupid.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:52 am
It’s just funny how Romney has been slammed over and over and over again for every last tidbit of his life over the past 6 months, but the moment Romney comes out with one, ONE, negative ad it’s like, “*GASP* OMG, how dare he do this? This is below him!”.
Just because Romney is a great guy, has 99% optimistic ads doesn’t suddenly mean he’s turned the bad guy for bringing this up.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:53 am
You people are harder on Romney because of the higher standards he lives. Because Romney always comes off as doing the right thing, he gets more scrutiny when he suddenly doesn’t live up to that image for even a moment. But it’s fair game for someone of “lesser” standards like Perry to hit Romney all day long.
That’s seriously messed up.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:54 am
13, 14 totally agree.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:55 am
Cf, it’s not that he’s the bad guy. It’s just not smart political maneuvering. Attacking down gives legitimacy to your opponents. Perry more or less is finished. Especially if Christie gets in the race. Romney would be better served to lay off the ominous music and attack ads against fellow Republicans and focus on his message for America.
Remember how poorly Iowa and New Hampshire turned out in 2008 when Romney ran those “contrast” ads? Romney doesn’t need to make Perry look bad to win. Perry does that for himself. Christie answering the question on illegal immigration at the Reagan Library keeps this issue in the news. Cain saying he can’t support Perry because of illegal immigration keeps this issue in the news. Romney should not be putting out ads like this, plain and simple. Let other candidates and the media do the dirty work.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:58 am
19
Perry is “finished”? Just a couple days ago I heard people saying on these boards that Romney should not let down his guard just because Perry is down in the polls.
Perry IS only down by 4 points in the latest Fox News poll. That’s not exactly what I’d “finished” just yet.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
19
In a month from now when the Cain bump is gone and Perry is back neck-and-neck or leading Romney, I have a good feeling you guys would be saying, “Romney should have taken advantage of Perry’s big instate tuition gaffe. That’s the problem with Romney, he doesn’t have the balls to get down and fight for the nomination.”
September 30th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
When you’re giving an opening on a big opponent, you take it. That’s politics 101.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
I really don’t get Mitt’s tack on immigration. Mitt’s current base is the McCain/Guiliani wing of the party, so he’s not going to gain any extra points by emphasizing his toughness on immigration. Perry is self destructing on this issue without help from Romney, by waving his middle finger at his own base – there’s no reason for Romney to get in on it by ticking off his base. Romney should leave this work to Bachmann and Santorum.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
23
The fact that 80% of Americans oppose illegal immigration means that Romney’s “base”, moderate or not, largely agree with him.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
I don’t think you an criticize Mitt for this ad and I think the ad brings up good things if Perry is the threat.
However, I think Mitt, for the time being, needs to focus on strengthening America type of adds. Perry’s attacks on Mitt can’t really do any damage at this point. If Mitt loses it will be because other candidates start to attack him or because of new opponents in the race. Mitt would be better off to stay positive and save attacks for when they are needed.
That said, it’s got to be annoying to deal w/a Perry campaign who’s only message is anti-Mitt.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Not when you’re in the lead. Punching down gratuitously makes you look like a Class-A H8er.
So Mitt’s foes now apparently include some Vin-sin-tay dude with the ominous Messican accent. Thanks for the subliminal messaging, Mitt. Thanks for telegraphing your desire to receive no support from people with funny foreign accents.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
26
BS.
Romney’s “lead” is about 4 percentage points and based on about 2 polls. “Punching down” would be attacking Rick Santorum. Rick Perry is still neck and neck with Romney.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
And by the way, Rick Perry has been “punching down” at Mitt Romney since the day he entered the race in August when he was leading by double digits.
Again, more double-standard.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
RCP Average: Perry +3.5
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html
Romney’s punching down?
September 30th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
24,
T”he fact that 80% of Americans oppose illegal immigration means that Romney’s “base”, moderate or not, largely agree with him.”
Yes, almost everybody opposes illegal immigration, but that opposition doesn’t translate into us being immigration hawks and tancredoites – the type of people Romney is sending signals to. I oppose illegal immigration, but I think one of the biggest solutions is to make a lot more of it legal. The fact that 80% of people are against breaking the law doesn’t give a great deal of insight into what they think the law should be.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
CF, Rick Perry punching downward is one of the reasons he has dropped in the polls. He should have been focusing on Obama. I think Mitt would do more damage letting it go, and finding more stuff to bring up in the next debate (like 40% of the new jobs going to illegals). If I were him (and maybe this is his strategy), I’d just bring up one thing at every debate. That way, there’s just a constant stream of new negatives to Perry, as opposed to bringing up the old negatives that were all thrown out at the beginning.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
28
Double standards are part of the game when you’re talking to hacks, haters, and jerks. Get used to it.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
30
Romney isn’t a Tancredo-ite. He wants illegals to get in back of the line behind legals.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
#7 Actually, you are wrong. Romney vetoed a very similar measure on MA.
#28, 29 right again (as always) – Romney has a short window to “punch up” before Perry slides on by…
So I stand by what I said in #5. I agree with this, but think Romney should plow more fertile fields, and let Perry dig his own grave.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
30
Oh, I think they do. Remember the polling of Jan Brewer’s immigration law in Arizona requiring officers to check illegal immigrant suspects? I remember the vast majority of Americans were in favor of it.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
33, I don’t think he is either, I just think he’s pandering to that group which is not a wise political move. Consider that Romney’s path to the nomination is to win an open primary that voted for McCain twice, when there were competing Democratic primaries to draw away the left half of the state, in a year with no Dem primary. The SS attack makes sense for Romney’s position, defending a more moderate economic plan that doesn’t cut capital gains for the uber wealthy ( I might have the details on that a little off, I don’t know…), these things make sense for Romney’s political position. Attacking from the left should be reserved for Santorum and Bachmann.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
35, I also remember polls several years ago showing 2/3 of the country in favor of things like a path to legalization – iow what your side calls amnesty. The immigration hawks back then we’re just as convinced as you that they were in a great majority. I think immigration hawks may have increased in size due to economic hardship – that tends to fire up their mindset. However, every group always has an exagerrated sense of their own size. If immigration hawks were really 80% of the country you’d think that would show up in the kind of politicians we elect.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
#7. MWS, having lived in Cabo San Lucas for 2 years, I learned that whatever is good for the US when it comes to immigration is bad (in their perspective) for them. They don’t want to work to create an environment of job growth for their people, like we do, so they are TOTALLY fine sending their “riffraff” over to is. They’re giving us the worse of their society! The poor the don’t want to ennoble. Vincente Fix praising Perr over I’m
Igration is ONE HUGE RED FLAG.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
36
No, he is NOT pandering. He is highlighting Perry’s inadequacies on immigration, and pointing out his own position (and belief) that we ought not force taxpayers to pay for the tuition of illegal aliens OVER AMERICANS from other states.
There is NOTHING Romney has said which could indicate “pandering” to the Tancredo-bots on immigration. Romney has ALWAYS OPPOSED deporting 12 million illegals.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
37
There’s a difference between a path to LEGAL status, and a path to CITIZENSHIP.
Get it?
September 30th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Guy guys, Mitt is not “attacking down”, he’s merely countering the onslaught of negatives aimed at Mitt, and he need to! He needs to keep Perry losing momentum by not allowing Perry’s lies to to take hold in the minds of people. Once Mitt has the strong momentum, then he needs to lay off and, but as long as Perry is close, or even in a deadlock as they are now, he needs to keep Perry from regaining momentum with his ad lies.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
If you are a fighter, you continue to attack your opponent where he is weakest. As long as Mitt is not being hypocritical on immigration, go for the knockout. Perry exposed himself and Romney needs to make that wound BLEED and enlarge it enough for voters to really get disgusted by it
September 30th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Maybe Slippery Mitt is just trying demonstrate his position of power in order to sway Chris Christie’s decision.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
The problem is that a HIGH percentage of voters only watch highlights. They don’t seek out and study the details the way most of us on this site do. So, Romney HAS to shed at least a little light on Perry’s follies. Otherwise, they’ll see Perry’s dishonest ads and believe them without looking into what a great candidate Romney will be.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Spenza,
To 85% of Americans, that clip was some random Mexican dude praising Perry on immigration. To 14% of Americans, that was Vincente Fox, (former) President of Mexico, praising Perry on immigration. Maybe 1% of Americans know more about Fox than that, and they’re not watching Mitt’s web ads, they’re reading The Atlantic and listening to NPR.
I think that clip was race baiting with plausible deniability.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
45
That’s if you’re assuming 85% of Americans can’t read. The video said, “Former President of Mexico: Vicente Fox”.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Spenza,
Look at it this way…..
Saying Perry has the same stance as Obama, Reid, and Pelosi is saying he has the liberal position.
Saying Perry has the same stance as some random (to the vast majority of Americans) Mexican is saying he has the Mexican position.
So if you don’t like liberals, don’t vote for Perry, and if you don’t like Mexicans, don’t vote for Perry.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
CF,
“The video said, “Former President of Mexico: Vicente Fox”
Okay….. Why would Vincente Fox be an albatross around any American politician’s neck? What do Americans know about him, other than he’s Mexican and he was President? Can they make any ideological connection, as they can with Obama, Reid, and Pelosi?
To most Americans, he’s just “Vincente Fox,” random Mexican dude who was President.
September 30th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
CF,
Did you know Fox is actually a conservative? That under him, his conservative PAN party broke the corrupt 7 decade one party rule of PRI?
The only thing that makes him a “villain” with damning praise is that he’s Mexican.
I’m not saying Mitt is responsible for this, but whoever is needs to have their job threatened. Mitt is a better man than that.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Vincente Fox was clearly delivering Perry’s message to the Mexican people that their children can get a cheap university education in Texas if they enter the United States illegally.
I like the ad.
Poor Americans are poor through “no fault of their own.” Illegal aliens who broke the law to benefit their children should not be rewarded with our tax dollars.
If an illegal alien in Texas robbed a bank and gave the money to his son, would Perry let him keep the money because he got it through “no fault of his own.”
September 30th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
49
You can’t actually be serious. The former President of the country whose citizens are killing our health care, education, and lowering our standard of living, PRAISED Rick Perry. If you don’t think that’s a huge problem for Rick Perry, I can’t help you.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
And Romney disses every Hispanic from Mexico in one swoop.
Atta boy, Mitt the brainiac.
Thank God, Romney wil NEVER be our nominee. Ever!
September 30th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
#47. MWS, I understand what you are getting at, however, I also believe that most Americans understand (especially after Calderon’s rant in our Congress by invitation of Obama) that Mexico’s stance on our immigration standards in opposite to what Consevatives want. To a much lighter extent, it’s like agreeing with Putin on our Foreign Policy. I give Conservatives credit for putting 2 and 2 together on the Fox aspect. I also give them credit for being able to differentiate between Mexicans (Mexican/Americans) and Mexico.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
49.
BINGO!
(Except for the better man part.)
September 30th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
#52. Winning the GOP vote would not be predicated on Mexico stances ( don’t even know why I even attempt to educate you), by the general election that this could hurt Mitt. Get your party right!
September 30th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
I spent my mission in Peru for 2 years. I knew several families who had been desperately trying to legally get citizenship to America. Many of them had been trying for over a decade (they only allow you to apply once every two years), only to be rejected again and again and again.
It broke my heart to watch these people get rejected so much. -They- don’t have a border next to the United States to waltz across after getting rejected. They don’t have a chance to cheat the system like the Mexicans do.
Romney may be hurting the feelings of a few Mexican immigrants, but he’s making friends with every other non-mexican hispanic who doesn’t get the same chance as their neighbors to the north.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Nailed them, Matt. (Soooooo… are we finally getting the old Matt back who used to realized the true slimy nature and therefore danger of Romney the Politician?)
September 30th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
There is not a dumber politician with dumber advisors than Mitt Romney on earth. Mike Huckabee is wise after this weekend to run as far away as possible from the Rombot Nation’s race or Hispanic baiting camp.
Exactly, MG.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
Rombot Spenza definitely has a big personal problem (beyond mere politics) with our Hispanic brothers and sisters here in America.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
MWS, I see your point on the angle of race bating, as it could be seen by some that way, and if there were any intentions it is implacable, but most Americans understand that Mexico does not care about our borders. Having said THAT, I think the linking to Pelosi and Ried would have been sufficient and it wasn’t necessary to use Fox.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Craig,
I’m still the “old Matt.” I still don’t trust Romney. But he’s not dumb, and he’s not corrupt.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Spenza,
#60. Yeah, it seemed gratuitous, which is why it first struck me. Most of Mitt’s ads have been pretty decent to date. Some of them really good. He should have left Fox out of it. Fox is quite popular among Mexican Americans.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
#59. It’s always been your weakness to make deeply personal attacks on commentors who disagree with you. If you weren’t so quick to judge (I assume you are only like this online….can’t see anyone having friends in life with your online behavior) you’d have taken the time to read the whole comment where I said I lived in Mexico for 2 years and Mexicans are my best friends. I have very educated and respectable Mexican friends who I communicate with daily. I love many things about Mexico (REAL Mexican food!) and their immigration views for the US are not one of them. Sorry
September 30th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
MWS, “Implacable” was suppose to he “implorable”.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Perry is hitting Romney hard with lies and innuendos….Of course Romney has to fight back and set the record straight.
Dirty mud slinging attack campaigning is how Perry’s managed to win elections in Texas…He has no other campaign skills.
September 30th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Vicente Fox used the term “Mexican Migrants” if we used that term we would be called racists.
The ad was slow. I’ve seen better.
It would be good to some how keep Perry’s incompetence before the public, something everyday… but I question if this should come directly from Romney.
So far he has been very gracious to the other candidates. And he saved from himself twice in the debates. Once with the pinata crybaby thing in the first one and then when he seemed to graciously ignore Perry’s near stroke in the last one.
That is a good image. I hate to see him lose that.
September 30th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
I meant Romney saved Perry himself twice…
September 30th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
I wish Romney would just….die.
He was never hardcore on immigration until it was politica expedient to do so. Just like everything else he does.
September 30th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
This is the kind of stuff Romney did in 2008 to make everyone hate his guts.
He better hope he doesn’t stay obvious “front runner” for long – because everyone will be gunning for him. Just like in 2008.
September 30th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
68.
And that’s why anyone with a brain would go and find another candidate to support.
One with solid conservative small government principles.
Electing Romney is a complete total crapshoot for all Republicans who want to make America great again. Wake up, folks!
September 30th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
68
Romney was never hard on immigration until it was politically expedient? Really? Do you have any evidence of this?
September 30th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
71 – Yep. He was fine with McCain’s immigration bill. He did exactly diddly to change sanctuary city policies in cities in Massachusetts that establishd them until weeks before his gubernatorial term ended. He was for “path to citizenship” before he was against it.
He only tacked hard to the right on immigration as a political play so he could launch attacks on McCain and Giuliani.
September 30th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Factcheck
http://www.factcheck.org/tough_guy_on_immigration.html
September 30th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
More factcheck.
September 30th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
Still more factcheck.
September 30th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
So, yeah. Like I’ve been saying for months, Romney is full of $hit on his tough guy approach to immigration.
Just like he is on just about every other of his supposed principles.
September 30th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
76
I just read all your posts.
All those issues are totally irrelevant to this discussion.
Mitt Romney is talking about giving in-state tuition breaks to illegal aliens, and doing so without giving those same benefits to AMERICANS.
He’s not talking about sanctuary cities, he’s not talking about state police.
He’s talking about taxpayer funded benefits to illegal aliens, which Rick Perry PROUDLY supports, and thinks you’re heartless if you disagree with him.
That’s not to mention THIS:
http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10688/
September 30th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
77 – No, the discussion started when I asserted that Romney is full of BS on his newfound hardcore approach to miigration. I offered proof. Since you didn’t counter it, I take it that you acknowledge that Mitt was weak on immigration while he was governor of his state. He only cynically decided to “get tough” in the final weeks of 2006, after having a typical technocratic liberal/moderate stance on illegal immigration generally until it became expedient to change tacks.
I think Perry’s position on illegals is stupid, and I’ve admitted such. It’s really easy to go after Perry for weakness on immigration as he is governor of a border state, but given Romney’s position on illegal immigration until 2006, I know damned well that Romney wouldn’t be any more conservative had he been at the helm in Texas. The fact that ROMNEY is taking the fight to Perry on this is insulting. If it were Tancredo or Joe Arpaio making the charge, you wouldn’t hear a peep from me, and at least it would be consistent.
This is what we all find maddening about Romney. The implication that he is more purely conservative than everybody else.
September 30th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
78
NOPE. Romney was TOUGHER than Perry on immigration as governor.
He prevented illegals from getting drivers’ licenses AND denied them in-state tuition!
September 30th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Romney is NOT claiming to be perfect on immigration, he’s letting the voters know that Perry’s record on immigration is UNACCEPTABLE and his own IS acceptable.
September 30th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
79 – Did Romney have millions of illegals in his state? Did Romney have to deal with the best of imperfect options to educate them so they don’t wind up non-assimilated, living in slums and increasing crime like in California?
Romney’s not imperfect on immigration, he’s downright BAD. Just like Perry. The difference is that Romney was fortuate enough to not have nearly as many illegals to deal with.
September 30th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
To put it succinctly, assume illegal immigration stance is a test.
In that case, Perry gets and F- and Mitt gets an F+.
It looks dumb when the guy with the F+ criticizes the guy with the F- for being wrong.
September 30th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
82
“Most immigrants in Massachusetts are here legally, but an estimated 190,000, or 20 percent, are here illegally, according to the census.”
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/05/mass_senate_pas.html
So MA had roughly 200,000 illegal immigrants during Mitt’s tenure. Our population is about 6,000,000, so 1/30 people is an illegal alien.
But here’s the sticking point:
The amount of illegals you have should NOT effect your decision to give the luxury of college to all of them on the taxpayer dime.
September 30th, 2011 at 6:06 pm
190K is a lot different than 2M.
And if Mitt HAD to deal with 2M, as well as an entire 1000-mile border that the feds refuse to secure, with communities full of people who don’t speak English (and by virtue of that alone will remain poor and procreate with children who require *mucho* benefits off the txpayer dime) I’m pretty sure that, based on his other complete and total failures in this arena, he’d probably do what Perry did.
Mitt better hope that no one else decides to go after him on immigration and paint him as the opportunist that he is. Because his own record is pretty damned sucky. And I’d watch Santorum. Now that Romney is ahead of Perry, you’re gonna see Sanorum or someone else bring all of this stuff to light.
And when he does, Mitt’s going to AGAIN look pretty damned hypocritical.
September 30th, 2011 at 6:14 pm
84
You can talk and talk about what you SAY Romney WOULD HAVE done, but what we have here, is what Perry DID, and what Mitt DID NOT do.
All your assumptions are meaningless.
Frankly, to play your game briefly, I actually DON’T think even for a SECOND that Romney would use my tax dollars to send illegal aliens to college. Know why? It’s because he knows that benefits for illegal aliens provides an INCENTIVE to come to your state.
Not even RINOs support giving taxpayer-funded tuition to illegals.
Perry’s position on taxpayer funded tuition for illegal aliens is that of a GLOBALIST. If you need further proof, see what I posted above, where he says he “embraces” an open border.
Keep projecting fictional positions onto Romney, but Perry’s losing, and he’s done for.
September 30th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
85 – I don’t need to project anything onto Romney. There’s a reason Cain is climbing out of nowhere. If you’re right that Perry is done (and he may well be) then Romney is being pretty damned stupid. Because if Perry fails then EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON on that stage will be able to easily make the case that Mitt is also very very weak on immigration. The minute that that sticks is when Romney sees his 2008 problem (that he’s not nearly as conservative as he NOW fancies himself) all over again.
September 30th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
86
They cannot make the case that Romney is weak on immigration because he’s not!
Romney did an acceptable job on immigration, by any standard. No one is going to be pulled away from Romney because of his record on immigration.
And frankly, if Rick Perry goes away, so does the issue of immigration.
And I don’t see Romney trying to out-Conservative anyone like last time. He hasn’t really done it this cycle, and actually, he’s done just the opposite. He’s just been himself: a pragmatic Conservative.
September 30th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
I see the “stop Romney” crowd is all worked up by Romney’s successful effort to show that Rick Perry should not be President.
I was moved by the video and by how much Mitt Romney loves America.
September 30th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
“mitt romney should die”…some people need to relax, take a breather and realize that Rick Perry would not be a good president before they start calling for people’s deaths. Seriously, take your meds and calm down.