Just about every election cycle, there is talk about how some candidate (this time it happens to be Sarah Palin) is going to win by using unconventional means. Often this is heralded by comments about how ‘the rules have changed’ or that ‘this year is completely different.’
While rules do change over time, fundamentals change only when there’s a revolution; and while every year is different, the fundamentals aren’t.
No remotely unconventional campaign has been successful (or even come really close) in the era of primaries.
The last somewhat unconventional successes were by Willkie in 1940 (when a relative unknown came from nowhere to get the nomination) and by Eisenhower in 1952 (when a national hero upset the candidate who was clearly next-in-line in every conceivable sense). Both were essentially palace coups organized by one faction of party bosses against another faction.
But these instances tell us little about today, other than to remind us that the fundamentals did change after the 1968 election (thanks to McGovern-Fraser), in ways that made even the mildly unconventional campaigns of Willkie and Ike virtually impossible to replicate.
There’s a reason – the primary system has removed the rationale that underlies the whole idea of unconventional candidacies. The stated reasoning behind unconventional campaigns has always been:
“The bosses are against me, but The People are for me, so I’ll go around the bosses, direct to The People.”
This was the story in 1940 and 1952. Ike truly was tremendously popular, which the bosses came to recognize. Willkie was the beneficiary of a manufactured draft that gave the impression of widespread support. The problem is that primaries have meant that ‘the bosses’ don’t have the absolute control they did in the Willkie/Ike era. And to the extent they still wield power, bosses are pragmatists, almost by definition. Which means they want, above all else, to win; so if you’re wildly popular with The People, the bosses will fall in line (as they did in ’40 and ’52).
Thus, the unconventional campaigner’s statement above generally should be translated as:
“I don’t have enough support for a conventional campaign, so I’ll try something else and hope lightning strikes.”
It never does. Because the rationale of the unconventional campaign – going direct to The People – is what conventional campaigns do now. And what that requires today is that you need to do a lot of pressing the flesh in Iowa and New Hampshire, you need to raise a lot of cash to pay for media in the bigger states that follow (this is where the bosses still come in handy), and you need to hire the people who know how to organize campaigns. Those are the fundamentals that haven’t changed in the past several decades.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
Sheeesh. She’s not running. She’s a lovely American, but she’s not running. I’ll be happy if she does. But she’s not.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:22 pm
Beyond that, I think your point here is really quite valid. Otherwise we’d have someone like Al Green in the White House.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:23 pm
Great post Bob. Like I said in another thread, conventional campaigns are conventional because they work. The reason a campaign tries to do the unorthodox route is because they can’t win conventionally.
As Karl Rove put so aptly, “the Establishment” and “the Bosses” are not a group of Senators in a smoke-filled room anymore. There are literally hundreds of Establishments throughout the country and they include all sorts of people. The guy who has been head of my county GOP for 10 years is as big and Establishment figure, at least around here, as Mitch McConnell.
Candidates may talk about different issues, focus on different things, but they run in the same way. As one of the characters on the West Wing said “we’re game players, not rule changers”.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:27 pm
Very solid points Bob, abpt these type of campaign assumptions.
I don’t see how just being “unconvential” gets you to the nomination. If you had enough support, as you lay out, there would be no need to go unconventional.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:31 pm
Bob, nice article. The fundamentals you refer to, in your final paragraph, are not in question and most likely will not be ignored by a Palin campaign. Media coverage is starting to surface about her bus tour and if you look closely, or put your glasses on, she’s doing exactly what you say a candidate needs to be doing. She’s talking to the people and taking questions. If you think this is the unconventional part…
May 30th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
3 – I think you need to start paying more attention. You are a FPP at a rather big Republican blog…what are you missing? Palin is out there shaking hands and meeting everyday people. She’s taking questions from the media…she’s just not doing it in the most traditional of ways. Pawlenty has played the game the way most other Presidential candidates would play it, yet Sarah Palin sucked the oxygen out of what should have been his week. This Thursday Romney is announcing his candidacy on some farm in NH, rumors say Palin will arrive in NH that same day…who do you think will get more coverage? The gane is the same…it’s just the way it is going to be played that will be different.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
Jonathan: Your comments and your thread on being willing to do the grunt work in IA/NH were idea-starters. You’re right that ‘the bosses’ (aka Establishment) is a much more distributed network than it once was.
JR: Then you’re saying she’s running a conventional campaign after all? Perhaps — but there are no signs of state-level campaign organizations, or fundraising. But we’ll see. We’ll also see whether she’s willing to work hard.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
Should read…the game is the same…it’s just the way it is going to be played that will be different.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:44 pm
#7
Bob, the two things (a distributed Establishment and grunt-work) actually feed off of each other. In 1960, when the Establishment really was deeply concentrated in Washington, LBJ didn’t compete in a single primary and focused on currying support from Southern and Congressional Democrats. That all got him 2nd place at the Democratic Convention. Nowadays, with the Establishment so dispersed it simply requires a lot more work to woo them and get them to a candidate’s side.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:46 pm
Bob, I’m saying I have no idea if Sarah Palin is going to run for President. I feel evidence is starting to mount up that looks like she is leaning toward a run but who knows. I also know, that if she does run, this is pretty unconventional. I also know she is also doing the conventional things most candidates would do…she’s meeting and talking to people, she’s taking questions from the press along the route.
Will she need state-level campaign organizations to any magnitude T-Paw needs or Bachman needs…I don’t think so. Through O4P, the groundwork has been done and hundreds upon hundreds of volunteers are more than willing to jump on board. Sure she’ll need a staff but will she need to spend as much money as the conventional candidate does? I don’t think so. If she does a week’s tour in Iowa, she could announce and instantaneously lead in their polls. She could then have the choice of any staff she wants in Iowa. People will be handing in their resignations for the opportunity to work on the Palin campaign.
If you wonder about her work ethic, on the campaign trail, take a look at her 2006 gubernatorial campaign and you should have all the answers you’re looking for.
You are right though…we’ll see.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
Good write-up Bob…
May 31st, 2011 at 12:12 am
O4P’s website is still “under construction.” How are they building a campaign entirely under the radar? Isn’t the whole point to be ON the radar? Why the secrecy?
May 31st, 2011 at 12:23 am
12 – I’m not sure they’re building a campaign as much as they have been organizing an, for lack of a better word, army of volunteers to help with any future campaign structure that might be set into motion. As I alluded to in my early comment…this is all just conjecture as I have no idea if Palin will run or not.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:35 am
How long until Palin actually does more harm than good? Pawlenty had his roll out. Candidates are generally nice enough not to step on eachother’s roll out. Doing otherwise is bad sportsmanship.
But not Palin. If rudely taking the spotlight is unconventional… well, no thanks. Rude is only rude.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:36 am
Liz,aka Ellie,aka rightgal etc…
You are careful not to attack Palin children,let’s see how long it lasts.
You’ve been banned before for your vile,vitriol,vicious attacks against
Sarah Palin’s kids.I’ll be there if you do again!!!
May 31st, 2011 at 12:47 am
#14 Petunia
Think of this:
On the day of Mitt’s announcement big “One Nation” bus rolls in town.
On one side is Sarah Palin,little Piper and Todd.
On the other side is Mitt Romney,his paid army of consultants,lawyers,focus
groups,lackeys,lap dogs and endless number of flunkies.
Who do you think will be mobbed by the press and the people???
May 31st, 2011 at 12:51 am
14 – just like last cycle when Romney stepped on other candidate’s concession speeches?
May 31st, 2011 at 12:55 am
Good point #14.
If she does step on everyone else’s roll out, it will be seen as OK in some circles, because after all, she is Sarah Palin.
In the mainstream, it’ll be viewed as amatuerish, juvenille and decidedly un-Presidential.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:58 am
tex – are going to post that nonsensical dream of yours on every htread. I almost hope she does it, so it can blow up on her.
But I doubt she is as crass and dumb as that.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:02 am
Doug, at this point, I am beginning to believe Palin is as crass and dumb as you describe. I beginning to believe she has reached a level of narcissism as BHO. Her adoring fans are just as nauseating to me at this point.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:04 am
Politics is about the art of getting attention. If others can’t hack it then they should stay out. The fallacy of this argument is huge.
These are not normal times. The fact is that people are tired of politicians who say one thing and do another thing in office. They want authentic candidates. That’s why the people though Cain was the winner of the first debate.
The fact is that she is not going to have a army of highly paid consultants hanging from chandeliers. Why does someone need 3 advisors and 2 senior advisors? Can’t they think for themselves without consultants telling them what to think? Apparently Pawlenty and Romney do. Ross Perot was leading Bush and Clinton before he self destructed and he had volunteers and a sprinkling of professionals. I suspect that Palin’s campaign will look a lot like that.
How does anyone know who she has been talking to? She has certainly been raising money for her PAC and building a list of names that she could use for a presidential run. No one knew anything about the movie that was being made on her record as Alaska Governor. Safe to say that they are not the paid mercenaries that everyone else wants.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:05 am
#20 = I’m with you on most of the fans, but I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt right now. But the sands in the hour glass are draining.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:09 am
Doug,
The question is not if she will ruin(yes,she can do it if she wants to)Mitt’s announcement.
She’s very classy lady,she never said one bad word about any republican,
unlike Mitt’s lap dogs stabbing Gov. Palin in the back several times.
They couldn’t do it without Mitt’s approval.
I’m just illustrating the enormous power of Sarah Palin.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:12 am
I am sure if Palin has an announced day and locale of a run and someone else showed up to upstage it, the media would cover it.
But it’s not a good thing to wake up sleep walkers, so keep dreaming friend.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:13 am
Doug, at this point, I am beginning to believe Palin is as crass and dumb as you describe. I beginning to believe she has reached a level of narcissism as BHO. Her adoring fans are just as nauseating to me at this point.
=================================================
The Romney people are just as nauseating to me and that includes you. They seem to love attacking Palin anonymously. According to the Romney people, Palin and Bachmann are crazy women. What cowards. Romney is a flip flopping politician who will do anything to get elected. Romney is a non-starter.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:20 am
But the sands in the hour glass are draining.
==============================================
Karl Rove has said that July is the drop dead date for a presidential run and apparently her advisors see that as well. Patience is a virtue.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:31 am
Franklin, you Palinites refuse to see the facts that Palin is UNELECTABLE. She turns off the people that decide elections — independent voters. Only a fringe group of conservatives think she’s worthy of being President and they are so infatuated with her that they forget the main priority here is defeating Barack Obama. But no, Palinites are so willing to fulfill their fantasy of Sarah being President, they are more than willing to sacrifice this nation to four more years of Obama in order to seeing their pipe dream move along. Disgusting!
May 31st, 2011 at 1:46 am
Any RINO = Obama Lite.
Fast collapse under Obama or little longer(not by much) under a squishy RINO?
What’s the difference?
May 31st, 2011 at 1:47 am
Fredrick, there hasn’t even been a campaign…how can you tell that she is unelectable when the primaries haven’t even begun? In Ohio, according to the latest PPP poll, she beats the President by 1 point with Indies. She keeps him under 50% in most polls. How can you say what the game will look like in 17 months?
That’s right you can’t…
I personally do not believe that Romney can beat Obama. You support who you support and I’ll respect that and I WILL SUPPORT WHO I WANT TO SUPPORT!!!!!
May 31st, 2011 at 2:04 am
This is backfiring on Palin…The conservative press doesn’t have anything good to say about her ….They’re seeing it for what it is…She’s in Trump territory now.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:18 am
LV,
You are supposed to talk through your mouth,OK?
May 31st, 2011 at 2:29 am
#31…When you can’t make a good argument, you hurl insults.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:37 am
Fact: According to PPP’s last Virginia poll, Palin’s negatives among independents are supposed to be 30 points worse than Huckabee yet Palin’s deficit against Obama is only 3 points worse tahan Huckabee’s deficit among independents.
Fact: According to PPP’s Ohio poll, Palin has a -25 fav/unfav among independents yet she leads Obama 43-42 against independents.
Fact: Andrew Sullian, a Palin critic, admits that Palin could win.
There are a lot of so-called conservative press has always had it in for her and some of them didn’t like Reagan. Nirman Podhoretz says his conservative friends considered Reagan a air-headed b-moie actor.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:18 am
Who cares what the liberal Sullivan thinks.
I’ve come around I now don’t think that Sarah is running.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:22 am
Really?
Tell me,WTF do you think cares what your little mind thinks?
May 31st, 2011 at 3:38 am
DRUDGE LOVES SARAHCUDA!!!
Very smart guy!
May 31st, 2011 at 6:31 am
Palin knows if she’s running or not by now….since she’s done nothing to indicate that she’s preparing to run, then she probably isn’t.
As long as Palin keeps this dog and pony show up, the republican primary field remains unsettled, and it’s hurting the GOP.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:47 am
TEX, you don’t sound well. Just saying.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:53 am
I really liked this post. Solid thinking and analysis. Something does seem new to the process; the rise of celebrity/vanity candidates. I’ve never in my life seen so many potential candidates who had a financial interest in running. There is now a new class of political animal that profits financially from maintaining an appearance of running. Celebrity pols like Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, (and let’s throw in Trump, even though he’s not really a politician) have constituent niches who they appeal to, and they make big money leeching off the natural interest that swirls around presidential politics. Rudy Giuliani is similarly situated, but in his case the audience he plays to seems to be foreigners who are drawn to his security consulting firm because he seems to be a big player in national politics.
These people win and make big money by simply by hanging around presidential politics. Truly determined policy oriented candidates get squeezed by the celebrities because the national media follows the tv ratings stirrers, not the serious policy-focused folks. It makes for a two track nomination process; those who are in to win it, and those win just by being in it.
May 31st, 2011 at 8:01 am
39 – Is this the new narrative? Former politicians like Sarah Palin cannot be taken seriously because they have too much of an invested interest in presidential politics? This is kind of silly. Who decides who these entertainment politicians are? If any of them wrote a book, then they all have a monetary interest in presidential politics, yet you decide who is the serious candidate and who is not? I say let the electorate decide…with their vote.
May 31st, 2011 at 8:09 am
Actually I think it is kind of funny. Romney and T-Paw…the candidates with the most organization are out spending millions of dollars and only one of them is, barely, beating Palin in the polls and she hasn’t even announced yet. The other cannot, steadily, break his 5% ceiling. They have the best of the best political operatives and campaign specialists that money can buy, yet a former Governor of Alaska that quit midterm, leases a bus, uses the media to announce some sort of, campaign-like, tour. She refuses to give them any kind of itinerary and they chase her all around the mid-atlantic states for just a glimpse of an interview and all the free press she wants.
God she’s stupid and has absolutely no idea how to run a campaign.
May 31st, 2011 at 8:16 am
Palin has no financial interest. She does not have a book or a t show to promote. The fact ois that she walked away from a deal that could have been worth up to $8 million to do a second season of her show. That goes against her financial interest.
A note from RCP suggests that this could be a dry run on a campaign.
“Though Palin has insisted that her “One Nation” bus tour — being kicked off from Washington over the holiday weekend — is intended merely to “highlight America’s foundation,” RCP has learned that the road trip was designed as a test run to find out whether she can execute a decidedly unconventional campaign game plan.
Palin — and especially her husband, Todd — is said to be leaning toward running. But multiple sources said that their foremost remaining concern was whether it would be logistically feasible for their large family to hit the road together for the next several months in a prospective campaign that would rely heavily on bus travel.”
May 31st, 2011 at 8:21 am
Bob, this is an excellent post. Some very good history about 1940 and 1952 (the fake Willkie “draft” and the more genuine Ike draft) and very good points in general about the fundamentals of contemporary presidential campaigns.
So much of the present day “Establishment” vs. “Anti-Establishment” labeling is contrived by those who fancy themselves as opinion-makers/leaders, often times for the purpose of obfuscating a lack of substance, competence, and accomplishment. What you are saying here, I think, is that the term “Establishment” is essentially meaningless today and I agree.
May 31st, 2011 at 8:30 am
As evidenced by posters here at R42012, there are some who see tv ratings as an accomplishment in and of itself. In their parallel universe, unpredictable celebrity behaviour counts as a positive. I can assure you that nothing will be better for Mitt Romney than to have his announcement in NH juxtaposed in stark contrast to a celebrity roll-by. The people who actually vote in the NH Primary will be choosing someone to represent them against Obama. They are the least likely folks to gravitate to high drama, low predictability. Even in Iowa I suspect there will be a fair measure of eye-rolling, “there she goes again” reaction.
Sarah is reduced to stunts. We already know Sarah is good at stunts. What we wonder is whether she can come down from the stage long enough to quietly, calmly, cerebrally practice the art of statesmanlike political business. She’s playing to the audience that loves her in the way they love to be played. What would really be shocking would be for her to prove she can step away from the celebrity act.
May 31st, 2011 at 8:53 am
Jersey,
“Fredrick, there hasn’t even been a campaign…how can you tell that she is unelectable when the primaries haven’t even begun?”
Okay, but at what point- if she’s still running 10-15 points worse than other Republicans against Obama- would you decide she’s unelectable? Is there a general time frame you’re giving her in the campaign to prove her electability?
May 31st, 2011 at 9:02 am
JR – Where is Romney spending millions? They have not released any financial info. His trip through Iowa was reported as being “very lean” as is his entire campaighn structure.
Once again you prove through your criticism of Romney, you chhoose to believe and repeat the cliches, rather than educate yourself.
Sound familiar?
May 31st, 2011 at 9:03 am
Bob,
Good post. One of the conventional things I’m wondering if Palin would have the guts to do is sit down with the mainstream press for extended interviews. Will she go on Meet the Press for a half hour, or Charlie Rose, etc…..?
It’s a circuit every POTUS candidate has to work, because even though they try to stick to talking points, a good interviewer can tease out deeper answers that give us greater insight into the candidate.
If Palin Industries is afraid of edit jobs, like Gibson and Couric, that’s all the more reason to do the live shows.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:06 am
Watchingitall – Always good to read your commnets. Appreciate your clarity of thought and how you cut through the bs, to the heart of the issues.
You raise a question I have been thinking about – Who is this bus tour/unconventional campaign supposed to be attracting, aside from her base?
It’s obvious her tactics are not winning any converts on this or other sites.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:07 am
#47
Matt – Way to smoke out a possum!
May 31st, 2011 at 9:16 am
Careful Watch. Tex will accuse you of being me!
May 31st, 2011 at 9:17 am
47 at this time, Palin is bound by fox contracts that would not allow her to go on any political talk shows.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:17 am
Doug,
Yesterday, we had my parents over, and I smoked baby back ribs and chicken wings. They were awesome.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:21 am
Rightgal,
“at this time, Palin is bound by fox contracts that would not allow her to go on any political talk shows.”
Of course, but I was speaking of a hypthetical run. I think Palin herself has hinted- and many of her ‘drones have declared- that she won’t do the TV talk shows, because those people are mean and out to get her, or something like that.
I think only talking to Rush, Hannity, Levine, and Greta fits in with the “unconventional” part Bob was talking about, and will contribute to failure.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:22 am
Matt – I was in Florida visiting my wife’s riend a few years back. Her husband smoked some ribs, then wrapped them in towels while hot and wrapped the towels tightly in newspapers. He stacked them on the counter for a few hours.
WOW – they were good.
I’m sure you had delicious ones as well. I was salivating a few weeks back when you mentioned smoked duck!
May 31st, 2011 at 9:23 am
Tex, you should be banned for bringing up Palin’s family. What is it you don’t like?
May 31st, 2011 at 9:23 am
Matt first thing is first…she has to announce that she is running for President. Then she has to win the nomination. Then she has to beat President Obama. There’s still 17 months until election day 2012…still plenty of time to get her numbers up…in fact they are already starting to rise.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:24 am
53 – whoever said that? I get your schtick Matt but c’mon now?
May 31st, 2011 at 9:26 am
46 – Doug, I appreciate your tit for tat comments. I was merely guesstimating a million dollar number due to his hirings…I have no actual information how much either Romney or T-Paw have spent thus far.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:30 am
Thanks for the kind hellooo Doug NYC, and MWS is spot on about live interviews. Do ‘em or give it up. If you can’t, you don’t belong.
Isn’t the evidence in already here and what we’re seeing is a one-trick-pony with a devoted but greatly diminished following who still love the trick?
May 31st, 2011 at 9:33 am
45 – to add, I’m not thinking that far ahead. hey you guys might think I’m stupid for supporting Palin but obviously I wouldn’t support someone who I didn’t think could beat President Obama…I’m not crazy. I’ve given this a lot of thought.
All of this posturing and postulating has no bearing on the actual events that will occur. For all you know, Palin could surprise everyone and run the best campaign in modern political history. If she enters the race we already know she will get the most coverage of any candidate, which could be a major plus or a voter fatigue minus. If she utilizes the coverage and does good in the debates, which she will have plenty of opportunities to answer questions, then there’s no reason why she won’t win the nomination and change people’s mind’s in the process.
If President Obama continues with his downward spiral, there’s no reason why she cannot beat him in the general as the party unites behind her and a portion of the indie vote warms up to her. She is already beating Obama by one point with the indie vote in Ohio and she hasn’t even entered the race yet.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:36 am
59 – how is the evidence already in? The campaign hasn’t even begun yet. Your phony narrative(wishful thinking) is but a mere projection of your feelings about her not what the reality of the election will look like in 8 months…or even 3 months…or even next week…or even this Thursday…
May 31st, 2011 at 9:36 am
jersey..
I would be careful about criticizing Jonathan. He may talk to his buddy Aron (whom I have seen posting again after he was supposed to be gone) and get you banned. We all know he is all for getting rid of people who have a different opinion than he does.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:38 am
jersey,
But would there be any point in the nomination process like, say, next January where you might say, “Okay Palin had her chance to prove she can beat Obama, and she’s still running 15 points worse than others. She’s not electable….”
Or, would you continue to support her nomination and make the first test of her electability the general election?
May 31st, 2011 at 9:40 am
61. jr, you are right, I’m willing to be pleasantly surprised, and I appreciate your reasonableness.
I’m having a difficult time distancing myself from the opinions I’ve formed, but I have been surprised in the past, so I’ll leave the door ajar.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:42 am
62 – thanks for the advice, I’m not too worried about it. If a FPP cannot handle being questioned then that’s his problem not mine. If I get banned for questioning a writer’s rationale then so be it…I’ll sleep okay at night.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:51 am
63 – maybe election day…I think it’s an arbitrary question. If Palin is running 15 points behind Obama next January but she still wins the nomination, the the political posturing of the Republican party will end resulting in a closer gap…probably under 10 points and maybe even closer to 5.
If she can win the nomination, there’s no reason why she cannot win the General. That is the point, for her to win the nomination she has got to be pitch perfect. While she hones her tone, she’ll gain more and more support from her own party and from indies.
Even today Palin basically keeps Obama under 50%, which is amazing considering. She has been vetted by the media, right or wrong they have put her under the microscope. I understand name id and that she already has a lot of it but other candidates have not yet been put under the scrutiny of the MSM…so there’s no telling that they would fare any better if they were in the same position as Palin with the same name id, under the same level of scrutiny.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:54 am
64 – I appreciate that…it’s a reasonable viewpoint to have and though I can only speak for myself, as a Palin supporter, but that’s all I ask of any fellow Republican.
May 31st, 2011 at 9:55 am
MWS,
This is the difficulty. There’s never any explanation for her national polling numbers or even a plausible story about how, or when, she might improve them. There’s always “time”. Here’s what I’m confused about. Sarah Palin can draw ALL of the media, even without telling them exactly where she’s going. Her facebook posts get thousands of comments. And yet, even with all this attention, she hasn’t moved her numbers an inch. What is she waiting for? Does she have some hidden independent-vote-getting strategy she’s been saving for announcement? Why hasn’t she spent the last 2 years, when she’s been unemployed, making the case for her competency and intelligence? I’m not being facetious. I ask this question a lot and Palin supporters never have a coherent answer. What, exactly, is going to change on announcement day?
May 31st, 2011 at 9:57 am
#62 – I doubt Jonathan would advocate banning anyone. So please refrain from disparaging him.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:02 am
PREDICTION TIME:
Palin’s withholding info from the press about her stops and this merry chase she is leading, is all designed to give Talk Radio (Rush, Hannity and Levin) their taking points for the week, about how she is the only candidate…blah, blah, blah.
Look for higher than expected levels of gushing and adoration today, starting with Rush.
(I see Hannity as the male cheerleader in the white pants, v-neck sweater and magaphone, jumping up and down on the sidelines, while the football team takes the field. I jest – Sean is ok)
May 31st, 2011 at 10:11 am
What is really sad is that Palin supporters did not learn their lesson from Nevada and Delaware. You don’t nominate a loose cannon for high office — let alone in a tough state for a Republican to win. We had locks on NV and DE, that was until Palin stepped in and promoted two of the most unelectable candidates for Senate — Angle and O’Donnell. To win the Presidency, Palin will have to win a state like Nevada. She cannot. I live here. She will lose big here, no matter how bad Obama. She does not come off as a competent leader to the average voters who does not pay attention to politics. They will vote for Obama.
People who think Palin can beat Obama in a general election are delussional at best, psychotic at worst. She will be destroyed in a Barry Goldwater landslide. She is a complete JOKE to the average voter because the media has portrayed her as such. Do you people even realize what is at stake with this election??? OBAMA MUST BE DEFEATED, PERIOD.
Romney is polling very well against Obama, beating in very tough swing states like NV, NH and PA in the general. If he is competitive in those states, why are looking elsewhere to defeat Obama?
May 31st, 2011 at 10:19 am
68 – good question. For starters, conventional wisdom is she isn’t going to run. Almost every pundit, up until last week, was banking on that and commenting on that. She probably lost support to Bachman due to that narrative…if she enters the race she regains that support.
But, that isn’t really the deciding factor in most Palin supporters belief that her numbers will drastically improve. Her numbers will improve when her campaign takes shape through conventional and unconventional means. She is probably one of the best possible candidates at retail politics. She is comfortable around average, everyday Americans. A couple months ago, in an interview, she admitted that although her campaign would be unconventional, she would still have to do the conventional things a candidate does in any campaign…shake hands and talk to people at diners and public gatherings. She would have to be the worse possible politician not to gain any traction from that environment. When you couple that face time with decent debate showings…her numbers will rise.
I’m not saying it is going to be easy…it’s all on her but it is with any politician.
Also you act like any major candidate has made any major strides. Romney still is, primarily, under 20% and has been since way before Huckabee announced he wasn’t going to run. He hasn’t gained any major traction against President Obama…supposedly he’s doing all the right things…why hasn’t his numbers improved? Why is 3rd Tier candidate T-Paw still consistently polling under or around 5%…no candidate has put as much effort into a Presidential bid this go around more than T-Paw…why hasn’t his numbers improved?
These crazy rules that only apply to Palin according to the Palin detractors.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:23 am
71 – the problem with your logic Fredrick are facts…I don’t know how many times this truth has to be repeated on this site…maybe a FPP could write a post about….marK is pretty fair.
PALIN DID NOT ENDORSE ANGLE UNTIL AFTER SHE WAS NOMINATED!!!
Hell Romney endorsed Angle before Palin did…so under your logic Romney has no business running for President?
May 31st, 2011 at 10:31 am
71. Thanks for calling me delusional and psychotic. It sure feels great to be insulted by a Rombot know-it-all snob who looks down his nose at us “loons”. There is just one little problem….you got something a little wrong in your amazing rant. Palin didn’t endorse Angle until after she won the primary. I would think you would be aware of that since you live in Nevada. Oh well….better luck next time, genius.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:35 am
68. Well, you are ignoring the other side of the equation.
Palin has done a lot to “make the case” for her competency and intelligence. She can give a brilliant speech on monetary policy or energy production, and the off the cuff humor she opens with will garner all the headlines. The press routinely ignores her serious work and promotes the airhead narrative.
I want to know if you are familiar with the Journ-o-list scandal that revealed the level of coordinated press attacks on her. No one has had the treatment she has gotten, and for those who don’t understand that there is no way to explain what she has been up against.
So she has suffered from the nonstop ridicule and dishonest press. Who else has been accused of mass murder? And when she gave a heartfelt and truly moving statement after that, that polls showed moved people who actually watched it to support her, it was instantly attacked by every news outlet as ‘the wrong tone’ or she was trying to ‘insert herself into the tragedy” or she misused a phrase about antisemitism (the biggest bullsh*t meme out there).
She is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. But it has had an effect on her poll numbers.
I grow real tired of your repeatedly saying you ask this question a lot and Palin supporters never have a coherent answer, as I have answered you on this several times. It’s a coherent answer, but one you refuse to acknowledge.
I can show you reams of serious policy statements and articles she has written that do just what you say she needs to do. They have not overcome the drumbeat of negativity from the media. She will need a campaign to do that. If she can’t change the false perception people have of her, she will not win.
But you are mistaken in your perception of her abilities.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:36 am
72#
Jerseyrepublican,
Once again you miss the mark on TPAW numbers.
TPAW is posting new highs every week.
Last week Gallup at TPAW at 6% in a National poll..new high for TPAW in Gallup.
Last week TPAW posted a new high (12%)in the PPP WIS poll.
In the last PPP polls on Nevada(8%) & MIZZ(5%) TPAW posted new highs.
This week you will see TPAW posting a new high in the Iowa PPP poll.
In June of 2007 in Iowa, Romney was at 25%, while Huck was at 7%.
In June of 2011 TPAW will be closer to Romney then 18 pts in Iowa.
TPAW is rising, and I’m not sure why you can’t figure that out.
I guess you choose to be blind to the TPAW SURGE.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:36 am
“Palin didn’t endorse Angle until after she won the primary.” Shhhhh, they are not interested in the facts.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:43 am
76 – I really don’t care about the T-Paw surge. The point of my comment was not to make light of T-Paw…it’s to make light of a silly set of rules that only apply to Palin by the posters of this site.
True I believe T-Paw is a non-starter that lacks a base of support, thus having a very slim chance of winning the nomination but I am also the first person to admit that anything can change and he might find his niche’…it’s still early with plenty of time…I would say though that the T-Paw surge appears to be more of a T-Paw crawl but sometimes slow and steady wins the race.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:45 am
News from the non-campaign trail:
Palin does not support ethanol subsidies and she went a step further and called for the elimination of ALL energy subsidies.
Someone on here yesterday said the press would loss interest in following her unless she “made news.”
I have to laugh at you guys.
This is pure political genius at work.
“When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
–Jonathan Swift
May 31st, 2011 at 10:51 am
MEM,
#68 that’s how I see it.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:53 am
Telly,
#75 sounds like a long winded way of saying Palin can’t win unless the Media has a sudeen change of heart and starts treating her “fairly.”
Why should a Palindrone, of all people, bank on such a contingency?
May 31st, 2011 at 10:55 am
80. Willful ignorance.
Stay tuned.
I’m just here to help.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:55 am
Telly,
“Palin does not support ethanol subsidies and she went a step further and called for the elimination of ALL energy subsidies.”
Good to see her following TPaw’s lead on energy. She could learn a lot from him about a lot of things.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:56 am
81. That’s not what I’m saying. Please don’t try to interpret what I say, you’re not very good at it.
Try instead to read what I actually write. You’ll do better.
May 31st, 2011 at 10:58 am
Telly,
You wrote that Palin polls like crap because the media treats her badly.
That might be an explanation for why she’s where she’s at, but it says nothing about how that will change in the future. That was MEM’s question.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:01 am
C’mon Matt, Miller’s question is one-sided question that is only asked of Palin supporters. Why does Romney poll for crap…why hasn’t his numbers, drastically, improved? Why does Pawlenty poll for crap, why hasn’t his numbers, drastically, improved?
I assume you guys just enjoy riling up the Palin supporters because silence falls when facts arise.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:03 am
jersey,
I think MEM is talking about general election numbers, where Palin is persona non grata among Indies, and polls well behind other Republicans who are well known.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:04 am
jersey,
As for the Primary, I have repeatedly asked Rombots why Mitt topps out around 20% in a field that is currently filled with no names, has beens, and never wases….
May 31st, 2011 at 11:05 am
85.
Well, I’ll repeat myself for you then. (It’s a helpful way to reinforce information for slow learners)
A campaign going directly to the people will be the only way she can change the false perception.
That is why she feels the need for an unconventional campaign, she knows she cannot get a fair shake in the press. They have proved to be dishonest players with an agenda.
She has not been campaigning for the past two years, so the press has had it’s way.
If she is unable to change the perception, she will not win and you have nothing to worry about.
Was that clear, or would you like me to repeat it again?
May 31st, 2011 at 11:06 am
Matt, that’s fine but also irrelevant at this juncture. What about the last PPP Ohio poll where she beats Obama with indies?
May 31st, 2011 at 11:08 am
Telly,
“She is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t”
That may be a fair summation of Palin’s standing. But basically you’re saying her future is out of her control; that she can’t do anything more than she’s already doing, as she’s already giving intelligent answers and writing serious papers, etc…..
You’re basically saying there is nothing more Sarah can do to improve her general election numbers, and if that’s the case, she shouldn’t bother, because we can’t have a nominee relying on luck or the benevolence of the media.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:09 am
91 – slow day at work Matt?
May 31st, 2011 at 11:10 am
Jersey,
“Why does Pawlenty poll for crap, why hasn’t his numbers, drastically, improved?”
TPAW was a 1% candidate in January. TPAW’s numbers have drastically improved.
Just because you keep repeating the same falshoods do not make them true.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:12 am
91. Why do you have to rephrase what I say to fit your preconceived ideas?
I think your problem is processing new information, you really are stuck on stupid.
I’ll ask again, please, do not try to interpret what I say, you are very poor at it. Just read what I write. You will do better.
I’m just here to help.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:15 am
I like Smack!
He has stated he would support Governor Palin in the Minnesota primary after T-Paw drops out.
He is a great American!
May 31st, 2011 at 11:16 am
Smack, OMG…how many times do I have to tell you? My comments are not about T-Paw and his poor numbers. You’re right he is going to win the nomination with 5% of the vote and beat Obama with 8%. He will defy all statistics and laws of mathematics due to his Law of T-Paw Surge, which Newton’s ghost will discover right before Election Day. Do you just scour the posts for something about T-Paw without reading the actual content of the post? T-Paw was a merely an example of the anti-Palin bias that dwells on this site, which I already explained to you in comment #78.
You’re right he is getting better everyday and will probably have better numbers than Palin in this week’s Iowa PPP poll.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:22 am
tele,
I love you to man.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:23 am
MWS,
Romney’s failure to poll nationally above 20% is mysterious in light of polls where he subsequently is the best GOP competitor with Obama head to head.
But I have the answer:
Closet Rombots!
There. I’ve outed them.
And there’s plenty more where these came from!
May 31st, 2011 at 11:23 am
jersey,
I didn’t see that poll. Is it on the FP?
But I’d have to have a lot of confirmation on that poll. Palin has been consistently (much) worse than Huck or Romney in head-to-head polls against Obama for more than 2 years now.
Was she showing as well as Mitt?
May 31st, 2011 at 11:24 am
jersey,
“slow day at work Matt?”
Eh, off and on…..
May 31st, 2011 at 11:25 am
Smack,
Did you see the video at http://www.national rewiew.com Tim Pawlenty RINO.
In his own words:
He’s for Global worming scam.
He wants “universal” health care with “mandates”.
He had 1 billion,then 4 billion,then larger deficit and he talks about
that like it’s picnic.
He was all happy about and for “stimulus”.
He was making commercials for cap & Trade.
Take a look,you won’t like it,but you can see that T-Paw is not only
boring stiff,he’s RINO.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:27 am
96#
HA!
TPAW will not be up with Palin yet in Iowa, but he will be at a new high for him, that’s my point.
I get what you are saying, I’m just trying to stop a self fulfilling prophecy of the negative naarative that TPAW is not rising.
As for Palin,
I will talk about her when she hires her first state specific staffer for the primaries. Until then, she does not exist in the realm of Smackdom.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:29 am
Franklin (21): “Politics is about the art of getting attention.”
This is an interesting new formulation. I was taught the classic “Politics is the art of the possible”, but if we accept this new idea, then surely we should be grooming Lindsay Lohan for a seat in congress and a future presidential role. Nobody’s better at getting attention, right?
Watch (39): “Something does seem new to the process; the rise of celebrity/vanity candidates … Celebrity pols like Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, (and let’s throw in Trump, even though he’s not really a politician)”
Trump actually validates your first point, because once two spheres (politics and celebrity/entertainment) are equated, there can be movement in both directions. The politicians move into the entertainment field, and entertainers into politics (there actually has always been a bit of that … athletes like Kemp, Bunning, and Shuler; actors like Murphy, Reagan, and Grandy). But there used to be a line between the two spheres that seems to be blurring — this is an interesting point.
And it means there’s an opportunity for Lindsay, Franklin!
May 31st, 2011 at 11:30 am
TEX,
TPAW was a Conservative Governor.
TPAW is a Conservative man.
TPAW is a very intelligent man.
TPAW is a good man.
Any other questions.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:34 am
If it was up to some jokers on this site,we shouldn’t have elections.
Daily Kos-Soros-Alinsky-Beria-Goebbels PPP marxist push polls should
decide who is next president.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:38 am
102 – fair enough Smack. I will say this…it will be easier for me to pull the lever for Pawlenty than it will be for Romney. But I will vote for any Republican over the current White House resident.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:42 am
#73. Ok Fine. Palin didn’t endorse Angle until after the primary. Fine. The Tea Party is what got Angle the nomination. Neither did Romney. I cannot imagine him derailing Lowden or Takkanian to get the freako Angle the nomination. I live in Nevada and do not remember hearing anything like that. FACTS, if that’s what you are looking for.
However, Palin DID push for O’Donnell to get the nomination in Delaware, which was a lock to win for the Republican (RINO I know) Mike Castle. That seat was thrown away. O’Donnell had no chance of winning, the polls showed it beforehand, and O’Donnell proved to be nothing but a freak show. IMHO, she almost cost Toomey his seat in neighboring PA. The polls for him started inexplicably dropping when O’Donnell past came to light. DE and PA share the same local media. Do the math.
Palin, O’Donnell and Angle are all cut from the same cloth and are embarrassments to the Republican party. Why on Earth would we risk losing the White House in 2012 by nominating such a polarizing and un-presidential candidate like Palin?
May 31st, 2011 at 11:42 am
Smack,
T-Paw conservative?
Sure,if you compare him to Barney Frank,or Al Frank,the liberal clown
that stole Senate seat and T-Paw didn’t lift a finger to stop it,all in
the name of “getting along”-”reach across the isle”.
T-Paw by his liberal record,in his own words,is RINO,no escape from it!
May 31st, 2011 at 11:42 am
The press following her are having a blast. This thing is interesting and fun and everyone is getting a kick out of it except some of the stick-in-the-muds on Race…
Big article up at CNN:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/31/todd-palin-on-possible-2012-campaign-this-family-has-been-tested/
“Todd Palin on possible 2012 campaign: ‘This family has been tested’”
In part:
Dillsburg, Pennsylvania (CNN) – Todd Palin told a handful of reporters Tuesday that his wife will decide on her own whether or not to seek the presidency. He is not pushing her one way or the other, he said. But he emphasized that if the former Alaska governor does choose to embark on another national campaign, he and their children will be ready.
“This family has been tested,” Palin said. “When people talk about how she was just plucked up out of Wasilla, you have to look at her career. Every step in her career is another step for the family, and we were prepared.
“These kids grew up around the mayor of small town,” he added. “Local politics is in your face every day. It’s not like you get on a plane and fly to D.C. or Juneau.”
[...]
She also took several questions from reporters, as she has done at nearly every stop on the tour, including one about ethanol subsidies, a controversial topic she will surely confront if she competes in the Iowa caucuses.
Fiscal conservatives oppose the subsidies an expensive federal handout, but Iowa’s agriculture-fueled economy has depended on them for years.
Palin said she opposes energy subsidies, a statement that would put her at odds with former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, the putative frontrunner for the GOP nomination, but in line with another candidate, former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty.
“I think that all of our energy subsidies need to be re-looked at today and eliminated,” she said. “And we need to make sure that we’re investing and allowing our businesses to invest in reliable energy products right now that aren’t going to necessitate subsidies, because bottom line, we can’t afford it.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:44 am
Wouldn’t it be something if Palin’s bus rolled into Romney’s announcement at the Farm and she declared she is supporting Romney. Now that would be unconventional. Even the Rombot’s would not be able to complain that she is taking up all the free media.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:51 am
107 – according to the turnout polling on election day, Castle would have lost as well. You don’t need to tell me about the Philadelphia media…I live in South Jersey…part of the Philly media. Toomey was not going to lose because of O’Donnell…that doesn’t make any sense.
Thanks for your reply…we’re obvious at an impasse and any further discussion is just a waste of both of our time.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:53 am
This is what she wants to do, stopping for coffee in a small town.
http://www.sarahpac.com/posts/coffee-express-dillsburg-pa-5-slash-31-slash-11
Can’t do it announcing her plans. Too many people would be there. She’s doing retail politics. The old fashioned way but on her terms.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:55 am
Teledude,
I have to admit, that your explanation for Palin not making announcements regarding her stops makes a lot of sense.
If she is truly testing the waters and seeing what local folks think of her, than that is a good way to go about doing it.
So we will have to see how it works out for her. She may be pleasantly surprised at her support or very dismayed by the lack of it.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:56 am
Smack,
I’m still waiting your answer,point by point,about T-Paw’s liberal stands
while governor of liberal Minnesota.
I don’t want to hear how nice guy he is,I don’t care about that.
May 31st, 2011 at 11:57 am
via twitter:
RealClearScott Scott Conroy
Appreciate the Paparazzi references but would point out that we’re asking Palin about policy at every stop. And she is answering eagerly.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Telly,
“I think your problem is processing new information, you really are stuck on stupid.”
You wrote, “She is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t.”
When people say that, they usually mean a cause is hopeless, or at least there is nothing a person can do to make it come out right. Of course, that’s just my “interpretation.”
I supposed you could have intended those words to mean, “Sarah Palin is so awesome, and everyone wants to bear her children!”
May 31st, 2011 at 12:05 pm
112 – I just glanced at those pictures. One thing I noticed, which might just be me reading too much into things but when she makes these stops at the historic locations, she is dressed as a Presidential candidate would dress not a vacationer. I don’t know if everybody knows this but it has been hovering around 90 degrees, with high humidity, for the past week or so around here, a skirt suit is not the most comfortable of attire in this heat…again I am probably just reading too much into it.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:08 pm
116. Okay Matt, I guess I will have to be more precise with you.
I admit struggling to communicate with ignorant literalists as I often speak above their level of comprehension. I’m working on it.
Let me clarify for you.
“She is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t — in the press.
Hence the need to go around the press and straight to the electorate in an unconventional campaign.
As it was the topic I was discussing I assumed the implication was understood. Sorry for not being more clear for people like you. I will try to do better.
If you’re still not grasping it, perhaps you should move on to another topic.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:10 pm
TEX,
You forgot that TPAW loves Sharia law as well.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:13 pm
Tex,
Considering you have like, zero credibility around here, you’re going to need to provide links for those claims. Even the comment was self contradictory, you wrote’ “In his own words…” and then didn’t quote “his own words” but just wrote your characterization of his actions. I know at least a couple of those charaterizations are grossly misleading or flat out wrong.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:15 pm
JR (60): “hey you guys might think I’m stupid for supporting Palin”
Actually, no. Mistaken on this point, but not stupid.
I’ve several times said that I wished there was an intelligent Palin poster at R412 who could express reasonable arguments on her behalf. Ever since Kris Lorelli left there’s been … well, you’ve read the trash that’s generally posted here by her supporters — it’s embarrassing.
I hope you will post more often.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:17 pm
T-Prawns starting to panic a little I think.
Getting awful testy.
heh heh
May 31st, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Telly,
“Hence the need to go around the press and straight to the electorate in an unconventional campaign.”
I see. So what is she going to do to reach 300 million people that she isn’t doing now, without the press? And how will this nullify and then reverse the awesome branding power that the press has thus far wielded against her?
All you’re really saying is, “Palin’s going to do some awesome stuff, like she has all along, and people will change their opinion of her, despite the press, which is responsible for people not appreciating the awesome stuff that she’s been doing all along….. and will continue to do….. in such awesomely awesome ways that the press won’t be able to hold her back anymore, like they’ve been doing……”
May 31st, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Tweet from PPP,
“Gingrich favorability with Minnesota Republicans is 35/40. Was also under water with GOP on our national/WI polls last week”
Gingrich is another example of why I would rather be a candidate with a low NAME ID but with good FAV/UNFAVS numbers, then a candidate with a high NAME ID with horrible FAV/UNFAVS numbers, such as what Gingrich is dealing with right now.
Some candidates are now laying the ground work to be better known by the voters with hopefully a positive first imprint, some are trying to turn an already negative impression of them into a positive one.
Which one do you think is easier to do ?
May 31st, 2011 at 12:21 pm
Bob Really?
Thanks.
Of course the Palin detractors here are not an embarrassment. Of course not.
If my posts are an embarrassment it’s only due to the level I have to stoop to to defend the ignorance that is spewed on this site.
I guess the old canard about arguing with idiots is true.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:24 pm
124
Comments like these make me really want this campaign to get underway.
We will all stop boasting about our candidates and we will see what REALLY happens.
I can’t wait till the June 13 debate.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Telly,
#125 Would be another excellent reason to stay with your peers over at C4P.
Here we’re all hopelessly stupid. As your dear cyber-friend, I am selflessly begging you to stay away from here, and all of the idiocy.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:40 pm
121 – I wouldn’t say it was embarrassing as much as it is baited by the regulars. It’s obvious you guys get a kick out of riling up us Palin supporters. You guys know exactly which buttons to push and probably share a chuckle about it at the local, virtual watering hole. I appreciate the kind remarks but, if I were you, I’d pay more attention to some things Teledude says, his predictions have been pretty spot on since he started posting here a few months ago. He also has a great blog you guys should check out. I mean he gives a lot of traffic to this site…it’s only polite to return in kind?
Sure I might not share the same tact as some of my fellow Palin supporters but I rarely disagree with them and if I do it is not based on their positions…most of the time. Also Franklin, I feel should be promoted to a FPP…he consistently makes valid points and reasoned arguments and I can tell he makes sense to a lot of the old school regulars because you guys rarely question his input…I mean where’s the fun in that?
I’m sure you remember I’ve been a “regular” commenter around here since 2008, I plan on sticking around a bit, unless I get banned…which wouldn’t be the first time.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:41 pm
Matt,
Here it is: http://www.nationalreview.com/
Go there and see the video,listen T-Paws own words.It’s all there.
“Considering you have like, zero credibility around here,”
===========================================
Like around who?Beard scratchers that are never right about anything?
Ha,ha,ha…
May 31st, 2011 at 12:50 pm
“Can’t we all just get along.” Rodney King 1992
I’m just here to help.
Nice post jersey, thanks!
May 31st, 2011 at 1:01 pm
via Twitter
iowahawkblog David Burge
Breaking: bus containing irrelevant laughing woman chased by angry camera-wielding zombie army of the undead
May 31st, 2011 at 1:04 pm
131 – LOL, Isn’t that the plot of Bailey’s next book?
May 31st, 2011 at 1:09 pm
111-Typical Palin excuse and just as she told it on Fox News. What a pathetic lame excuse. Mike Castle was a LOCK on that seat. Even Beau Biden refused to run against Castle for that seat. He knew he would lose it against Castle. The polls showed before the nomination Castle 16% up over Coons. The polls also showed O’Donnell would to Coons by 16% and that she did just that. Castle was a very well respected politician by Delaware voters.
After O’Donnell destroyed the Republican brand in Delaware, of course the exit polls would reflect Castle losing. Voters were then associating Castle as a genric Republican vote (aka O’Donnell). SHE DAMAGED THE BRAND!!!
Face it — Palin helped us throw away that seat. And yes, it does make sense to say that O’Donnell nearly cost Toomey his seat. She damaged the Republican brand, and became a national embarrassment/freakshow. He was for weeks and weeks around 9% up over the Dem candidate (whatever his name was) and it wasn’t until O’Donnell came around looking like a complete fool did his polling numbers start dropping and the conservative media had no idea why that was happening.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:17 pm
via Twitter:
NolteNC John Nolte
Those of you who don’t think Palin can beat Obama… You watching her outfox MSM and GOP Establishment, right now? We should all be so dumb.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:22 pm
133 – Thanks. I was just going topost a similar rebuttal. Had they left Castle alone, the dynamics of the race would have stay the way they were BEFORE O’Donnell wreacked havoc.
Not saying Castle was the best guy, but he was the best guy to hold the seat.
Now we don’t. Nice going.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:22 pm
133 – typical Rombot – angry about everything, trying to say all of the problems in the Republican Party are due to Sarah Palin. The problem with people like you are that you obviously understand about politics but you let your personal opinions cloud any rational thought you might have.
The problem with your rationale is that if Castle was such a great candidate and O’Donnell was such a horrific candidate then why did Castle lose to O’Donnell in the first place? I know because of Sarah Palin…because she has so much influence in a blue state filled with moderate Republicans.
What’s with all the anger…are you starting to get a little worried that your boy Mitt might not have the cake walk you thought he would have…and let me guess it just isn’t fair?
May 31st, 2011 at 1:25 pm
To add, I am a moderate Republican and even I know that Castle was a lost cause…he lost because he let go of the most basic of Republican principles years ago…he was going along to get along.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Also, it’s amazing how it is Palin’s fault that O’Donnell and Angle ran horrible general election campaigns…you guys are so ridiculous!!!
May 31st, 2011 at 1:27 pm
133. Chill out man….you are foaming at the mouth. You should be careful…that foam may cause your Rombot circuits to short out. Why do you let Palin get to you if she and her supporters are as “stupid and psychotic” as you say they are?
As for Castle….I will agree that he had a better chance of winning that seat than O’Donnell but don’t expect me to cry a river for a little RINO that would have voted with the Dems more times than not. Maybe if he and the Republican party in Delaware would have helped O’Donnell in the general election instead of whining like little babies, the results could have been closer. Instead, they took their ball and went home…..just like other moderate, establishment types when they don’t get their way.
So tell me Freddy…what would you do with Palin and her supporters (that you clearly despise) who don’t agree with you….purge them from the party?
A.J.R.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:30 pm
139 – good point AJR…I forgot about that. After Castle lost, he refused to endorse O’Donnell or appear at any events with her. The Delaware Republican Party shunned her so they can continue to get the crumbs from Biden and the Dems.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:30 pm
135. You have to wonder if the establishment GOP’s actions created a self fulfilling prophecy.
The night O’Donnell won her primary Rove was on national TV trashing her. The GOP made it well known they did not support her.
That kind of thing doesn’t help.
Say what you want before the primary, but after the people have spoken it’s time to rally around the candidate and support the party nominee.
This is what conservatives are always told when presented with the unending parade of squishes like, Dole and McCain.
I wonder if some of the tens of millions of dollars the party wasted on Fiorina might not have helped a little.
And had O’Donnell won, how would that have hurt the party?
She would have been a reliable conservative vote. What else do Senators do?
You guys and your elitist snobbery is what cost us the seat, just as much as the Palin endorsement.
Besides, most on here give Palin zero credit for influencing the 2010 races whenever I point out the vast majority of her endorsed candidates won.
Can’t have it both ways.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:32 pm
138. I know what you mean. Freddy will probably develop an ulcer…and it will be Palin’s fault.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:35 pm
141. You are so right about Fiorina. The GOP blew millions (I think it was $5 million to be exact) in the last days of that race. If they would have spend that money in Nevada, Colorado and Washington state….the GOP could have won more seats.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Whatever…Fredrick doesn’t let facts get in the way of his tirades…an hour ago he wasn’t aware that Palin didn’t endorse Angle in the primary. He also wasn’t aware that Mitt endorsed Angle before Palin did…in fact his perverted mind probably believes Romney was brave for endorsing Angle before Palin but it is Palin’s fault because she endorsed Angle after Romney, which led to the loss because of Palin…
May 31st, 2011 at 1:37 pm
I have to go to the store after work…its all Sarah Palin’s fault
May 31st, 2011 at 1:38 pm
143 – I think we owe Fredrick an apology…if it weren’t for his exercise of angered thought, he wouldn’t have reminded us that the losses in 2010 could have been thwarted if not for the establishment once again getting something wrong and wasting money.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:40 pm
146. You are right JR. I’m sorry Freddy.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:41 pm
A day in the life of Fredrick. He drives to work and is cut off by another driver…he mumbles to himself…”Sarah Palin’s fault.” When he gets to work his boss yells at him for his poor work, he mumbles to himself…”Effin Sarah Palin.” Later in the day, he poops his pants…Obviously…”Damn you Sarah Palin!!!”
May 31st, 2011 at 1:44 pm
The moral of the story being…angry Rombots always poop their pants and blame Sarah Palin…well that depends.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:46 pm
Gzzt…..Rombot Fredrick….cease all audio and typing communications….Gzzt…You are allowing the Palin drones to make you look inept….Gzzt…..That is illogical and counterproductive to the goals of the Great Romney…….Gzzt…..Palin Prime will be vanquished…Gzzt….And if she is not….Gzzt…it will be because of defective Rombots like yourself and unfair treatment…..Gzzt….
May 31st, 2011 at 1:47 pm
150 – haha
May 31st, 2011 at 1:50 pm
148 & 149. LOL.
Freddy’s Mom: “Freddy dear, did you poop your pants again?”
Freddy: “Yes…but it was all Palin’s fault!!!”
Freddy’s Mom: “Stop blaming Palin beause you can’t hold it in.”
Freddy: “Yes, Mommy!!!”
May 31st, 2011 at 1:50 pm
148 & 149. LOL.
Freddy’s Mom: “Freddy dear, did you poop your pants again?”
Freddy: “Yes…but it was all Palin’s fault!!!”
Freddy’s Mom: “Stop blaming Palin because you can’t hold it in.”
Freddy: “Yes, Mommy!!!”
May 31st, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Sorry about the double post.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Here’s Rombots logic:
Romney is next in line,he should get the nomination,not Sarah Palin.
It aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain’t faaaaaaaaaaaaaair!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 31st, 2011 at 1:53 pm
153 – haha.
Alright I gotta run…later guys.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:53 pm
155
It’s more like… Romney is the best for the job and Palin could never win the independent vote.
May 31st, 2011 at 1:55 pm
If I remember right, Palin and Romney were generally endorsing the same people last year…even in the primaries.
Maybe they get along much better than their supporters here do?
May 31st, 2011 at 1:56 pm
157. Congratulations!
You have correctly parroted the narrative.
We are all proud of you.
That independent thought is so overrated!
May 31st, 2011 at 2:00 pm
158. I would agree with that. I can’t think of one time that either one of them ever said anything bad about the other.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:01 pm
159
I don’t care if it is a common thought.
It is common knowledge that the moon revolves around the Earth. When someone is arguing something ridiculous, you have to make your point.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:08 pm
These reports I’m seeing about the bus tour are impossible.
Crowds of average citizens and hordes of media should be swarming around “serious” candidates like Mitt Romney and Tim Pawlenty wherever they go.
Sarah Palin mobbed at Philadelphia stops
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55919.html
When was the last time Pawlenty was ‘mobbed?’
LOL
May 31st, 2011 at 2:14 pm
162
Palin gets mobbed because she was the VP nominee and was in the spotlight for the last 3 years.
Keep raising expectations for your candidate. Keep dreaming.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:18 pm
Rombots only want Obama and his agenda defeated. But when Palindrones help get LOSERS like Angle and O’Donnell nominated…well, there’s the threat. Palindrones need to learn to play political chessand and stop playing checkers. I know, I know however, that’s WAY out of their intellectual capacity.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Frankly, I am glad Romney is not a political celebrity like Palin. Palin is proving her adoring fans are no different than the mindless O-bots that terrorized the nation in 2008. Palin’s fans need to just get a life and quit mobbing their “godess”.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:25 pm
164-
If you can keep up that level of intensity for another year and a half that would be awesome!!
If you could direct it in a positive direction, that would be even better.
And, easy on the Angle bashing. I’ve met her. She represented my area in the State Assembly. She’s good people.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:28 pm
164. You need to revisit post # 141.
Enlightenment is a good thing.
You can thank me later.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:34 pm
165. Hey genius, you spelled goddess wrong. It is two d’s, not one. Considering you are so much “smarter” that us stupid Palin supporters, you sure have a hard time with spelling…and facts. You already forgot that Angle won the primary before Palin endorsed her. I’ll let you get back to feeling smarter than the rest of us….don’t poop your pants again Freddy.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:37 pm
165. I forgot to ask…what is your master plan for us “dumb” Palin supporters if we don’t do what yow want? I know one thing…..if I do what you want, my spelling will get wurse….Oh no, its already startin.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Mitt Romney admits he’s a big fan of ‘Twilight’
My first thought…are you SERIOUS?
this is not helpful.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:42 pm
165. Its funny that you are proud to basically be called a droid. I am nobody’s drone…I am a Palin supporter, not a Palindrone.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:43 pm
TEX,
Out of your whole stupid video, the only legit thing was global warming/cap and trade. Pawlenty said he was wrong about that. Sarah Palin was in favor of capping carbon emissions as late as Fall ’08. Has she said she was wrong yet?
The rest was either a complete misrepresentation (Pawlenty said he supported a stimulus not Obama’s, or jerked out of context (the projected deficit, which Pawlenty closed, as he balanced every one of his budgets).
Do you stand with Palin on capping emissions, giving Wall Street bailouts, and her original support for pork barrel projects like the Bridge To Nowhere?
May 31st, 2011 at 2:44 pm
“Mobbed” by 200 REPORTERS and supporters. (Whats the ratio I wonder?)
Take care note of the pictures and news clips of the news coverage. Be sure to look at the backgrounds – replay a few times if you must. I notided it this morning.
Is “mobbed” the right term or journalistic hyperpoble?
Reminds me of a Nor’easter we had a few years back here in NYC. I live out by the ocean, right off the boardwalk of the neach in fact. I woke up the morning of the Nor’easter, to see the local Channel 7 news truck out on the oardwalk. I turned to the channel and in a few moments they began a live report from the boardwalk.
The shot was an extremly tight close up of a wid blown, hooded reporter, saying things were really “rough” out here. As I stood in front of the TV I looked right out my window to see the reporter, hunched in front of the camera. It was a little “rough” out there, especially for the guy on his bike, a women walking her dog and several other pedestrian waiting to pass by, after the reporter was done.
Something to keep in mind when reading these reports, fellas.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Teledude – Seriously?
This is old news. He happens to know the author very well in fact. He mentioned this last year on his book tour.
Just trying to help those who can’t help themselves.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:51 pm
jersey,
“It’s obvious you guys get a kick out of riling up us Palin supporters. You guys know exactly which buttons to push and probably share a chuckle about it at the local, virtual watering hole.”
All true.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:52 pm
174. Good to know.
Can you do something with Fredrick? He seems to meet the qualifier.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:55 pm
200 “reporters and supporters” LOL!
The little fundraiser, rally I worked for Buchanan ’96 in podunk Jacksonville, IL (in the middle of nowhere) did better than that!
mobbed. LOL!
According to TEX’s never-miss predictions (he’s the one who accurately predicted she’d lose 80% of her support after all), she’s supposed to be filling stadiums.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:59 pm
173. Good thing she shows up unannounced, just like I said. Otherwise the crowds would be way too large.
Thanks for making my point…yeah, I agree the media doesn’t get it right very often do they?
Nice pics here:
http://www.sarahpac.com/posts/liberty-bell-philadelphia-pa-5-slash-31-slash-11
May 31st, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Any random photo of our local park would have about as many people in the frame as that Politico photo.
mobbed.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:00 pm
177. Seek help, dude.
This can’t be a productive use of your time.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:01 pm
179. Just shows how reliable Politico is.
Good point.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Tele,
“Thanks for making my point…yeah”
Your point in #162 was that Palin wasn’t mobbed? Your point was that her crowd was actually kind of lame, but that’s only because she had the decency to not announce her plans ahead of time?
Really?
You’re right, I do have a hard time “interpreting” you.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Telly,
You’re flipping faster on this Politico piece than Sarah did on the Bridge to Nowhere.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:06 pm
182. You have a really interesting trolling style.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:09 pm
#166. I am sure Angle is a good person. That’s not the issue. She was a LOUSY candidate.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Telly,
Those photos in #178 don’t look like a mob scene either.
In fact, I don’t think I saw enough people in the video or the photos to fill a bus.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:10 pm
What could it mean?
Sarah Palin to meet with Donald Trump
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55953.html
May 31st, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Cain is in 2nd place in Iowa according to PPP. Bad new for better known grass-roots candidates like Palin & Bachmann.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Upon further reflection, I think mobbed is a verb.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:16 pm
188. But there is one problem with your bad news theory…
Palin and Bachmann aren’t candidates.
Pawlenty is though…
Not that anyone has noticed
heh heh
May 31st, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Telly,
Now you’re boasting about Palin meeting with a snack oil salesman like Trump?
Do you think about the links you post ahead of time?
May 31st, 2011 at 3:40 pm
191. I report, you decide.
Not boasting…I asked a question.
What is your reply?
May 31st, 2011 at 3:44 pm
Telly,
It means Sarah needs to find new friends.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:45 pm
It could also mean Palin is angling for a spot on Celebrity Apprentice.
May 31st, 2011 at 3:46 pm
What could it mean?
Sarah Palin to meet with Donald Trump
Maybe they’ll announce a plan to organize the Reality Show Caucus of the Republican Party?
May 31st, 2011 at 3:54 pm
All interesting answers.
Aren’t we having fun now?
May 31st, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Bob,
Boston Rob for Secretary of State!!!
May 31st, 2011 at 4:08 pm
I like Boston Rob – Best Survivor player ever!
May 31st, 2011 at 4:09 pm
No matter how you look at it — it’s official. Palin is turning GOP Presidential politics into a total circus.
May 31st, 2011 at 4:24 pm
I just can’t stop smiling.
May 31st, 2011 at 4:31 pm
I have to agree with this foreign policy position released today:
After learning this afternoon of Afghan President Karzai’s ultimatum to NATO concerning airstrikes, we need to consider how dangerous this new development is. While it’s always devastating to hear about civilians killed in the fight against the Taliban, President Karzai surely knows that no one works harder to eliminate civilian casualties than NATO.
His public ultimatum issued today to allies and supposed friends is dangerous. What President Karzai is saying is that if we don’t severely limit our air campaign he will take “unilateral action.” And he further says that if the airstrikes continue we will be seen as an “occupying” power. This is an indirect way of saying that American and NATO forces will be fair game, which is obviously an unacceptable situation that threatens our troops.
His comments reflect the reality that there is a growing divide between NATO and the Karzai government.
Let us be clear: we are in Afghanistan fighting for the Afghan people and for the security of our country and our allies. If President Karzai continues with these public ultimatums, we must consider our options about the immediate future of U.S. troops in his country.
If he actually follows through on his claim that Afghan forces will take “unilateral action” against NATO forces who conduct such air raids to take out terrorists and terrorist positions, that should result in the immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan and the suspension of U.S. aid.
I still firmly support our mission in Afghanistan, but we must have the support of the host government. Our troops’ mission will be compromised and their safety endangered if the Afghan government threatens us.
– Sarah Palin
May 31st, 2011 at 4:39 pm
“Let us be clear”
I thought Obama trademarked that line?
May 31st, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Telly,
If we’re there to fight terrorists, as Sarah says, why would she make the future of our national security contingent on whether Karzai likes us?
May 31st, 2011 at 4:42 pm
…..and does Palin really think we can’t defeat the Afghan government?
That’s never been the problem….
Why would she cut and run based on their government “endangering” our troops? Good grief, Sarah, the Taliban government “endangered” our troops.
May 31st, 2011 at 5:12 pm
She’s certainly drawing a distinction between her views and the neocon view.
The American public’s patience is not limitless. Why did he feel the need to go public? Is this public ultimatum simply political posturing?
We need a strong decisive voice on foreign policy.
I must have missed it, but what is T-Paws position on this issue?
May 31st, 2011 at 5:14 pm
It’s the usual mishmash of incoherence we have come to expect from Palin: “we are in Afghanistan fighting … for the security of our country” — but we should withdraw if Karzai doesn’t want us there.
Huh?
Is Afghanistan important to our security? If so, why would we leave? If not, why would we stay?
May 31st, 2011 at 5:17 pm
So…T-Paws position?
May 31st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Steven Tyler gets mobbed when he goes out. Although I’m an aerosmith fan, Not presidential material. (but he would light up the WH with his fashion instincts!) Paris Hilton gets mobbed. Not presidential material. Many celeb’s go out and get mobbed by adoring fans. But I won’t be voting for a celeb, but for a candidate of substance. Mitt Romney.
May 31st, 2011 at 5:27 pm
175, cheap entertainment!
May 31st, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Don’t know … I’ll wait to hear it as one of the questions in deciding whether to support him. Whether I agree with it or not, I would expect it to be at least logical, unlike Palin’s.
How do you reconcile the inconsistencies of Palin’s position with your support for her and your statement that “We need a strong decisive voice on foreign policy”?
May 31st, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Threatening Karzai with the withdrawal of all US aid is a strong and decisive position.
If he was just posturing for political reasons that’s one thing. If he is serious about threatening our troops then he has to understand the consequences. We’ve been there long enough. There may only be a dozen or less Al Qieda left in that country.
I doubt we will get that clarity or resolve from Obama.
May 31st, 2011 at 5:46 pm
But if Afghanistan is vital to our security, why would she leave?
“I doubt we will get that clarity or resolve from Obama.”
Actually, this is exactly the sort of incoherent double-talk I would expect from Obama.
May 31st, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Is Afghanistan still vital to our security?
I don’t see this as “incoherent’ like you do. We are now there in support of the Karzai government. If he is hostile to our presence that’s great, see ya.
She is opposed to ‘open ended’ military engagements. If we don’t have a clear reason for being there we shouldn’t be there.
We have now been in Afghanistan longer than we were in Vietnam…what is our goal at this point? Osama is dead, the Taliban has been shot to hell, if the host government doesn’t want us there, why stay?
I think it’s a great position. What is “incoherent” is keeping troops there taking casualties for no rational reason.
May 31st, 2011 at 6:08 pm
She’s the one who says it’s important to our security. Reread the statement you say you like: “Let us be clear: we are in Afghanistan fighting for the Afghan people and for the security of our country and our allies.” But then she says we should withdraw.
I could easily agree with a position, as you say, that Afghanistan is no longer vital and we should withdraw. I would be open to listening to argument that it is important to us and that we should stay.
But when someone says it’s important and we should leave — I think it’s fair to call that incoherent.
May 31st, 2011 at 6:17 pm
So if Karzai is serious we should go to war with the fledgling Afghanistan government?
I don’t think the world is as black and white as you are trying to imply for the weak political point you’re trying to make.
If they don’t want us there, we needn’t stay. If they want us there we can strengthen their efforts and help keep our country safer by assisting their military against the Taliban.
You are completely ignoring her call to suspend US aid, which is how she would coerce him to back down on his threat that may just be posturing for his people.
May 31st, 2011 at 6:33 pm
She says Afghanistan is important to our security
She says we should leave.
Reconcile those points.
May 31st, 2011 at 6:34 pm
I would love to see the IP address of where the facebook post came from.(I’m sure it didn’t come from the bus.) Rebecca Mansour is usually more coherent than this post indicates. I bet $arah will be PO’ed when she hears about it!
May 31st, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Sarah Palin is decisive and brilliant.
As you all know,Sarahcuda takes no crap from nobody.
She’s telling Karzai that he will play by our rules as long as we are there, or American troops will leave(they should anyway) his primitive,hopeless hellhole.Then he will be hung by Taliban.
Sarah Palin is giving Karzai ultimatum!Either way,America wins!
By talking about immediate withdraw,she’s telling us where she really stands.It’s been 10 years,time to come home.
Time to use “seals” and special forces,hunt down the terrorists and kill
them.
May 31st, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Bob, it’s all in this sentence.
I still firmly support our mission in Afghanistan, but we must have the support of the host government.
What alternative is there?
IndianaLiz, she has been posting from the bus since this tour started.
So cynical…
May 31st, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Palin and Trump having pizza…
http://twitpic.com/5585r0
May 31st, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Afghanistan is important for US security?
So is Pakistan,even more so.
Pakistan is full of muslim terrorists,by far much more than Afghanistan.
Taliban is not Al-Qa’ida,it consists mostly of “Allah-u- Akbar” 7th
century primitives.
After 9/11 Mulah Omar offered US to kick Osama out of the country.
Bush and the rest of neocon morons insisted that Taliban hands over Osama.
Taliban has no money,they have nothing,but they have pride.They refused.
That’s why we are still there.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:04 pm
“By talking about immediate withdraw,she’s telling us where she really stands.”
Good for her, but then why is she saying being there is important to our security?
May 31st, 2011 at 7:05 pm
I just wish she would tell the truth. She knows darn well if she is running or not. I’m really getting tired of this cat and mouse game she is playing. This whole “will she or won’t she”. I agree with Tim Pawlenty at this point. He said “We need to quit worrying about polls and bus tours and get on to the issue of how we’re going to fix the country,” former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty said in an interview with MSNBC.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:06 pm
Tele,
rightgal,Ellie,Liz,IndianaLiz is the same hateful,wretched character.
She’s been barred several times for viciously attacking Palin children.
Don’t pay attention what this Obama troll says,yes,she voted for Obama in 2008.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:09 pm
223. funny you would show up in this thread then.
#oddhappenstance
May 31st, 2011 at 7:11 pm
219 — So we should withdraw if Karzai doesn’t support us, even though being there is important to our security? In a Palin Administration, therefore, Karzai’s opinions would trump America’s security interests.
Give it up, T-Dude — her statement is internally inconsistent. Nothing new for Palin, because she has never taken the time to carefully think anything through. When she begins doing so, she may be qualified for the presidency. But not until she does a lot better than this.
By the way, can you provide a link for that statement? I want to bookmark it as an example of her incompetence.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:16 pm
“Good for her, but then why is she saying being there is important to our security?”
===================================
It IS important,but not under any and all circumstances.
Sarah Palin is American nationalist,but she has nothing in common
with stupid,self destructive,moronic neocons.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:17 pm
Relax Teledude and Tex. I truly am none of those people you mention. And I am not hateful, or wretched. I have never been barred and would never attach any children!!! I’ve got a busy life and only check in here periodically. I must admit when I do, it’s so much fun making snide comments about Palin to see your reaction.
But in reality, I do like Sarah Palin alot. I think she has alot to offer. I just don’t think at this point in time, she is ready to be president. I could support her running for senator, maybe then she would know what a vice-president does!!
May 31st, 2011 at 7:22 pm
Sarah Palin has more wisdom and more courage in her little finger than
all squishy,spineless RINOS combined.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:24 pm
I just can’t stop smiling.
this is a hoot!
May 31st, 2011 at 7:25 pm
228 — Don’t worry, IndyLiz, everybody here knows you’re not that Liz — except Tex and T-Dude.
May 31st, 2011 at 7:27 pm
Thanks Bob. How nice to see a friendly response for a change!
May 31st, 2011 at 7:59 pm
I have been a perfect gentleman.
June 1st, 2011 at 6:16 am
231 – yeah Bob there are so many Liz Palin haters that happen to hang around Race? Talk about incoherent statements.
June 1st, 2011 at 6:20 am
Also, you can push buttons all you want and it might make certain Palin supporters mad but there is nothing incoherent about that statement. She is acknowledging the importance to US security, having a US military presence in Afghanistan is BUT we are not occupying their country and there is no need to continue to stay there AND give AID to the Karzai Government if he is going to use his political office as a podium to threaten and push the US Government. Obviously he sees our President as weak and he is using that weakness to gain political clout in Afghanistan…
What’s not to understand?
June 1st, 2011 at 6:41 am
To add, Karzai was never a good choice by the Bush Administration but they chose him anyway because they felt they could control him…it didn’t take long to realize that they were wrong about him as they were with most of their picks.
June 1st, 2011 at 7:25 am
We didn’t need the approval of Afghanistan’s government in 2001 to press our national security interests. In fact, as I recall, that Afghani government was quite…… hostile…… to our intentions there.
I don’t particularly believe Afghanistan is a pressing security issue for us at this point. Sarah does. So why does she make defending national security contingent upon the approval of corrupt 3rd world rulers?
June 1st, 2011 at 7:27 am
jersey,
One thing I learned loooong ago….. You don’t give an ultimatum you’re not willing to follow through on. Sarah issued a would be ultimatum (if she were President) on our presence there, as well as aid. I get the aid part. But if she thinks troops there are important to our national security, why would she allow Karzai to decide which “important” national security threats we address?
June 1st, 2011 at 7:29 am
Once an ultimatum is issued, the party who is given the ultimatum has all the power. They alone decide what happens next, and what they issuer of the ultimatum will do.
By issuing that ultimatum, Sarah basically said it’s up to Karzai- and Karzai alone- if we stay. Either that, or she was bluffing. The trouble with bluffing is if you get exposed, then you lose all credibility.
June 1st, 2011 at 7:42 am
Matt, by your last statement I can only assume that you have never given an ultimatum to a woman…trust me it never works out to well.
June 1st, 2011 at 7:54 am
Matt, in your 237 comment you are comparing the ousted Tabibani Government that was harboring Bin Laden to the current, sovereign democracy?
In your 238 statement, you mention that you never give ultimatums that you’re not willing to follow through on, yet you continue to only question Palin’s response to the initial Karzai ultimatum? It doesn’t make much sense to me to question the response to an ultimatum?
As a nation, are we not supposed to be strong and resolute when threats and ultimatums are catapulted at us?
I think what you’re seeing from Palin is a gentle, yet strong, reminder that we have the upper hand yet with shared interests in the region. I actually think she should have added to her initial response that the NATO forces, led by the US, continues to provide the Karzai Government with the support they need to stay both relevant and afloat in the region.
Gentle but strong…a friendly hand shake with a firm grip.
June 1st, 2011 at 8:00 am
Matt, I reread your 239 statement and I continue to be bewildered that you are defining ultimatums without acknowledging the initial ultimatum from Karzai? This discussion is moot without it and your argument is subjective by lacking the initial reason that Palin offered a hypothetical response to Karzai’s ultimatum. So by your account…the question remains…is Karzai bluffing?
June 1st, 2011 at 8:57 am
jersey,
“Matt, by your last statement I can only assume that you have never given an ultimatum to a woman…trust me it never works out to well.”
LOL! I try to avoid them……
June 1st, 2011 at 9:09 am
jersey,
“Matt, in your 237 comment you are comparing the ousted Tabibani Government that was harboring Bin Laden to the current, sovereign democracy?”
That would require a pretty loose definition of “democracy,” but yes, in the sense that both would be taking arms against us in this scenario.
“I think what you’re seeing from Palin is a gentle, yet strong, reminder that we have the upper hand yet with shared interests in the region.”
Issuing ultimatums in public is not gentle. A firm reminder through diplomatic channels regarding what is at stake for Karzai would have been the proper response. Middle East leaders have their own internal political concerns, and forcing them to act obsequious to us in public is generally not a good thing.
“Matt, I reread your 239 statement and I continue to be bewildered that you are defining ultimatums without acknowledging the initial ultimatum from Karzai?”
When you answer an ultimatum with your own ultimatum, you escalate the stakes and the tension. It’s like re-raising someone in poker. By issuing a counter-ultimatum Palin not only punts the decision back to Karzai regarding what we do, but is now requiring him to admit he was bluffing, if we are to stay in Afghanistan fighting those terrorists. In other words, she is now requiring Karzai to publicly abase himself as a condition for us continuing to fight the terrorists. Not wise, if we prioritize national security over humiliating foreign leaders.
Palin would escalate the situation when the President- through diplomatic channels- shoud be defusing it, recognizing the enormous internal pressure Karzai is under to publically respond to the loss of civilians.
June 1st, 2011 at 9:19 am
Matt, you’re assuming that President Palin would be so publicly outspoken as…not-quite candidate Palin is. As most candidates, in the past, have done, they publicly show a strong hand when discussing foreign policy but most likely will privately show that same strength if they enter the Oval Office. Nothing new here.
June 1st, 2011 at 9:24 am
jersey,
The fact remains that she is making the fulfillment of what she considers our national security interests contingent upon Karzai’s approval.
What if he is trying to get rid of us? Palin would be giving him an easy way to do so.
June 1st, 2011 at 9:35 am
Matt, I think you’re searching for reasons to be against Palin here because you are so used to doing it. All Palin did was show she would have a strong response to such an ultimatum. If Karzai is a reasonable person/leader he knows that, we know, his continued leadership in Afghanistan, is contingent upon our support and aid.
June 1st, 2011 at 9:41 am
246 – Matt, I highly doubt he’s trying to get rid of us. I assume he is trying to gain some respect from the tribal regions and doubting factions of his own government that he is but a mere political stooge of the US. But if that were his intentions, I’m sure the Pentagon would be aware of that and that info, only a President would have, would be put into consideration by a President Palin. I know the popular thought is that Palin is uninformed and a loose canon but c’mon I cannot believe that you completely think that?
June 1st, 2011 at 10:19 am
jersey,
“I assume he is trying to gain some respect from the tribal regions and doubting factions of his own government that he is but a mere political stooge of the US.”
That would be my assumption as well. In such a scenario- assuming we want to stay there and kill terrorists- the proper response is to either ignore his posturing, or work out a deal through diplomatic channels where he gets some symbolic concession to save face, and we keep doing what we want to do.
June 1st, 2011 at 10:39 am
Matt, I agree. I think Palin would agree as well. This year the Republican candidate has a nice opportunity that only happens during incumbent elections. The candidate has the opportunity to publicly question the incumbents strategy that they probably aren’t able to announce to the public. I must assume President Obama is doing just as you suggested…using diplomatic channels to express a strong hand but the public doesn’t know that. By Palin coming out and issuing such a strong response, she gets a free pass to show what she would do, which is probably the same that Obama is doing, but he cannot say…so in the public’s view she wins this round. if they were scoring…which they aren’t yet. I know…I sound like I’m rambling…