From the looks of their Action committee blog, the AFA (otherwise known as the American Family Association- who endorsed Mike Huckabee during the 2007 primaries) have changed their tune in regards to their support of Governor Huckabee:
The primary function of government, according to Romans 13, is the administration of justice, which it carries out by punishing those who deprive fellow citizens of their God-given rights to life, liberty and property. God has even authorized the use of capital punishment (“he does not bear the sword in vain”) so that the state may be “the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.”
If a public servant cannot be trusted with this most basic of all moral responsibilities, how can he be trusted with any other?
We were rightly outraged when President Clinton issued an irresponsible pardon for fraudster financier Marc Rich. But at least nobody died.
The governor has tried to wash his hands of the affair by posting a statement on his website blaming it all on “a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State,” as if he had little or nothing to do with it.
It appears that Governor Huckabee could not be trusted with the power of the pardon as governor. Perhaps he should not be trusted with the power of the pardon as president.
UPDATE: MN Governor Tim Pawlenty has weighed in on the Clemmons/clemency case:
Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty became the first likely GOP presidential candidate to criticize Mike Huckabee’s pardon of a suspected killer during his time as Arkansas’s governor.
Pawlenty said that he would not have granted clemency to Maurice Clemmons, who was suspected of fatally shooting four police officers in Washington state on Sunday before being shot and killed by police in Seattle Tuesday morning.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:42 pm
??? This AFA post has more holes in it than my MassCare.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:43 pm
This whole episode is clearly a game changer – the only thing left now is deciding exactly how much things have changed, and who benefits from those changes.
Iowa, now, is a toss up. Whether Huckabee can win there is the deciding factor whether its him or Palin who will face Romney after the New Hampshire primary.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:45 pm
This is just one guy’s opinion based on information that I have PROVEN if false.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:47 pm
2. And then South Carolina and Florida!
Oh, how I hate South Carolina and Florida.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:49 pm
“??? This AFA post has more holes in it than my MassCare.” First of all, you are not Mr. M. Romney. Whoever you are, you have run amok. Back to the issue at hand, the AFA never endorsed Mr. Huckabee per se in the first place (I believe) so I would not read too much into this. Yes, the AFA gave Mr. Huckabee a good rating so to speak last time and they may or may not do so this time, but it is too soon to jump the gun.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Any kind of religious/evangelical/family/moral organization that criticizes Huckabee is a severe hit.
But unfortunately, We don’t have enough polling data yet for 2012 to try and make projections from the 2008 results.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:58 pm
If this is the start of a trend, then Huckabee will not be able to run. This sort of group is his base. Losing them means that even some of his most ardent supporters are abandoning ship.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:02 pm
7. They’re sure not Obama’s base.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Huckabee’s SORDID pardon/communtation history was and is well documented. Huckabee was essentially at war against the efforts of law enforcement. A simple google search reveals plenty of well documented news articles full of complaints on the part of prosecutors, law enforcement and crime victims over the abuse of power by Huckabee.
If you were well connected, had money, or claimed to believe in God–as long as it was the right God, of course,–you had a get-out-of jail-free card.
But for the Hucksters commuation, Clemmons would be in prison today and those officers would be alive. Pretty simple. Oh sure, other people are also to blame now, but this is pretty simple.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Huckabee is finished and he knows it. What the heck was he thinking commuting a sentence with that background so the guy could walk the streets again so soon while still young and very dangerous.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:40 pm
You know when Tim Pawlenty joins the conversation things aren’t looking good for Huckster.
Mike’s days are numbered!
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/69921-pawlenty-i-would-not-have-granted-clemency-to-clemmons
December 1st, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Any fool should have known that you don’t communte, at least that early–a man who had committed that many violent crimes, including the use of a gun, on mutiple occasions, by the time he was 18 years old.
Think about this, his crimes warranted over 100 YEARS in prison–and you are going to let this guy out when he is in his late 20s!!!!
His crimes were classified as dangerous crimes. This bastard was, AND HAD RECIDIVIST WRITTEN ALL OVER HIM.
Release those who are non-violent with a low danger to re-offend!!
Wayne Dumond, Clemmons, who else??
The FIRST role of government is to see to the safety of its citizens–not to impose your religion on the rest of us. Huckabee:FAIL
December 1st, 2009 at 2:45 pm
You know, it’s very interesting to know that the number of commutation granted by Romney was ZERO!
December 1st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Ann,
Glen Green is one off the top of my head.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
A Cop-Killer’s Impact on 2012
by Nate Silver
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/cop-killers-impact-on-2012.html
December 1st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
13. Is that suppose to be a bad thing?
December 1st, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Well that’s unnerving watching evangelicals turn on their own. Huckabee could dish it out, let’s see if he can take it. He probably trained some of these folks in the art.
Personally I hope this goes nowhere. It’s already turned my stomach, I hope it goes away. I don’t want to see do-gooders with poor judgment in positions of leadership – but what’s done is done.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Hey Doug and MWS, Pawlenty is making hay out of this tragedy too. How do you like him now?
And MWS, Pawlenty said, “We’ve given out pardons for things after everybody has served out their term, but again, usually for more minor offenses. But clemency, certainly not. Commutation of sentence, certainly not.”
Wow, he’s a hard line jerk just like Romney!
That article in #11 makes me love Pawlenty even more. Especially for the courage he showed in taking a stand on this issue. Now if only he could slap some sense into MWS’ spinning head.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:01 pm
The burning question for me right now is what is MWS going to say about Pawlenty dumping on Huckabee? He has been preaching Pawlenty and defending Huckabee in this dustup. Now what?
December 1st, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Asked by conservative radio host Laura Ingraham if he would have granted clemency under the same circumstances, Pawlenty replied, “No. On those facts, no, Laura, I would not.”
And Laura smiled for 17 minutes straight until she went to commercial.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Ignoring the rest of the country for the moment, I’ll simply say that living in Washington State, I doubt Huckabee could muster a 100 votes west of the Cascades after the horror of the past few days. Four dead cops left nine children behind — we won’t be forgetting that by 2016.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I sure would love to hear what Rudy has to say on this too.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Whenever someone says that they would have done things differently, I take it with a grain of salt. Just like Obama saying he was against the war but sitting in the cheap seats when the vote was taken in the Senate.
Pawlenty has now gone after Romney and Huckabee. Interesting tactic considering the primaries are over 2 years away.
I wonder if any of the other potential 2012 GOP candidates will criticize Huck. If not, how will Pawlenty look and conversely, how will the other candidates look?
December 1st, 2009 at 3:17 pm
CalState you make a mistake. Pawlenty not only said that he would have done things differently, he said that he did indeed do things differently. From the link in #11 I quote again, “We’ve given out pardons for things after everybody has served out their term, but again, usually for more minor offenses. But clemency, certainly not. Commutation of sentence, certainly not.”
Pawlenty appears very presidential here.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:21 pm
“Pawlenty appears very presidential here.” Hahahaha, I am sure he is also presidential when he has to use the restroom. He gave his 2 cents for pete sake, that in and of itself is neither presidential nor non-presidential.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Looks like Pawlenty is the Romney of 2008 — always in attack mode. It’s a sign of a political amateur for a candidate to go after Huckabee right now.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:23 pm
WSU,
“Iowa, now, is a toss up.”
2 1/2 years before the voting, EVERYTHING is a tossup.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:25 pm
“2 1/2 years before the voting, EVERYTHING is a tossup.” Haha, as long as Mrs. Palin is in the race, at least Ohioo and Alaska are not Toss ups.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:25 pm
CalState (#23) — that is a very interesting proposition about other potential candidates.
I would wager that neither Ms. Palin nor Mr. Romney take even a baby step into the fracus.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:25 pm
3. What information have you proven false, David?
December 1st, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Dan,
“Hey Doug and MWS, Pawlenty is making hay out of this tragedy too.”
Not really. He said he wouldn’t have granted clemency. Sane people can disagree about that.
It’s not like he said Huck is going to burn in hell, or something…..
December 1st, 2009 at 3:27 pm
marK,
“The burning question for me right now is what is MWS going to say about Pawlenty dumping on Huckabee? He has been preaching Pawlenty and defending Huckabee in this dustup. Now what?”
See #31, and burn no longer!!!
December 1st, 2009 at 3:28 pm
OOsps, I got carried away and added an extra o.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:28 pm
29. That would be smart.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:29 pm
“It’s not like he said Huck is going to burn in hell, or something…..” BINGO!
December 1st, 2009 at 3:29 pm
That is a false statement, you proved nothing of the sort.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:31 pm
If either Palin or Romney or anyone else enters into this fray (which I doubt) it will be through surrogates or more subtle methods. For instance, a Romney supporter might just casually mentioned that he granted no clemencies as Governor of Massachusetts. It is most likely that none of the other would-be candidates would be as direct about it as Pawlenty seemed to.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:31 pm
36. Read David’s posts again when you get time.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Try to prop up Huckabee after Clemens like beating a dead horse. Pun intended.
How many more ticking time bombs has Huckster let free on society. How many innocent lives have to be snuffed out
before the CULT that is Huckabee supporters finally say enough. To support Huckabee at this time is to pro-death of the living, as I have no doubt out of 1033+ pardons, it is likely to happen again, again. Huckabee= Murder and Rape.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I did, it was hog wash. I had already done my own personal research. David is in the tank so bad for Huckabee that he is, as always trying to twist the truth. This is the kind of things I would expect from Democrats.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:35 pm
31 MWS, yet another transparently dishonest post by you. It’s obvious, and not just to me, that Pawlenty is making hay out of this.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Pawlenty made political hay criticizing MassCare. Now he is attacking Huckabee.
I am reminded of something that I heard recently in church. If you listen to a gossip spreading rumors about someone else, tomorrow someone else will be listening to them spreading rumors about you. It just works out that way.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
“I did, it was hog wash.”
–I CALLED the prosecutor myself. Every point that I make is factual. If it isn’t then show me where.
“I had already done my own personal research”
–You called the prosecutor? You got the facts?
The fact is: Prosecutors lodged no objection to Huckabee’s sentence reduction for Clemmons
http://race42008.com/2009/12/01/prosecutors-lodged-no-objection-to-huckabees-sentence-reduction-for-clemmons
December 1st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
“This is the kind of things I would expect from Democrats.”
That is the pure, unadulterated truth.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:39 pm
#42:
Pawlenty is just trying to get his name-id into double digits. He is positioning himself as the “Anybody but Romney, Huckabee, or Palin” candidate. Going after them about some of their weak areas or perceived to be weak areas (MassCare or clemencies and pardons) is good politics, if a little tacky.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Reply to 43: Yea, like we can really check your sources, good one. He is a little of the Truth!
http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_06_23_04/huckabee.html
December 1st, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Obama Approval on Afghanistan, at 35%, Trails Other Issues
Decline from 49% in September far exceeds that for other issues and for approval more broadly
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124520/Obama-Approval-Afghanistan-Trails-Issues.aspx?version=print
December 1st, 2009 at 3:42 pm
OJ you said ‘“Pawlenty appears very presidential here.†Hahahaha, I am sure he is also presidential when he has to use the restroom. He gave his 2 cents for pete sake, that in and of itself is neither presidential nor non-presidential.’
No, he took a stand on a specific issue that matters to many voters. He backed it up with his record. He sounded intelligent and informed while doing so. He showed leadership by saying what he said.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:45 pm
“Pawlenty is just trying to get his name-id into double digits.” Bingo, plus he just answered some questions. It does not yet rise to political hay.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:45 pm
43. So. ? It doesn’t change Huck’s culpability one bit!
The bottom line is that Huck lost any benefit of the doubt he might have been granted in this case because he pardoned 1033 criminals, including rapists and murderers! This was not an isolated incident. He WAS in a war with law enforcement/prosecutors/judges/and juries.
No one knows how many new victims there are from the 1003 criminals Huck let go.
No one knows the pain the family members of these cops, or the family members of the woman DuMond raped and killed have and will suffer.
It was bad judgment and blatant disregard for the safety of every citizen in this country – and for the known victims – many of whom pleaded for Huck to reconsider.
It’s high time the GOP started caring about this issue, and it’s terrible that it had to come with such a tragic event.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:47 pm
While I dislike Huckabee more than any politician I know, I don’t think he acted particularily negligent in this case. Here is his defense if you haven’t already seen it. More than 100 years for the crimes he committed at 16 seems a little excessive to me too.
Huckabee is not the main culprit here. The system wide failures in the justice system are the real problem.
http://video.foxnews.com/12094770/controversial-clemency
December 1st, 2009 at 3:48 pm
OJ,
So when Palin gives her “2 cents for pete sake”, do you consider that neither presidential nor non-presidential?
December 1st, 2009 at 3:52 pm
51. Oh sure, everyone knows pretty much nothing about that case, but somehow, they are all qualified to say whether 108 years is appropriate or not?
I would like to give the benefit of the doubt that the prosecutors and the judge had the best interest of the public in mind when he was sentenced. I highly doubt this was an excessive sentence.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:53 pm
I think T-Paw might be showing himself to a little too eager to attack his opponents. He remains the squeeking mouse under the table of Republican politics, but unless people jump on him for it, it pulls the issue into fair game.
Also – I think the 538 article was a good one, and it makes a good point: Huck’s strengths are his weaknesses. Unlike Romney, who is universally recognized as an authority figure, but suffers from the perception that he is slightly “plastic”, the same things that endear Huckabee to his following – a kind, down-to-earth, compassionate manner – could also hurt him among those who still look to hang ‘em from the highest tree.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:53 pm
“So when Palin gives her “2 cents for pete sake”, do you consider that neither presidential nor non-presidential?” Unless, it is something special, yes. For the record, while I am enjoying Mrs. Palin’s book and it makes me proud to be a Palinite, her book is not Presidential per se. However, it is not non-Presidential either.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:57 pm
“51. Oh sure, everyone knows pretty much nothing about that case, but somehow, they are all qualified to say whether 108 years is appropriate or not?” Well, my local talk show host is not exactly Pro-Huckabee, but even he questions whether a White guy would get 108 years. What is really funny is that so many people are jumping the gun jumping on Mr. Huckabee for this case. No doubt, Mr. Huckabee has done some stupid stuff, but it is barking up the wrong tree to claim that this is one of them. 108???? C’mon.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Hi guys!
Just returned from 2018 and Martha is still complaining about President Huckabee and his Secretary of State Sarah Palin.
She was also pushing hard for 71 year old Mitt Romney to oppose the still beautiful Sarah Palin in 2020.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:02 pm
OJ,
I know you voted for the guy in 08, but I can’t believe you are defending him on this.
Oh wait, I guess I can. Apparently, you, Doug and MWS were able to overlook the 1033 pardons, including for murderers, and including the Wayne DuMond case where Huck flat out lied about his involvement.
So yeah, I ‘m not surprised.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Hi Martha,
Did you vote for Reagan?
December 1st, 2009 at 4:09 pm
57. Sometimes you are funny!!! When I was in 2018, Palin had 18 grand children and some lady named Liz Cheney was secsta! Leave it to President Romney to pick the best and brightest.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Just saw a report on CNN that Massachusetts has one of the highest levels of healthcare satisfaction by residents of any state in the U.S. It said 2/3 of residents of Massachusetts are either satisfied or very satisfied with their healthcare.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Martha, wasent this pardon issue brought up in the primary’s? And it was poo pooed? And dident Huck use his pardons to show Romney how ‘compassionate’ he was as a gov?
I’m truly sorry to see huck go down in this way. But, what goes around comes around.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Shhh Georgia. We would not want that little fact to get out in the GOP, now would we?
December 1st, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Huckabee’s Wikipedia page hijacked
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/69785-huckabees-wikipedia-page-hijacked
December 1st, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Pardons:
1st! Governor Davis (1999-2003)—0,
2nd. Governor Wilson (1991-1999)—13,
3rd. Governor Deukmejian (1983-1991)—328,
5th. Governor Brown (1975-1983)—403,
and
6th. Governor Reagan (1967-1975)—575.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Here is Huckabee’s most recent statement: http://www.redstate.com/gov_mike_huckabee/2009/12/01/washington-state-tragedy/
December 1st, 2009 at 4:17 pm
62. Remember, nobody cared! Now they care. Better late than never.
59. Yes, twice.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Massachusetts: 26% Consider State’s Health Care Reform a Success
… If it’s in the news, it’s in our polls Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/…/massachusetts/massachusetts_26_consider_
December 1st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Or you can go with CNN’s garbage polls.
Choose Rasmussen if you’re Republican.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Dan,
“MWS, yet another transparently dishonest post by you.”
Whatever you say, Dan.
Even my 6 year old knows that people can disagree without one of them being an evil, vile, dishonest, liar.
You could learn a lot from him.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:24 pm
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_state_surveys/massachusetts/massachusetts_26_consider_state_s_health_care_reform_a_success
Romney could always run for Governor of RomneyCare Mass again…
No.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:28 pm
59. Thank you Martha.
Bonus question to anyone:
Of the 1000 pardons Reagan gave over his political life, how many of them were repeat offenders?
December 1st, 2009 at 4:28 pm
LOL on the T-Paw remarks.
Poor guy’s desperate, starving for any kind of attention from the media!
Tim, you’re gonna have to go on MSNBC and moon Olberman!
December 1st, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Poor Mitt, too, by the way. He can’t get any attention these days either.
Maybe he needs to dedicate his book “To everyone killed by Governor Huckabee.”
December 1st, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Fact: Huckabee pardoned 1 criminal every week with little explanation.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:47 pm
MWS you have a long history of obfuscating and prevaricating here at Race. I am merely the latest in a long line of commenters here who have called you out on it.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:47 pm
^on average
December 1st, 2009 at 4:48 pm
74. I don’t think Mitt is really looking for attention right now. And it probably is a smart move 2 1/2 years out.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Confess, MWS. The six-year-old is totally in the tank. We’ll have to call you on such bogus appeals to authority every day from now on.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:50 pm
WiseGuy, nobody cares about your lame comparison to Reagan. He was wrong to pardon all those criminals as well. But it should be pointed out that the population of CA is 14x what Arkansas is. So to keep up with Huck, Reagan would have had to pardon over 14,000 criminals. Your argument is pathetic.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Did he commute 12 people sentenced for murder letting them go out on the streets on parole ?
December 1st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
The issue is what crimes you are commuting – you shouldnt commute sentences with records like his.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Hey! I’m back again. Whew…I’m out of breath.
I just darted over to 2026 and President Sarah Palin is doing just fine. The economy has been on a 12 year positive roll thanks to back-to- back Republican administrations.
Vice President Michelle Bachmann has been great too and is looking forward to her race 4 2028 against the Green Peace and Freedom Party. (The Democrats have long since disbanded)
Oh, and BYU is number one in the BCS.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:57 pm
For me, there is only one issue here – the willingness to replace law and justice with one’s personal perspective.
Every decision has some prospect of going terribly wrong. When you take justice (and mercy) into your own hands 1033 times, you’re going to screw up. 1033 times was 15x to 30x more clemency than was dispensed by other governors on a per capita basis. You can’t do that 30 times as often as others, without thinking that your judgment is far superior to every other elected and appointed official in the state going back decades.
Clemmons is not an isolated incident, nor is Dumond. Nor is this tendency to place yourself above the law and above the people limited to matters of parole and clemency. Wasn’t it the same issue that was the foundation for Huck’s illegal immigration position. You see, ‘it would just be so heartless to send them home. Don’t you see how unfair it is to charge people who aren’t even supposed to be in the country out of state tuition?’ (I don’t have a Phd in geography, but I’m pretty sure that out of the country is out of state in every state.)
THE issue is that Huck doesn’t respect the law, or law making, or the will of the people as voiced by their elected representatives. Sweep all of that aside because Huck knows better, and he feels more deeply, and that’s what counts.
No, my problem is that Huck is just a notch short of having a God complex, thinking that it is within his personal prerogative and power to right all the wrongs. And as God’s messenger, he is compelled to do so.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Micah, two per week, do your math!
December 1st, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Mark,
“The six-year-old is totally in the tank. We’ll have to call you on such bogus appeals to authority every day from now on.”
I see no reason why his need for food, shelter, and clothing would create a conflict of interest.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:00 pm
The biggest problem I have with Mike Huckabee is the reasoning behind the pardons. He stated clearly that people had accepted Jesus and now could be released. What if someone accepted Budda and was released by a governer bacause he believes Budda changed the man?
Huckabee has poor judgement period.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Time Traveler:
Now you’ve become completely unbelievable. Everyone knows BYU isn’t in the BCS. (But I don’t think it is a Mormon thing, cause neither are the Utes.)
December 1st, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Dan,
“WiseGuy, nobody cares about your lame comparison to Reagan. He was wrong to pardon all those criminals as well.”
Do you think he’s burning in hell too?
December 1st, 2009 at 5:03 pm
87. Micah, do you accept Bubba?
December 1st, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Dan,
“MWS you have a long history of obfuscating and prevaricating here at Race. I am merely the latest in a long line of commenters here who have called you out on it.”
And every single one of those commentators have exactly two things in common. I get along with most everyone else just fine, thank you.
BTW, who do you think I’m colluding with?
December 1st, 2009 at 5:05 pm
DanL and Thunder really need to grow up….
December 1st, 2009 at 5:06 pm
“still hurting in AZ Says:
December 1st, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Time Traveler:
Now you’ve become completely unbelievable. Everyone knows BYU isn’t in the BCS. (But I don’t think it is a Mormon thing, cause neither are the Utes.)”
Let me go back and check when the BCS was changed and let the Cougars in…
(Be right back) Zoommmmmmmm
December 1st, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Martha,
“Oh sure, everyone knows pretty much nothing about that case, but somehow, they are all qualified to say whether 108 years is appropriate or not?
I would like to give the benefit of the doubt that the prosecutors and the judge had the best interest of the public in mind when he was sentenced. I highly doubt this was an excessive sentence.”
Isn’t that what you are doing when you say Huck should burn in hell?
Oh, and the prosecutors were silent, according to the official records, the judge supported clemency, and the parole board let him out.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Huckabee can’t judge people.
‘Bubba can.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Yep!
They let everybody in except Arkansas! BCS rules!
December 1st, 2009 at 5:14 pm
My take is that Huckabee goofed in a big way, but that he was also a young governor who was too naive about those he felt he could empathize with because he himself came from a background of poverty.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Tim Pawlenty has waded in, again. The guy is in serious danger of overexposure, being all things to all people. Palin & Romney know not to wade in on EVERY issue. Can he learn it?
December 1st, 2009 at 5:22 pm
By the way, PPP(D) has Palin’s favorables with conservative Democrats at 52%.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Huckabee: It’s disgusting that bloggers are criticizing me instead of grieving for those cops; Update: Huck rips prosecutor
By Allahpundit
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/01/huckabee-its-disgusting-that-bloggers-are-criticizing-me-instead-of-grieving-for-those-cops/
December 1st, 2009 at 5:26 pm
You are thinking of a Willie Nelson song.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Governor Huckabee did take responsibility on O’Reilly for what HE did. He can not take responsibility for what he DID NOT DO. That would be like blaming this killers parents for the murders because they did not raise their son properly. Or–for a suspect to admit to crimes he did not commit just because newspaper headlines said he may be guilty. Any focus on other human beings, other than the murderer himself would have to be be directed to the judges who most recently set him free. They had his entire (and recent ) record in front of them in which they could base their decisions on. Governor Huckabee obviously could not do that years ago in Arkansas because the most heinous by far of all the crimes HAD NOT BEEN COMMITTED YET ! A 4 year old could figure that out. This is a bad situation and I feel for these family members as any caring person would, but blaming Huckabee for this makes zero sense, unless you are in the GOP group who hated Mike a week ago anyway, and feel this can be twisted into nasty sounding headlines to de-rail any possible future Presidential aspirations. There’s a verse in the O.T. that says “Remember Lot’s wife.” I would suggest….” Remember Trent Lott.” Maybe this will ruin Mike’s political future, I’m just saying it shouldn’t. If it does, it is wrong and incredibly stupid beyond belief. I believe this tragic situation would make the Governor an even BETTER President, rather than a more flawed one.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:39 pm
91, Huckabee ?
December 1st, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Everybody will be shocked when Huck gets back into 1st place in the polls in a couple months.
Huck = Teflon.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:41 pm
There’s a verse in the O.T. that says “Remember Lot’s wife.”
Randy, its actually in the NT (Luke 17v32)
December 1st, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Wiseguy. I’m not worried about Huckabee now. I’m worried if he ever gets the nomination. He will get roasted over pardons, NRA remarks, ethics complaints…etc.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:46 pm
MWS:
It’s sad to see that some have regressed to “argumentum ad hominem” but this is not the high road.
Logical arguments would win in an ideal world.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:48 pm
102. Well said, Randy : )
December 1st, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Wiseguy,
It is what it is. Most of the earliest commentators on this breaking story were people would love to personally disembowel Huck anyway, so of course they jumped all over this. As details keep coming out, reducing Huck’s culpability, they’re kind of stuck with their Huck-Must-Burn-In-Hell argument, because their hatred and pride won’t have it any other way. So they’re kind of left with sputtering rage, and the sort of ad hominem you see here.
I also find it telling that none of these guys (at least that I’ve seen) have had word one to say about the Washington judges, the parole board, the silent prosecutors, or the judge who petitioned for clemency. Some of them even attacked O’Reilly for going after the Washington judges (lest Huck’s “blood guilt” be diluted in any way!) That tells me they really aren’t interested in avenging four dead cops. They just want to hang Huck from the highest tree they can find.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:54 pm
109. Now, that’s the truth. Nice sum up.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Turning a Hucka-bump into a Hucka-jump:
I have been on record as not supporting Huck for the nomination though I find him to be folksy and likable (for the most part). If I were doing public relations consulting for him right now I would offer him the following suggestions:
1. Do not accept responsibility for this pardon – that would be a sign of weakness to your opponents and you will be answering to every Hucka-pardon that you did as Governor.
2. Stress your pro law and justice credentials and highlight your support of the NRA.
3. Corral your Hucka-base in the Evangelical community while reaching out to the middle and appealing to new constituencies.
4. Be bold: promise to never use the Presidential Pardon if elected to the Presidency.
5. Put out short, curt and brief statements that lay out all the facts of the case and wait for the issue to blow over.
That being said, I am thinking more and more that this may in fact be a GC (Game Changer) and T-Paw is definitely trying to benefit by attempting to attract part of Huck’s base that seems to be throwing him under the bus to some extent.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:58 pm
And…then there are some that are so in the tank for Huckabee that they can’t or won’t accept the fact that Huck srewed up bad.
nudge…nudge
December 1st, 2009 at 6:01 pm
This isn’t the AFA, this is a blogger for one of the blogs on the AFA, and by the way he doesn’t use facts either. He uses the same stuff from Malkin, and she doesn’t use facts either.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:03 pm
MWS, you have made plenty of ad hominem attacks yourself against nearly every Romney supporter here at Race, so stuff it. Why haven’t any of us gone after any of the other links in this chain? Because none of this would have happened if Huck hadn’t been the first link to break.
All of you Huck apologists, including O’Reilly are contemptible for defending the indefensible.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Dan,
“Why haven’t any of us gone after any of the other links in this chain?”
Because you don’t hate them.
You know, if Clemmons’s grandparents had never had sex, those cops would still be alive.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Dan,
“All of you Huck apologists, including O’Reilly are contemptible for defending the indefensible.”
The truth is, if there wasn’t the epilogue to the story that went down this week, and you asked people if 47 years was a tough sentence for non-violent robberies, I think most people would say yes.
BTW, do you think the prosecutors who dropped the ball on Clemmons’s parole violation will burn in hell?
December 1st, 2009 at 6:11 pm
The real question is how many criminals out there roaming the streets from Huck’s terms as governor that are violent predators? This is not just a one time thing. This has happened over and over with Huckabee. Should his other cases be reviewed?
December 1st, 2009 at 6:12 pm
So you’re suggesting that everyone makes serious mistakes in Huckabee’s wake? Is this also why you can’t stop freaking out?
First link? Ever heard of parental responsibility?
December 1st, 2009 at 6:20 pm
“You know, if Clemmons’s grandparents had never had sex, those cops would still be alive.”
I’m tempted to use that as a signature for every one of my front page posts from now on…
December 1st, 2009 at 6:36 pm
I want to extend a sincere thank you to all of the Huckabee supporters, and there have been a lot, who have stood up the last two days and condemned Huck’s pardons/paroles/clemencies. I think perhaps that it isn’t a majority of Huck supporters who share this view “Huck = Teflon.”
December 1st, 2009 at 6:40 pm
WiseGuy thank you for saying “Huck = Teflon.” You have illustrated the fact that for all the Huck apologists (MWS, Graham, Schmidt, OJ, yourself, lelouch, O’Reilly, etc) there isn’t anything that Huck can do that would tarnish him in your estimation. If Huck embezzled gov’t funds to fly off to see his mistress in Argentina, if he had sex with an intern in the oval office, if he lied under oath, if he quit his governorship halfway through his term, you apologists would still be making excuses for him.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:42 pm
“You know, if Clemmons’s grandparents had never had sex, those cops would still be alive.”
Wow you are a callous jerk aren’t you.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:55 pm
DanL. Stop it. The hate.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:57 pm
109. MWS,
This site is about 2012, remember?
Of course those people who dropped the ball with Clemmons are responsible. But the fact remains that Huck started this unfortunate chain of events. If he had not oommuted the sentence, the man would not have been given parole, and things would have turned out very different.
Also, MWS. You have never said word one about Huck’s 1033 pardons, at least that I can recall. This is the reason Huck cannot be given the benefit of the doubt in this case. He has a terrible history of ignoring victims, prosecutors, etc. to act as if he was the sole dispenser of justice/mercy in Arkansas.
If you can’t see how offensive that is to most people, then I don’t don’t really know what can open your eyes.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:59 pm
MWS, if I hate Huck as you claim that I do, then why did I come to his defense the other week when Lorelli made his false claims about the ARTL and Huck?
If I hate Huck, well my hatred of Huck is a small thing compared to your hate of Romney. If we compared the number of posts that I have made attacking Huck with the number of posts you have made attacking Romney, your sheer numbers would dwarf mine. If we further compared the number of threads that you have hijacked in order to vent your hatred of Romney versus the number that I have hijacked to vent mine of Huck, again your results would dwarf mine.
The other difference that should be pointed out is that I have admitted Romney’s faults and have even argued with Romney supporters over those faults. You can never admit to Huck doing anything wrong.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Dan,
“Wow you are a callous jerk aren’t you.”
Except I’m not the one using four dead cops to carry out a personal vendetta.
Besides, I was simply applying your “first link in the chain” logic.
I think I hit upon an earlier link.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Dan,
“If we compared the number of posts that I have made….”
Quality over quantity, Dan.
Would you like me list the problems I’ve had with Huck on these boards? I’ve done it on at least a few occasions.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Martha,
‘Also, MWS. You have never said word one about Huck’s 1033 pardons, at least that I can recall.”
http://race42008.com/2009/11/29/potential-trouble-for-huckabee/#comment-649347
December 1st, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Martha,
http://race42008.com/2009/11/30/why-huckabee-will-never-be-president/#comment-650391
December 1st, 2009 at 7:07 pm
NWS, this isn’t a personal vendetta. This is a quest to see that Huckabee is never allowed to perpetuate more of these tragedies. It is a shame that you are so unmoved by four murders that you would fight to allow Huck more opportunities to destroy lives.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Huck needs to turn his bass up when performing.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Dan,
I’ve said I would vote for Romney in the General.
Can you say the same about Huck?
December 1st, 2009 at 7:09 pm
So much hate, so few threads.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Dan,
“you would fight to allow Huck more opportunities to destroy lives.”
That’s right, Dan. You’ve hit upon our true motives. We are fighting for the destruction of peoples’ lives.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:15 pm
No, MWS — the point is that none of the rest of them have their pictures on the left column of this page — they aren’t being considered for the presidency.
Of course lots of people screwed up on this (as I’ve noted in other comments), but that doesn’t mean Huckabee is in any way less culpable for his screw-up.
And pointing to the other screw-ups has the appearance, I hope you will agree, of trying to deflect justifiable blame from oneself — which is not an attractive picture.
I do not hate Huckabee. Although I dislike his political views, I find him an engaging personality. I have often defended him from what I felt were unjustified attacks by the Rombots. I have also felt (and have stated here) that I could (possibly) end up supporting him — if I thought that he was the only Republican who could beat Obama.
That will not happen now, because he’s toast. And he did it to himself.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:17 pm
MWS,
I’m afraid Dan is right. You do have a personal vendetta against Romney, and you try to insert Romney into every single topic. Dan is one of the fairest commenters at race.
Me, I’m the one with the vendetta against the Huckster, and proud of it, baby.
126. Very obnoxious comment.
Those 1033 pardons are an outrage, and should forever disqualify Huck from any elected office.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:21 pm
MWS it is predictable that when you are arguing and your opponent makes a valid argument and you don’t have a valid defense you resort to smartass comments. That is all that you are doing in these last several posts. You may score points with Dotan by using this tactic, but any reasonable minded reader will see right through you.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:23 pm
“We are fighting for the destruction of peoples’ lives.”
You make light of it, but that is exactly what you are doing. It is exactly what Huckabee did in his war on Law and Order while he was governor. It may not have been his motive or yours now, but that is the outcome of yours and his irresponsible actions.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:24 pm
I should ammend 138 to say that your irresponsible actions have the potential to destroy lives, not that you have destroyed lives yet like Huck has.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Bob,
I understand this site is about 2012. It’s also about a lot of other things too. One of the topics we’ve been discussing is who is responsible for what in this tragedy. Dan is of the opinion that the only way someone can express true sympathy with the victims is to flail Huck, and Huck alone (to the point of fantasies about Huck’s eternal damnation). I’ve wondered aloud why- if he is truly the font of compassion on this site- he has not expressed outrage at any of the other people who had a hand in this (particularly those who had a larger hand). He offers up some lame “first link in the chain” excuse that ultimately leads back to God Himself.
But getting back to Huck……. If we are to judge Huck’s actions, I think we ought to do so with as much information and context as possible, don’t you think? I mean, to hear Dan tell it, Huck drove the getaway car. If the haters are going to draw a direct line between Huck and four dead cops, I think the rest of us have a right to fill in the “………..” they are leaving out. Indeed, we have a duty to the truth. Huck is PART of that truth. But he is not the only part, and not by a long shot the most culpable.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Dan,
“your opponent makes a valid argument”
Please redirect me to that argument.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:44 pm
141 MWS, you must make Dotan very proud of your mastery of facetiousness.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:49 pm
MWS: But the point is that Huckabee is culpable, and he is the only one that matters in the context of the presidential campaign.
He is also attempting, with the help of his supporters, to deflect criticism by pointing at everyone else in the chain.
He is also being deceitful (and attempting to avoid blame) by minimizing Clemmons’ 1989-90 crimes (as David Schmidt has also tried to do here). Huckabee originally said on O’Reilly that Clemmons had only two convictions — he had eight. Even in his most recent statement at RedState, he avoids saying two convictions, but implies it by saying, “The case before me was of a 16 year old who received a disproportionate sentence of 108 years for burglary and robbery charges.”
December 1st, 2009 at 8:01 pm
December 1st, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Dan,
All I’m asking is that you just pause the name-calling long enough to redirect me to whatever valid argument you think I missed.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:02 pm
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/01/huckabee-its-disgusting-that-bloggers-are-criticizing-me-instead-of-grieving-for-those-cops/
Check out the CCN video at the end. Huckabee is finished. No passing go no collecting $200. There is simply no way no how that this issue wouldn’t destroy him in a primary or general.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Bob,
I think Huck bears some responsibility, and in retrospect, it was obviously the wrong decision. In 1999 or 2000, I don’t think it was necessarily the wrong decision. The judge didn’t think so, and apparently the prosecutors didn’t think so, and obviously the parole board didn’t think so.
I think it was a reasonable, but certainly very debatable decision back then. We could certainly debate the merits of clemency in general, and Huck’s use or overuse of them, but his role in this is at the very least all blown out of proportion.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:10 pm
The AFA didn’t endorse Huckabee, it’s President did. This blog doesn’t represent Don Windmon. It’s a lot of folks at the AFA who write it.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:12 pm
I’ll just point out something obvious: Pawlenty was asked this question by Laura Ingraham. He was asked twice, actually. The first time, he tried to dodge it by explaining his policy in Minnesota, without directly commenting on the efficacy of the pardon. When she pressed him, he finally said “no, I would not have”. This hardly amounts to a conscious decision to “weigh-in” on the issue. And frankly, I don’t much understand what people want of Pawlenty; when he tries to be Minnesota modest- diplomatic- and dodge a question on Olympia Snowe, he’s painted as weak. When he learns his lesson and, after an initial dodge attempt fails, answers forthrightly, he’s too eager to get involved.
That was a GREAT interview with Ingraham. He laid a sweet-spot position on climate change, which both reconciles his record with his new conservative rhetoric- seemingly a position which satisfied Laura. He talked knowledgeably about the Somali problem when other candidates, who shall remain nameless, struggle to understand Israeli settlements. He presented a concise case for innovative conservative health care reform. And yes, he delivered a perfectly adequate answer on the commutation issue, which managed to seem firm but not petty. But, the headline is “Pawlenty’s going after Huckabee” which translates too, at Hotair- that he’s just a follower, since apparently Sarah Palin has the miraculous ability to lead even when she stays silent- and here, that’s he’s too aggressive or some such nonsense.
It’s getting perfectly ridiculous. The right is collapsing. To mirror Obama’s trajectory no doubt.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:12 pm
My view is that Huck won’t be able to distance himself from this issue enough in a GOP primary. The GOP base holds very law and order views that make this most tragic result of Huckabee’s pardons the most profoundly unacceptable.
My personal take on Huckabee as a candidate is ambiguous, although I find him most personable in the role. In the case at hand, I’d be more willing than most here to give him a pass because his actions betray a very hopeful view of people as individuals, rather than a cynical one. Aside from pardoning/releasing too many criminals based on his own wishful thinking (as judged in hindsight), he also signed execution orders without turning them over.
I’m not a fan of the death penalty — what I see as an assumption of god-like power over individuals. Yet death penalty candidates are those one would wish to see eliminated from society, and to have them dispatched in the most unpleasant way conceivable.
Capital punishment isn’t at issue here, but I mention it because of the capacity for cynical politics to enter into executive decision-making. The instance I have in mind was when Clinton was running against GHW Bush. At the time, Clinton rather flamboyantly interrupted his campaign to return to Little Rock and sign a death warrant. Not that the criminal should have been pardoned or the death penalty overturned, but a less cynical person might have put off the decision until the presidential campaign ended.
The current case is probably Huckabee’s “Macaca” incident, which I’d suppose ends his White House chances. But for my tastes, it’s going too far to blame him for his honest error in judgment built on naivety, inexperience, and wishful thinking. Especially since his error played only a minor part in the whole.
Every catastrophe like this has an untold number of players behind it, all of whom can be rightfully second-guessed. Still: Ultimate responsibility lies most indisputably with the perpetrator of the act himself.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Very thoughtful words MarkG, they mesh well with Joe Carter’s article from yesterday. Mike is culpable but I believe he’s done a good job owning up to his share of this horrible tragedy.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:21 pm
“NWS, this isn’t a personal vendetta. This is a quest to see that Huckabee is never allowed to perpetuate more of these tragedies. It is a shame that you are so unmoved by four murders that you would fight to allow Huck more opportunities to destroy lives.” We are moved by these 4 murders; we were also moved by 9/11, but we did not blame Mr. Bush.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:23 pm
146. That video sums it up.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:26 pm
For the record, even though the whole pardon business was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me, back in 2007, and even though I do think Huckabee bears some responsibility for this, I’d be genuinely sad if his political career is over. I don’t like to have options- options that could have competed with Obama- eliminated. I think this probably increases T-Paw’s chances, but it’s still not a happy scenario that, come 2012, we’re MORE likely to be stuck with either Palin or Romney. Before I thought Huck had around a 25% chance of walking away with the nomination, and about 35% if he ran. Now the entire remainer of the non-Romney/Palin field has a 25% chance. Sigh.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Bush and Mike Huckabee are a poor comparison.
Huckabee acted. Fault
Bush did not. No fault
December 1st, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Mr. Huckabee did not shoot the 4 policeman nor did he even officially let the killer out of jail, he just reduced the ridiculous sentence of 108 years. Let’s cut the silly season.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:36 pm
I made a facetious snark as an observation: that Pawlenty can’t get much attention at the moment.
The MSM along with the right-wing opinion leaders determine who ultimately gets publicity and, with it, can build a base and raise funds. I find Pawlenty appealing, but at the moment, I don’t know what he can do to build support.
It seems to me that Palin and (until recently) Huckabee get all the easy attention. This will probably change, but not necessarily to Pawlenty’s advantage.
The MSM only pay attention to a GOP hopeful if left-leaning reporters see the hopeful as a GOP critic of the party’s base or as someone that the NE corridor’s token right-wing pundits disparage. Palin and Huckabee so far get that type of attention effortlessly.
Pawlenty needs a path to MSM notoriety, I think. (And so does Romney, but Romney is already an established figure, so the path to publicity is easier for him.)
December 1st, 2009 at 8:41 pm
OJ, had huckabee not been clemency King this would have been avoided. It this man had lived in Pawlenty’s state or any other state for that matter this guy would have not been on the streets.
I know its hard to deal with.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:45 pm
OJ,
What do you think of my new thread on this subject? I would love to hear your feedback.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:47 pm
“It this man had lived in Pawlenty’s state or any other state for that matter this guy would have not been on the streets.” OK, let’s round up all 16 year old burglars and put them in jail for 108 years. Oosp unless they are rich White kids of course.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Hooray! OJ just played the race card!
December 1st, 2009 at 8:54 pm
I would attempt to regain some level of respect for Governor Huckabee if he would only clearly explain his full resonsibility and culpability regarding the freeing of the animal, clemmons. In other words, Mr. Governor, step up like a man and divulge what really happened. Did different characters involved in this whole preventable, deadly drama profit from bribes, donations or other such corrupt motivations in the freeing of this crazed animal?
December 1st, 2009 at 9:06 pm
“Hooray! OJ just played the race card!” Yes I am illustrating how stupid you people are acting because you people want to have a young African American in jail for 108 years. You know bloody well that this sentence is bizarre, yet you persist in your silliness.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Dan,
Are you callously suggesting that there is no disparity in sentencing attributable to race?
December 1st, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Dan,
Oh, and I’m still waiting for you to refer me to the valid arguments I missed…..
December 1st, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Mike Huckabee: I Take Full Responsibility
December 1st, 2009
From Mike Huckabee:
Mike Huckabee: I Take Full Responsibility
The nation was stunned by the senseless and savage cold-blooded murders of 4 young police officers in Lakewood, Washington. Whenever a police officer or soldier is killed, I feel the loss is even more profound for they are the ones who stand between our freedom and anarchy.
At the time I write these words, police are still searching for Maurice Clemmons who is believed to be the one committing these unspeakable acts. Nine years ago, that name crossed my desk. I commuted his sentence from 108 years to 47 years. Many news reports, talk show hosts, and bloggers have erroneously said that he was granted a “pardon.” Others speak of me “setting him free.” As one who now hosts a talk show and who does daily radio commentaries, I can attest to how easy commentary is compared to actually governing. I am not seeking to justify or defend my actions of nine years ago, but it’s important that I answer for my actions and give some explanation as to how and why his sentence was commuted.
I take full responsibility for my actions of nine years ago. I acted on the facts presented to me in 2000. If I could have possibly known what Clemmons would do nine years later, I obviously would have made a different decision. But if the same file was presented to me today, I would have likely made the same decision.
Each state is different, but in Arkansas, a governor doesn’t initiate a parole—the Post Prison Transfer Board does after it conducts a thorough review of an inmate’s file and request. The board then makes a recommendation to the governor, who decides to grant or deny.
If the decision is made to grant any form of clemency (the broad term for a commutation or a full pardon), the governor gives notice of intent and the file is sent to the prosecutor, judge, law enforcement officials, the Attorney General, and the Secretary of State as well as to the news media. A period of 30 days is then started for there to be public input as well as response from the above named officials. At the end of the public response period, the final decision is rendered.
Between 1,000 and 1,200 requests for some form of clemency came to my desk each and every one of the 10 ½ years I was governor. Ninety-two percent of the time, I denied the requests. When I did grant them, it was usually based on the recommendation of at least five of the members of the PPTB, with consideration given to the input from public officials.
Maurice Clemmons was 16 years old when he was charged with burglary and robbery. He was sentenced to a total of 108 years based on the way in which the sentences were stacked. For the crimes he committed and the age at which he committed the crimes, it was dramatically outside the norm for sentencing. The PPTB recommended in 2000 by a 5-0 vote for his sentence to be commuted.
He had served 11 years of his sentence. A pardon would have set him free and cleared his record. A commutation to “time served” would have set him free and released him from any parole reporting. As per the recommendation, I commuted his sentence to the term of 47 years, still a long sentence for the type of crime he had committed, but it would make him parole eligible. It would not parole him, as governors do not have that power in Arkansas. He would have to separately apply for parole and meet the criteria for that.
Despite news reports to the contrary, the only record of public response to the notice to commute was from the trial judge, who recommended the commendation in concert with the board. There were letters of support, but no record of letters of opposition.
Following the commutation, he met the criteria for parole and was paroled to supervision in late 2000. When he violated terms of his parole by participating in additional crimes, he was returned to prison and should have stayed there. For reasons only the prosecutor can explain, charges were not brought forth in a timely way and the prosecutor ended up dropping the charges, allowing him to leave prison and return to supervised parole.
He moved to Washington state and had intermittent criminal activity that increased in violence and frequency. He was allowed to post bail in Washington state and while on bail from there committed the unspeakable acts of murdering four valiant police officers. I can’t explain why he wasn’t prosecuted properly for the parole violations or why he was allowed to make bail in Washington state and not incarcerated earlier for crimes committed there.
I wish his file had never crossed my desk, but it did. The decision I made is one that I now wish were different, but I could only look backwards at his case, not forward. None of this is of any comfort to the families of these police officers nor should it be. Their loss is senseless. No words or deeds by anyone will bring them back to their loved ones. Our system is not perfect and neither are those responsible for administering it.
The system and those of us who are supposed to make sure it works sometimes fail. In this case, we clearly did.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:14 pm
MWS if in law school I had asked that ridiculous question that you did in 141 I would have been yelled out of class by any of my professors. I have been very frank in all of my posts today, yet you continue to practice facetiousness, feigned ignorance, duplicity, and obtuseness.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:18 pm
OJ and MWS let me say the party of personal responsibility might not be a good fit for you.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:21 pm
“OJ and MWS let me say the party of personal responsibility might not be a good fit for you.” Ah no, it is not a good fit for you. Don’t expect us to take Responsibility for your childishness.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Dan,
#166. In other words, you can’t find one.
Thanks.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:24 pm
“OJ and MWS let me say the party of personal responsibility might not be a good fit for you.”
Dan, let me say that you suck at sarcasm.
Recognizing that the justice system is not always color blind is hardly a denouncement of personal responsibility.
Are you seriously in law school??????
December 1st, 2009 at 9:31 pm
168. Hahahaha… nice responce OJ!
December 1st, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Washington State Tragedy
by Mike Huckabee
Posted 12/01/2009 ET
The senseless and savage slaying of 4 police officers in Lakewood, Washington has raised many questions as to why the alleged murderer was even on the streets. My name has figured prominently in many of the stories because I commuted his 108 year sentence to a term of 47 years back in 2000. I take full responsibility for my decision then. Unfortunately, many of my fellow conservatives don’t seem to want to take responsibility for the facts surrounding the case.
The Maurice Clemmons presented in a commutation request in the year 2000 was much different than the one who is being sought for the killings of the police officers.
The case before me was of a 16 year old who received a disproportionate sentence of 108 years for burglary and robbery charges. He had already served 11 years in Arkansas prison by that time, which is more time actually served than most similar cases would have netted in sentencing alone. Under Arkansas law, governors don’t parole anyone. The Post Prison Transfer Board does. That board can recommend clemency, and in this case recommended by a 5-0 vote that his sentence be reduced. This was one of 1000-1200 cases I reviewed each of the 10 and a half years as governor. Ninety-two percent of the time, any request for clemency was denied. Most of the ones granted were for clearing a person’s record for a minor offense from 20 years previous. The trial judge in the case supported the commutation. During the legally required 30 day public comment period before action on the case was complete, there were no objections registered by my office by any authorities, despite claims of the local prosecutor that he “was afraid something like this would happen.” Interestingly, if he was so afraid, then he has failed to explain why in 2004 when Clemmons was back in prison for a parole violation, his office failed to pursue charges and in fact dropped them, allowing Clemmons to go free, move to Washington, and for reasons beyond me, continue to avoid extradition back to Arkansas or be kept by Washington authorities as he displayed signs of psychotic behavior. I am responsible for the commutation in 2000. I would not have commuted his sentence in 2004 after the re-arrest or in any of the years following. I can explain my decision in 2000. I cannot explain the decision of the very vocal prosecutor in Little Rock who seems to avoid answering the questions as to why he didn’t keep Clemmons in prison in 2004 or get him brought back to Arkansas for his repeated parole violations.
There are some glaring facts that some conservative talkers seem to miss:
1. He was never pardoned. Amazingly, that word has been used to describe my actions 9 years ago. He was never even considered for a pardon.
2. The commutation didn’t release him. It made him parole eligible. He had to meet the conditions of parole for the parole board, who in fact paroled him. He had been in prison for 11 years at the time of his release.
3. Despite news reports, there are no records that the prosecutor, law enforcement, the Attorney General, or victims objected to the commutation. The only responses my office had record of during the public comment period were support letters from the trial judge, and members of the community.
4. He was back in prison by 2004 and would have remained there until 2015 due to his parole violations had the prosecutor chosen to properly file the paperwork.
5. The Clemmons of 2000 did not exhibit traits of psychosis and the kind of behavior that he would later express during several arrests in Washington state during the past year.
6. Religion had nothing to do with the commutation. It’s been erroneously expressed that my own personal faith or the claims of faith of the inmate factored into my decision. That is simply not true and nothing in the record even suggests it. The reasons were straightforward — a unanimous recommendation from the board, support from a trial judge and no objections from officials in a case that involved a 16 year old sentenced to a term that was exponentially longer than similar cases and certainly longer than had he been white, upper middle class, and represented by effective counsel who would have clearly objected to the sentencing. (His race, economic status, or education level are not excuses for his behavior because many people of color who are uneducated and living in abject poverty are civil, trustworthy, and honest to a fault and many well-educated, wealthy, white people are dirtbags — think Bernie Madoff). But sadly, Arkansas has had numerous instances of disproportionate sentencing in which a probation and fine would be meted out to white upper class kids whose parents were able to obtain the services of excellent defense attorneys, while young black males committing the same crimes and represented by public defenders would end up with inexplicably long prison terms. Blacks comprise 15% of the state’s population, but 50% of the inmate population, some of which is due to the fact that their sentences are often longer and they are less likely to be paroled.
The two professions I value most in our society are soldiers and police officers, with fireman and schoolteachers right behind. Soldiers and police officers are the line between us and anarchy. The death of the four officers in Lakewood should never have happened. I regret that I ever saw the name of Maurice Clemmons and that I commuted his sentence and made him eligible for parole. That is my responsibility and it was based on the evidence before me in 2000. If presented the same facts today, I would have acted in the same manner. But once he violated that parole and his second chance in 2004, he should not have received the treatment he appeared to have received from the Arkansas prosecutor or the officials in Washington, who failed to send him back to prison and who let him go free on bail even after repeated violent outbursts and a rape charge from this past year. I can take responsibility for my actions, but not for the actions of others nor the misinformed words of commentators.
Mr. Huckabee, a Republican, is the former governor of Arkansas and a 2008 presidential primary candidate.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34636
December 1st, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Sean Hannity
Quote:
There was a whole chain of mishaps but, in his opinion, the person least responsible is the one everyone is trying to blame — i.e., Mike Huckabee.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:55 pm
It’s very unsettling to sit here and listen to folks accuse the prosecutors of racism. We don’t know why the sentences were so lengthy. OJ, were you there? How do you know the sentence of 108 years was silly? How does anyone know that a white kid who did the very same things would have been treated differently?
We don’t know.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:05 pm
#175 Well, clearly the original sentence was NOT excessive since the guy went on to kill 4 police officers! The prosecuters felt he was a danger to society and didn’t want to give him the opportunity to strike again. I think they know how to spot a violent criminal, it’s their dang job! Armed robbery at 16? I mean it’s not rocket science to figure that he would be capable of a whole lot more. The justice system was 100% about Clemmons and Huckbaee was dead wreong. And yet Huckabee refuses to admit that! And has the audacity to be “disgusted” by his critics!
December 1st, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Martha,
Nobody accused any particular prosecutor of racism. We were simply noting that sometimes, in general, blacks get longer sentences and less parole than whites for the same crime.
That’s a fact.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Taylor,
“Well, clearly the original sentence was NOT excessive since the guy went on to kill 4 police officers!”
You do realize that under our justice system, you have to commit the crime before you are sentenced for it?
December 1st, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Taylor,
There is also the little matter of Clemmons going insane between the time of his parole and his crimes in Washington. Maybe the prosecutors foresaw that too?
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:19 am
Yo’ bro’, don’t let your little straw man choke on that wriggly red herring. Let me help you out of your tightly drawn rhetorical corset. It must be cutting off your circulation. Anyway, dude, the point you so desperately want to bury in the backyard along with the cats and rats and other dead pets is that Huckabee failed to perceive what a truly great man of intellect and insight would have perceived. A true statesman of square jaw, broad-shoulders, manly gait, boofy hair, and world-historic proportion would have peered through the very cracks in time itself to draw precisely the right conclusions from the hidden intents of any man’s heart, and that true statesman is Willard Romney, a name that you fear and yet respect because you know that despite yourself this man can save not only you, but your country. So admit your folly and join us as we ponder the greatness and wonder of the former governor from Bain Capital, and rest you at peace.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:40 am
Ervil,
LOL!
I know your posts from a mile away………..
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:50 am
Yeah. I’m pretty much the worst troll ever. But I try. And that’s what counts, right?
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 am
“If this is the start of a trend, then Huckabee will not be able to run.”
Baloney. Huckabee won his votes over the heads of leaders of many, many groups. He didn’t even get the endorsement of Dobson until it was too late to help. Unlike any politician since Reagan (and I am NOT saying he is the next Reagan!), Huckabee is able to go over the heads of leaders and make his case directly to the people. Talk show hosts hated Huckabee because he wouldn’t kowtow to them.
He may have misstepped and he may be down, but don’t count him out, yet.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 am
Ann says “the use of a gun, on mutiple occasions”
Do you have any source for that “fact”? I believe he did not use a weapon in the commission of any crime, and only had one gun charge: illegal possession. If you can show me different, I’d be glad to see it. Thanks.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:19 am
“He stated clearly that people had accepted Jesus and now could be released.”
Could you clearly give me at least two examples of that with original sources please?
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:38 am
Taylor says:
“Armed robbery at 16″
What is your source for that “fact”?
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 am
286. Some reports say he was charged with aggravated burglary. Is this true or not? If it is, he should not have been given parole, especially in light of his prison behavior.
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:33 am
186. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6938866.ece
“Mr Huckabee said that his decision to commute Clemmons’s 108-year sentence for aggravated burglary after 11 years was based on recommendations from the parole board and trial judge. “In this case, the judge in the case was also recommending and the parole board, on a 5-0 vote, because at the age of 16 the sentence he got for the crimes he committed back in 1989 was excessive,” he said.
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:50 am
“especially in light of his prison behavior.” The thing is, all 5 members on the parole board did not have a problem with his behavior. If he was such a bad actor, would not at least one of the 5 judge notice this?
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:53 am
Martha,
I’m no legal expert, but I don’t think “aggravated burglary” necessarily means “armed” or even “violent.” I think it simply means there was something about it that made it worse. In this case, I don’t know what made it “aggravated.”
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:59 am
Haha MWS, years ago, somebody smashed my car window in the middle of the night and stole what was less than a dollar. Can I have this punk put in jail for 108 years?
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:15 am
OJ,
The Rombots certainly wouldn’t object…….
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 am
“The Rombots certainly wouldn’t object…….” Haha, we better hope for their sake that the guy was not from MA.
December 2nd, 2009 at 11:38 am
I doesn’t deserve clemency.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
190. Aggravated burglary usually means with a deadly weapon, or that the person threatens physical injury.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
192. As a sane person, and as a Rombot, I certainly would object.
Trivializing this man’s crime is not adding to the credibility of either one of you.
Both of you are losing it over Romney lately. He cannot possibly be as horrible as you imagine.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
OJ and MWS,
Can you begin to see how silly look? You have now reduced yourselves to defending a dangerous criminal who went on to kill 4 cops, in order to defend your ’08 choice.
Do you even realize what an Alice-in-Wonderland kind of situation you’re in as Huck apologists?
My heavens, you can’t hate Romney that much, can you?
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Yes. Amen, Martha. Give those who would profane the person and character of Romney what for. Rise. Testify. Romney, as you say, cannot possibly be as horrible as they imagine, because even if all the facts in the world support their evaluation, even if Romney himself, his acts, his words, and his deeds demand such an assessment, their tiny and unclean minds could not begin to plumb the depths of the mystery, the splendor and the wonder that is Romney. They fail to see him as we do because they have not yet invited Romney into their hearts and souls. But they will, my sister. They will. (Cue musical bridge.)
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Oh, but they can my dear sister who toils in the fields of the unwashed heathen Romney unbelievers. These polluters and defilers of the name of Romney cherish a baseless hatred in their hearts as powerful and profound as Romney himself were it possible. The best we can do here is to witness to the goodness of Romney and trust that his message will reach the few with open minds and open hearts. The problem is that Romney’s message keeps, you know, changing–reversing, transmuting. I sort of wish he’d make up his gigantic and superior mind. But that’s not for you or I to decide. Our purpose is to laud and magnify the name of Romney.
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
“Can you begin to see how silly look? You have now reduced yourselves to defending a dangerous criminal who went on to kill 4 cops, in order to defend your ‘08 choice.” NO, frankly you look silly for suggesting that we should have known that this chap would kill 4 cops 9 years later. Can you honestly say with a straight face that you knew 9 years ago that this could happens. How many punks do you want to put in jail just so nobody will get killed 9 years from now? I frankly cannot believe it.
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:16 pm
“My heavens, you can’t hate Romney that much, can you?” BTW, what does Mr. Romney have to do with it? Dare I open up another can of worm?
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Do you think that Martha and I are idiots? Do you take us for fools!? Do you now deny that your foul hatred for the person and character of Willard Romney conditions your every swallow and eye-blink—your every movement, your every gesture, your ever word? Do you really expect me to believe that your every key-stroke is not an attack the beauty and majesty of Willard Romney born of your disfiguring envy and base love for all things vile and disgusting? Romney is as pure and blameless as you are small and petulant. Romney is as towering a figure in our time as you are undeveloped and insignificant. And I defy you to prove otherwise, Romney-hater!
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Edited version:
Do you think that Martha and I are idiots? Do you take us for fools!? Do you now deny that your foul hatred for the person and character of Willard Romney conditions your every swallow and eye-blink—your every movement, your every gesture, your ever[y] word? Do you really expect me to believe that your every key-stroke is not an attack [on] the beauty and [the] majesty of Willard Romney born of your disfiguring envy and base love for all things vile and disgusting? Romney is as pure and blameless as you are small and petulant. Romney is as towering a figure in our time as you are undeveloped and insignificant. And I defy you to prove otherwise, Romney-hater!
Please forgive me. It’s just that when I ponder the glory and the wonder of Romney, my editing skills go all to he[ck].
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
OJ,
200. I have suggested no such thing. I have suggested that the facts Huck knew about Clemmons were sufficient to keep him where he was, and that Huck played too fast and loose with pardons.
I prosecutors and judges to administer fair justice in order to protect the public.
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Dear sister, why do you tarry here among the twigs and thorns in this thicket of Romney-despisers? Why soil your hands with their untruths. They refuse to understand that we need leaders would never review the decisions of the judiciary as that would suggest a dangerous enumeration of powers. Oh, I know the constitution specifies such a thing, but it had developed into a straight jacket of primitive superstitions over its many long years of use and abuse. Why, were Romney in power he would strike it down and appoint warrior judges like those biblical judges—the judges in the book of judges—who slew godless Philistines and rebel Israelites with the same bloody sword.
Dear sister, this sentence makes no sense. Truly have you learned from our master, Mitt Romney, for whom sense-making is a burden he refuses to carry! Let lesser minds make sense. We are free from such nonsense as … sense … or something. Um, I need to think this through.
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 pm
“I have suggested that the facts Huck knew about Clemmons were sufficient to keep him where he was, and that Huck played too fast and loose with pardons.” There is little doubt that Mr. Huckabee probably should never have pardoned some of these characters, but in this case it appears that Mr. Huckabee (and the parole board) was not told of Mr. Clemmons violent behavior if it did surface already.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pm
206. OJ,
These people are charged with getting all the necessary information before making such serious decisions. We’ve been told that Huck read every file thoroughly before taking actions.
It just doesn’t wash that Huck didn’t know.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Oh, dear sister how your rage in the cause of truth consumes you. Conjure an image of a joyful and beneficent Willard Romney attired in his clerical vestments to cool your white hot zeal and smooth your furrowed brow. Let his name grace your lips like a mantra as you breathe deeply, and relax. I mean, really, dear sister, you should take a nap. Didn’t your herbalist warn you not to get all excited like this?
Tis’ true of course because Belial and his horrid hosts invested Huckabee the Hell-binder with the power to peer in into the hidden intents of mens’ hearts. Huckabee knows all; Huckabee sees all. “It follows” that he is responsible for all, and by the power of my syllogism I condemn Hucka-busted to that circle of hell reserved for misguided public servants who fail to exercise the cruel severity appropriate to their high positions.