To blame Huckabee for the Washington shooting is politics, pure and simple. There’s a reason why Huckabee blamed the justice system rather than saying its all his fault as reported by the Seattle Times:
After his release, Clemmons remained on parole. Soon after, he found trouble again. In March 2001, he was accused of violating his parole by committing aggravated robbery and theft, according to the Democrat-Gazette.
He was returned to prison on a parole violation. But in what appears to have been a mistake, he wasn’t served with the arrest warrants until leaving prison three years later.
Clemmons’ attorney argued that the charges should be dismissed because too much time had passed. Prosecutors thereafter dropped the charges.
On top of that, he was released by a judge in Washington before the shooting. Now one could reasonably say the Washington state prosecutors and the judge made a huge error in releasing the guy.
But before you blame Huckabee, you have to look at the incompetent prosecutors in Arkansas who after the release failed basic procedural requirements and ended up letting the guy go.
Look, the usual suspects are out (Huckabashers all), just like a season from Casablanca, but the blame Huckabee effort is unseemly, and it verges on morbid politics.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Regardless if Huckabee was at ‘fault’ it is the PERCEPTION that matters more, as you know the perception in politics become a future reality, especially once the media and right-wing radio gets hold of it.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Yes, but this perception is really most commonly held among huckahaters, not the general public. When you list what hurt Huckabee in 2008, I don’t think Wayne Dumond would be on the list.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:11 am
#2:
Perceptions are not etched in stone.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:14 am
2. That’s the problem, Adam. The 1000+pardons are by far the most egregious of all Huck’s actions as Governor, yet nobody cares. Now 4 cops are dead.
It doesn’t matter how many mistakes were made after his release. Huck released him, and if he had not done so, this man would hopefully still be in jail.
I’ve yet to see a rational defense for Huck blatant disregard for the justice system.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Adam
I see Huck, himself, had no difficulty whatsoever pointing the finger at past prosecutors and parole boards. He, himself, had nothing to do with it.
THAT is what troubles me. It is not the 2000(?) Huckabee I’m disappointed in. It is the 2009 buck passer who bothers me.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:16 am
I don’t blame Huckabee the man for these killings, but it is another example of Huckabee the governor showing poor judgment when it came to helping prisoners get released ahead of schedule.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:17 am
I’m sorry, Adam. You cannot reduce this whole episode to “the Huckabashers are out”.
Your credibility is found lacking, again.
My Gosh, man up.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Michael “Dukakis” Huckabee .. sorry, no longer a chance in 2012.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Huck has blood on his hands over Clemmnons and Dumond. He will have to stand before the judgment bar of God and be condemned for his complicity in their crimes. He will be damned for failing in his stewardship as a Governor who released violent criminals with no concern for recidivism. Some will try to ameliorate his crimes because he is a man of the cloth. But that fact will doubly damn him. He was a shepherd who should have been protecting the flock. Rather than protecting the flock he endangered it by taking ravenous wolves who were imprisoned and turning them loose on the flock. Frankly, he is worse than the Catholic Bishops who protect pedophile priests.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:22 am
9. Dan, I’m glad you posted this, you are right.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Also, it is laughable that Graham tries to deflect Huck’s guilt with a argument that his accusers are only interested in politics. Huck is unfit to hold any elected office. It hurts Romney and Pawlenty most to have Huck out of the race. It benefits Palin most. The loudest critics of Huck will almost all be Romney supporters. But they won’t hold back on attacking Huck, and thereby hurting Romney, because it is unconscionable that Huck should ever be president after this.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Adam,
How is it unseemly to suggest that anyone involved with Clemmons release is partially responsible? How does that verge on morbid politics?
Huck’s release of violent criminals was unseemly. Now it is coming back to hurt a lot of people.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:26 am
11. True again.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:26 am
You leave out one critical matter. First, the original prosecutors had secured a 90 jail term, so they must have done something right.
So, if Huckabee had not drastically shortened Clemmons prison term, the prosecutors would not have had the opportunity to fail in the in the warrant, and the judge in Washington would not had the opportunity to fail.
So, in the end, it was Huckabee was put this tragedy into motion that lead to failures of others. Without Huckabee’s actions, the other things, including the murder of 4 people would never had happened.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:28 am
This isn’t the “huckabasher’s” coming out. This is the Huck supporters proving once again that their desire for an evangelical preacher to be the leader of the GOP is more important to them than any evidence of how he may govern.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Dan,
#9.
See you reposted this, I’ll re-ask.
Do you know what blasphemy is?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:31 am
“Huck has blood on his hands over Clemmnons” This is frankly one of the most bizarre things i have heard yet. By that logic, Mr. Romney is a very bad person for what he did with regards to MAcare, it was not simply bad judgment.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:32 am
“Clemmons is a convicted criminal with a long rap sheet who had a 95-year prison sentence commuted in 2000 by then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, said Pierce County sheriff’s spokesman Ed Troyer.”
We can’t blame Huckabee?? Pretty simple–Ih Huck hadn’t commuted his sentence these police ooficers would be alive today.
I warned you folks a long time ago that Huckabee’s sordid history of pay-offs, pardons and commutations would turn around to bite him in the ass.
Blaming the criminal justice system is such hypocracy. Prosecutors, judges, crime victims, etc.–of both parties–HATED HUCKABEE for his DESPICABLE actions in freeing murderers, rapists and the worst criminals you can imagine–as long as someone would contribute to hbius campaign or had a friend in the governors office.
WAYNE DUMOND meet CLEMMONS. How many other citizens have become victims of murder, rape and asault due directly to Huckabee’s abuse of the public trust???
November 30th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Unfortunately, regardless of his qualifications, this event is end of Huckbabee as serious candidate in 2012.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:34 am
18. I would like to see some info on where/what, etc. has happened to all the people Huck released. How many victims are out there.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Martha,
Since you had your pompons out for #9, do YOU know what blasphemy is?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:39 am
A simple google search will reveal plenty of newspaper articles written during his tenure crticizing Huckabee’s abuse of his ability to pardon and commute sentences. Law enforcement, prosecutors simply couldn’t believe what Huckabee was doing to the people of arkansas.
To some who had the time, it would be a terrifi project to do a criminal history search of all of those set free by the Huckster.
No wonder that Fox gig is looking better for Huckabee.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Do you, because it does not meet the bible definition. Try again!
November 30th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Tragic story. I think this is very troubling aspect if your talking about why this guy was out of prison, from the seattle times:
In Pierce County, Clemmons had been in jail for the past several months on a child-rape charge that carries a possible life sentence. He was released from custody one week ago, even though he was staring at eight felony charges in all.
as for how this effect’s huckabee’s chances in 2012, no ? it could be devastating. Yet, i would not be shocked if there is no 2012 huckabee run and he sticks with his fox show.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Huckabee is not solely responsible for the deaths of the four officers. But he does share a part of the blame, and his failure to own up to it is disturbing. He may have granted clemency for noble reasons, but actions have their consequences.
Huckabee could have stood up and said, “I only wanted to give a kid (as Clemmons was 17 at the time) a chance to turn his life around. I seriously believed that he could do it. I was wrong, and I regret it. I’m sorry for all the harm this man did to others, and my prayers are with the families of his victims.” This would have demonstrated great Character on Huckabee’s part.
But he didn’t do it. Instead, he pointed his finger at prosecutors and judges. Such buck-passing is not the stuff of which presidents are made, unless of course they are Democrats.
- JP
November 30th, 2009 at 10:43 am
FOX is certainly going to have to deal with this. I suppose they will pressure Huck to take some form of responsibility. The statement issued earlier by HuckPAC is insufficient, to say the least.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:44 am
More than one person dropped the ball. We know this. It isn’t news.
But it cannot be ignored that Mike Huckabee – true to form, and as part of a trend – released him from prison. Over the objections of prosecutors. Now four cops are dead.
People will, generlly, forgive one indiscretion – thats why Politicos who sleep with women they aren’t married to stay in office, its why someone can recover from a scandal or crime in the past.
But when a pattern develops, then people stop forgiving and start blaming.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Fox is dealing with it. And by the looks of it, Huckabee is getting thrown under the bus.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577845,00.html
November 30th, 2009 at 10:45 am
25. Josh,
Huck has never shown he’s capable of that kind of accountability, or apology.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Wow. Huckabee is blaming law enforcement for not getting Clemmons back in prison fast enough where he belonged–when Huckabee is the reason Clemmons is out again in the first place??
Is this a joke?
Turns out his doubters were wrong. Huckabee does have balls.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Thunder,
Yes. One type of blasphemy is claiming the power or attributes of God; for instance, presuming to judge another’s soul.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Wrong!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blasphemy
November 30th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Huckabee’s support will drop but I don’t know how much. Palin and Pawlenty will get a boost from this.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Thunder,
Here is what I wrote:
“One type of blasphemy is claiming the power or attributes of God”
And here is what you pasted which is supposed to refute what I wrote:
“the act of claiming the attributes of deity”
Allllllrighty then………..
November 30th, 2009 at 11:04 am
The fact that others may have also made mistakes after his release is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. The simple fact is that this man would still be in prision if it had not bee for Mike Huckabee. 4 people are dead because MIKE HUCKABEE took the action he took. If he knew ANYTHING about the rates of recidivisim, he would have known this type of thing was nearly inevitable.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:06 am
ConRep,
I guess by that logic, no prisoner should ever be released for anything.
One strike and you’re out……
November 30th, 2009 at 11:07 am
MWS,
Why are you doing this? Fixating on the word blasphemy? Yes, God alone will judge the souls of men. But we have also been plenty of information about how God will judge us.
We are required to make righteous judgments about our fellowmen every day. That what the American justice system is about, and it’s clear Huck thumbed his nose at it.
Huck is of sound mind as far as we know. He made some egregious errors as governor. Now those decisions have taken the lives of at least 5 people. It’s fair to guess that Huck will be held accountable for those decisions.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Martha, I realize that. I lived in Arkansas during part of Huckabee’s time as governor. I’ve been critical of him in the past, and it’s no secret that I’m a Palin supporter. Still, our Creator gives all of us sinners chances to redeem ourselves. Huckabee had one last chance to grow a spine and act like a man, and, rather than rise to the occasion, he fell back on his patterns of past behavior.
It’s really strange for me, because despite all I know about Huckabee, I wanted to like him. He has serious character deficiencies, but there’s some good in him also, at least in my opinion. He reminds me a lot of Bill Clinton in that way.
Regardless, DanL is right in that this benefits Palin the most, especially in Iowa. She’s the last conservative standing, unless Haley Barbour, Mike Pence or some other conservative jumps into the fray. Otherwise, a classic Outsider versus Establishment battle is shaping up. I expect Mitt Romney will work hard to cast off his image as an establishment Republican and try to position himself as somewhere in the middle between Palin the outsider and Pawlenty the establishment guy, although Romney is the true darling of the GOP establishment.
- JP
November 30th, 2009 at 11:07 am
By your definition, Huckabee is guilty of blasphemy since as an ordain minister, he judged people all the time. Your argument is without merit. He did not attempt to claim to be good or have his power. You really should rethink you words, as the words blasphemy has a very special meaning and should not be used willy nilly.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:08 am
37. should read, ‘Now, those decisions have led to the loss of at least 5 lives.’
November 30th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Thunder,
Huck presumed to give us the names of people who will be condemned to hell?
November 30th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Why is it that when it someone you support they are conservative, and when you do not, they are not conservative.
If find Romney to be the most conservative out there and Palin to be a populist. So, you point is without merit.
How ever, to you other point, it does benefit Palin considerably if she does run, she they both draw from the social conservative (evangilical wing) of the conservatives (but not from the economic conservatives).
November 30th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Thunder,
“as the words blasphemy has a very special meaning and should not be used willy nilly.”
I am aware of that, and I don’t use it lightly. When anyone presumes to judge as only God Almighty can judge, and presumes to tell us who is or will be damned to hell- that’s blasphemy, and I’ll call them out on it, no matter who the object is of their damnation.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Hmmmm. Everyone judges everyone else. And scripture doesn’t tell us not to judge. To the contrary, it tells us to “judge with righteous judgment” in the books of John and Matthew. And we are reminded that when we judge, we must be aware that God is also judging us.
Actions have consequences.
- JP
November 30th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Preachers usually do, but since Huckabee is not releasing his sermons (wonder what he is hiding), its hard to say who he has condemned). But isn’t it what preachers usually do, say this group is going here and this group is going there?
November 30th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Thunder,
Your presumptions about Huck aside, there is a difference in proclaiming “This is what you must do to be saved” on the one hand, and saying, “Joe will be/has been condemned to hell” on the other.
The first is merely repeating what has been revealed to us. The latter presumes to know the soul of an individual, which only God can know.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Then by your own words you have judged yourself as being guilty of blasphemy as you have judged another of being guilty, to which as you stated only God can do.
However, you are factually, incorrect, Christ has giving power many times to his servants to judge. While Christ is the ultimate judge (You might say the Supreme Court of Judges)
November 30th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Josh,
#44. Yes, we need to judges actions. That is different that judging souls.
When Jesus said, “Judge not, lest you be judged,” he was talking about judging souls- which belongs to God alone.
Example of judging actions:
“Huck was very very very wrong to give clemency to that guy.”
Example of judging souls:
Dan’s #9 sums it up nicely.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Thunder,
“Then by your own words you have judged yourself as being guilty of blasphemy as you have judged another”
See the difference in #48.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Huckabee doesn’t hold 100% of the blame, but he did participate in releaseing a murdurous criminal. He hasn’t taken responsibility for it either. I think this will only push him further away from a 2012 run.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:22 am
MWS, I completely disagree with your definition of blasphemy. The scriptures are rife with examples of persons passing judgment on transgressors. How could you possible reconcile the law of Moses requiring average, ordinary believers to stone transgressors? The American jurisprudence system also requires the passing of judgments. Depriving someone of life or liberty is very much godlike in its judgment and the imposed sentence. By your view of blasphemy we would have no recourse to punish criminals.
You only make this argument because you are a Huck apologist. You have sunk to OJ levels of having blinders on in regards to your favorite candidate.
You can continue this argument, but I have said all that I will in regards to blashpemy.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:23 am
“4 people are dead because MIKE HUCKABEE took the action he took.” Do you Romneyite know silly you sound. How many people are dead because of MAcare? Nobody knows, but while some might take political advantage of the situation and of course rightfully question Mr. Romney’s judgment. There are not a whole lot of non-Romneyite screaming silly things like Mr. Romney has blood on his hands of that Mr. Romney is personally responsible for those who died because of MAcare. Exploding loose cannons does not even begin to describe such silly non-sense.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Dan,
“The scriptures are rife with examples of persons passing judgment on transgressors.”
Right. See #48.
“You only make this argument because you are a Huck apologist.”
Not at all. I went 15 rounds for the LDS against Andrew and bpb. I take theological assertions very seriously- much more seriously than politics and the spin that goes with it. If someone would presume to damn Romney to hell for something he did or didn’t do, I’d be the first to call them out on it, if I saw it.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Martha, it is pretty obvious why MWS wants to talk about the definition of blasphemy–he certainly doesn’t want to talk about the merits of the topic does he?? Simply trying to divert the issue to the definition of a word, or better yet, that no one should presume to judge a candidate by their actions.
But this isn’t going away and there is no little post by Graham on this site that is going to change what has occurred.
And yes, the Fox gig, if Huckabee survives this, will look better and better.
Wonder if the opposition will be digging into the crimes committed by all of the criminals Huckabee released over the opposition of prosecutors, law enforcment, and crime victims.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:29 am
“You only make this argument because you are a Huck apologist. You have sunk to OJ levels of having blinders on in regards to your favorite candidate.” Blinder? You are the one with your head in sand. Never again will you be able to say that Mrs. Palin used bad judgment by quitting. By your very own logic. Mrs. Palin deserves 100% credit for the great job that Mr. Parnell is doing. After all, you claim that Mr. Huckabee is to blame for 4 dead police officers despite the fact that Mr. Huckabee neither pulled the trigger nor failed to prosecute the killer.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:29 am
‘“4 people are dead because MIKE HUCKABEE took the action he took.” Do you Romneyite know silly you sound.’
They sound a whole lot more rational and credible than you when you blame NY-23 or TARP on Romney.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
OJ, it is impossible in one day to address all of the complete failures of logic that you present us with in one thread.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:32 am
“They sound a whole lot more rational and credible than you when you blame NY-23 or TARP on Romney.” Ah no, Mr. Romney made a specific choice with regards to NY-23 and TARP. While Mr. Huckabee did make a choice on NY-23, he did not choose to kill policemen.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Does all of those blaming Huckabee for commuting (to change (a penalty) to another less severe) or clemency (to moderate the severity of punishment due) REALLY believe the sentence passed on that 17 year old boy was fair? Was that teen properly represented in court? Was he represented by some over worked public attorney? Would he have had that same sentence if he would have been wealthy and white? Those questions plus many more should have been taken into consideration by any Governor worthy of his office while reviewing the case.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:33 am
OJ, the MAss plan is rated number 2 in the nation for overall health outcomes, so it’s idiotic to ask that question of how many people are dead because of Romneycare.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Granny T, was Clemmons guilty of his crimes? YES! Was the sentence fair? YES! Therefore your other issues are without merit.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:36 am
“OJ, the MAss plan is rated number 2 in the nation for overall health outcomes,” I freaking want to know who was so silly as to rank the MA plan #2. I would like to hire the guy as a comedian.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Thunder, there are many conservatives who are not convinced of Mitt Romney’s adherence to conservative principles. He has taken too many opposing positions on too many issues.
Palin’s appeal may be populist, but she governed as a conservative federalist. The few times she took actions which were criticized by conservatives, she did so on constitutional grounds. She didn’t veto a measure to provide benefits to same sex partners because her state’s attorney general advised that to do so would be in violation of Alaska’s constituion. When she raised the production tax on the oil companies by 2.5%, she did so because Alaska’s constitution designated Alaskan citizens as the owners of those resources and the beneficiaries of the production tax. And she increased the tax exemptions on the exploration tax by four times the increase in the production tax. Otherwise, her record has overwhelmingly been one of a tax-cutter and a budget cutter.
RomneyCare increased Mass. state spending by $276.4 million in 2007 alone. Over the next decade, projections suggest that RomneyCare will cost $2-$4 billion more than was budgeted. And the legislation created an entirely new bureaucracy. What was the constitutional rationaization for that? Factor is Romeny’s changing positions on gun rights, abortion and the rest, and the argument that Romney is Conservative Lite is a strong one.
- JP
November 30th, 2009 at 11:38 am
“Therefore your other issues are without merit.” Wow!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 11:38 am
OJ,
You’re not making any sense. Romney doesn’t hold elective office – so he is not responsible for TARP. Romney never got to choose the NY-23 GOP candidate and simply stayed out of the way. That’s not his fault either. Huckabee’s actions likely were responsible for a chain of events leading to kill policemen. Had he not acted that would not have happened.
Understand the difference now? It doesn’t matter what “specific choice” Romney made on NY-23 and TARP. He wasn’t a player.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:39 am
OJ, he chose to release violent criminals with a full knowledge of the rates of recidvism, or at lease as governor, he should have known. He is very, very guilty here, no matter how much you try to make it sound otherwise.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:39 am
The “boy” had a history – and he was charged with multiple crimes including gun posession, robbery, and theft. The sentence speaks to the crimes. Either because his crimes were so severe that they directly earned that sentence, or because the people of Arkansas saw what happened when those guilty of those kinds at that age turned out to be when they got out.
—
“While Mr. Huckabee did make a choice on NY-23, he did not choose to kill policemen.”
He didn’t choose to kill policemen, just as Obama didn’t choose to run up a huge debt. But actions – in all cases – have consequences. We don’t judge a leader in this country by their actions, but by the results of their actions.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:44 am
OHIO JOE…It’s called America’s Health rankings by the United Health Foundation. I was wrong, the 2009 rankings are that Massachusetts is #3, not #2.
http://www.americashealthrankings.org/measure/2009/overall.aspx
November 30th, 2009 at 11:49 am
“OJ, he chose to release violent criminals with a full knowledge of the rates of recidvism, or at lease as governor, he should have known.” Well then you know a lot more about the case than most of us because so far it appears that this man was not this violent monster at the time of pardoning. His violent streak became evident afterward.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:49 am
OJ, an ‘I stand corrected’ would be in order.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:51 am
I am sorry ConservativeRepublican, but you expect me to take seriously a group that put Vermont as # 1.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:55 am
MIKE HUCKABEE – COP KILLER
November 30th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Did you even study the individual charts OJ? Click on each state for a lot more detail. You will find this was a very extesive study, not just someone voting on who was best.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:57 am
If this was his ONLY pardon then he might have a political future. However, he pardoned over 1000 criminals and that is called a PATTERN.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
This could be fatal. This was ONE pardon. One thousand more are just waiting to bite him in the ass. Does the GOP want that hanging out there? Remember what Bush did to Dukakis in 1988? Why would the GOP give the Democrats the opportunity to paint our nominee as soft on crime? That would be insane. God Boy might have just lost his chance to be a credible candidate. It’s kinda too bad because I was hoping for a HuckaPalin Catfight.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
“Did you even study the individual charts OJ? Click on each state for a lot more detail. You will find this was a very extesive study, not just someone voting on who was best.” That is fine and dandy, but you will note that some of the 22 measures have to do with binge drinking, smoking and other such behaviors. There is no doubt that such poor behaviors is in part responsible for the poor health of many Americans. However, these items are largely separate from how health care systems are actually run in America or any other country. Frankly it is a tribute to capitalism that Americans are in good health despite poor behaviors like drinking and eating junk food.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
“If this was his ONLY pardon then he might have a political future. However, he pardoned over 1000 criminals and that is called a PATTERN.” Yes, one can argue that Mr. Huckabee showed very poor judgement for letting out 1000 criminals, but that is very different from blaming him for the deaths of the 4 policemen.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
The problem here is that two of these released prisoners by Huckabee have killed 5 innicoent people, and there are hundreds more out there. This is a huge potential liability for Huckabee. The question becomes, “who is next?” A pattern is developing. These early releases were guys who said they had found Jesus, and Huckabee quickly commuted their sentences.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I read that when Clemmons was arrested for the parole violation that put him back in jail in Arkansas years ago; his case was dropped due to mistakes by the prosecution and/or arresting officers. Clemmons was recently arrested for new very serious charges and released on bail in Washington. If all of that is true; no wonder Huckabee says the criminal justice system failed miserably.
There is an article at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577845,00.html
November 30th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Huck needs to come out explain why he let this man out of prison. I didn’t hear any clear cut explanation. He needs to come out and explain why this man was released. I supported him in 2008 but if he continues to dodge the question or pass the buck he won’t get my support this time. I kind of leaning twards Palin anyway it would solidify it if she runs I’m also considering Johnson as well.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Wonder whatever happened to Romney’s famous judicial appointee Ms. Tuttman?
November 30th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Limbaugh is on about it now saying “This may Be Huckabee’s Willie Horton”.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
You people keep trying to put partial blame on other people. The fact is, they are not running for POTUS any time soon. FACT: If Huckabee had not released this guy from prison early, he wouldn’t have killed these four policeman. It doesn’t get any simpler than that.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
“This may Be Huckabee’s Willie Horton” -Rush
What does he mean “may be”. This is his second Willie Horton the only question is who will be his third of the 1000+ he let go. That would be a quick way to tank the general election, just let Obama follow the 1000+ around and report what they do.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
84 nate, you make a great point. If there are any patriots on the right then they need to exactly that and expose anything they find about recidivism and Huck’s paroles. Beat the dems to the punch so that Huck won’t hand Obama another victory.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
I think Romneycare is Romney’s Willie Horton.
So is his support for the bailout.
So is his pro-abortion rhetoric.
So is his support for gun control…
Need I go on?
November 30th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
i think it was flip dixon who advised huck to let him out. no proof, just a hunch.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Time to give Pawlenty a better look.
Huck may be damaged goods and looking less likely he will even run.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
What Rush says matters to the conservative base.
This is not going to be good for Huck when Fox and Rush have no choice but to pursue the story. Imagine what they would do if a democratic governor had Huckabee’s pardon/commutation history. The only thing helping Huck is that he is a part of Fox–and republican.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
I fully expect Fawn News to cover for Huck. Especially O’Reilly. It will become the Huck Apologist Channel.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
I’m certainly no Huckabee supporter, but all of this parole stuff came up during 2008, and it didn’t really affect Huck that much in the end.
Rush also opposed Huck and McCain quite strongly (along with Ann Coulter and a number of others) and McCain and Huck finished first and second in the 2008 race.
So I doubt any of this is fatal to Huck, and his favorables in the GOP are currently sky-high. Romney’s are low by comparison — pretty shocking given his lack of scandal/gaffes.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Look, this is a big problem for the Governor, whether his actions could have prevented what happened or not. It doesn’t matter. It’s already popping up in newstories that Huckabee commuted the sentence of this s.o.b. The perception is going to be out there that if Governor Huckabee hadn’t commuted this guy’s sentence what happened in Washington wouldn’t have happened.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
This doesnt look very good for Huckabee, which is too bad because he and Romney have been polling best against Obama.
I heard the KIRO radio guy say that this should and would bury any chance Huckabee has for the presidency. It was all they have played since on the radio station here in CO. I think for sure that this will cost Huckabee any hope he had out west.
as for the usual Romney suspects who are piling on, I sure wish you wouldnt do so. Not good manners to say the least. Besides making personal benefits no one.
As for who this benefits the most in 2012. I see it benefitting Pawlenty more than anyone. I think it doesnt help nor hurt Romney. Palin, I am not convinced she runs, but if she does it may help her in IA, she still has to prove she can win on the national level , i fear she represents too much of an extreme viewpoint(precived to be extreme) to get the whole country behind her.
bottom line, its the big two and 1/2 now instead of the big 3 (Romney and Palin, and the 1/2 is Pawlenty,if he can stick)
November 30th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Yeah, Huck came in second — one month after Romney dropped out when it was inevitable McCain would be the nominee, and after Romney’s Michigan delegates were awarded to McCain and Huckabee. You could at be intellectually honest about how the Huckster came in “second”. Without the MI delegates, he would be third. So essentially he did come in third, still one month after Romney dropped out.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
“I fully expect Fawn News to cover for Huck.”
They aren’t. I linked to the story above that Fox has already covered.
—
“So I doubt any of this is fatal to Huck, and his favorables in the GOP are currently sky-high. Romney’s are low by comparison — pretty shocking given his lack of scandal/gaffes.”
Thats because Huckabee has never really had to undergo the kind of testing that Romney or McCain or even Palin have. Nobody went after Huck until very late in the game last time – when people were already looking to focus on Christmas and other things. McCain certainly never attacked Huckabee, because he was doing his dirty work, and after that, Huck got his TV show.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Unforunately Huckabee’s statement blaming the criminal justice system for this felon being on the street is going to help him. That was a TERRIBLE statement on his part.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
True. Huckabee was never a threat. He was never going to win. Even he knew it – hence his affinity for miracles instead of math.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
92 – I can’t believe how long it is taking for that simple fact to soak into the heads on here.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Like Ricky Ricardo used to say “Lucy you some explaining to do” That is what Gov. Huckabee is going to have to do and take responsibility for his actions. I actually like Gov. Huckabee as a person I think he is sincere as a Christain but he being a Pastor let his heart of being a Pastor got in the way of his Govorning. We also should not agravate the Huck supporters too much we are going to need them to help us defeat Obama.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Well said Jerry. I do think this is a huge blow to Huckabee, and I don’t think Romney will be the beneficiary of it.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Gee, what happened to Romnney’s MI delegates?
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#MI
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/#R
So after one month of staying for no good reason — Huck has 7 for delegates than Romney. Of course, that counting the delegates that were taken away from Mitt’s MI win, while Huck got to keep his.
Why can’t we be intellectually honest that Huck ‘came in second’ the same way he ‘won’ in WV. He didn’t, unless counting the fudged numbers.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
I think we can all agree that whatever happens to Huck, it won’t help Mittens at all.
If Huck fades, it could be a huge boon to Pawlenty, who also has strong ties to the evangelical community.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
i cant beleive i am about to do this, but I am going to engage Flip in a discussion.
If Hucks folks move to Pawlenty and not Palin, doesnt that help Romney in the long run more? In other words, the worst case for Romney is if Hucks folks all go to Palin,. but by going to Pawlenty doesnt that aid Mitt after IA as the IA loser’s supporters will go to Romney in NH and beyond
November 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
A rare moment of intelligence, congrats!
November 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Why is/was Huckabee ever considered a Conservative (based on his Record from Arkansas)???
He certainly wasn’t proved to be a Fiscal Conservative!
He certainly wasn’t proved to be a law and order Conservative!
He supported the Texas decision in favor of gay rights.
Okay, I know he was pro-life and a Evangelical minister, but is that all it takes to be called a Conservative?
November 30th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Pawlenty isn’t a threat. He just isn’t well known enough, and the establishment won’t support him to go up again the incumbent. Pawlenty may very well be a great candidate, but he won’t get the nomination this go around.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Reply to 103 corep.
It is likely that the vast majority of supporters of Huckabee will stick with him as long as possible, then they will go for the anyone but Romney candidate, depending who that turns out to be.
The one way it might help Romney is that it will likely depress his voter base. No one can turn out evangelicals like Huckabee can/could.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Bwett: if each of the Big 3 run, he has a limited opening, but if one or two of the Big 3 do not run (or falter) Mr. Pawlenty will be in good shape all of a sudden.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
It appears possible both Palin and Huckabee won’t be running in 2011. Romney’s too divisive in the Republican Party to not face a well-funded opponent though.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
108 – No doubt, but he can’t win. It won’t happen. If History teaches us one thing, it’s that Republicans don’t run first timers with little to no name recognition.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
“The perception is going to be out there that if Governor Huckabee hadn’t commuted this guy’s sentence what happened in Washington wouldn’t have happened.”
No, that part is fact, not perception.
—
The problem is that Pawlenty can’t win the nomination – he could come close, but he’s not well known enough to win. The GOP doesn’t pick new guys to be the nominee.
And Pawlenty, unfortunately, isn’t going to be VP.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
He is only divisive in your own mind, for many true conservatives, Romney is a breath of fresh air. And there never was going to be a well funded opposition to Romney, or they would have appeared on the Radar by now.
Okay, I am going to call it now.
Romney/Pawlenty 2012.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
This revelation (and tragedy) has the prospect of being much more damaging that Dumond, or Horton for that matter.
First, it involves 4 police officers and that will ratchet up the weight and durability of the story through the 2012 cycle and as long as Mr. Huckabee chooses to seek a place of influence and judgment. It just won’t go away.
Second, unlike the Dumond and Horton incidents, which came to light during the frantic days of campaigning, when no one has enough time in the day, this one happens with lots of time to do research. I expect that by the time we get to late 2011 or early 2012, opposing campaigns and PAC’s will know the whereabouts and criminal activities of the remaining 1031 personalities who were pardoned or whose sentences were commuted by Huckabee, repentant sinners all. Given the high rate of re-offense, I expect that of the 200+ felons so involved, there will be hundreds of victims of violent crimes perpetrated during a period when they would otherwise still have been the wards of the state of AK.
And this reality has nothing to do with how anyone personally feels about Mike Huckabee.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
“Romney/Pawlenty 2012.”
Two blue-state governors from the North, both more known as pragmatists than anything else, both with healthcare and budgets as the star on the resume?
They’re too similar.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Romney will do well with the more educated part of the republican party and the independent party, and they are more lilely to have the funds to donate for 2012. Those who like fiscal conservatism will certainly appreciate Romney’s abilities and track record in 2012.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
#133,
Huck has always had a soft spot for criminals, Especially those that are related:
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/70939/
#112,
Romney / DeMint 2012
November 30th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
#113, (sorry)
Huck has always had a soft spot for criminals, Especially those that are related:
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/70939/
November 30th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Martha,
Give it a rest. It’s a tragic situation and it will likely hurt Huckabee’s political. What more do you want? Do you want us on our hands and knees saying how bad Huckabee is? Not going to happen.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
118. Yes, a little intellectual honesty would be refreshing.
Adam Graham is not capable of it. Anyone?
Yes, I hope this tragedy effectively ends Huck’s political career. I don’t think FOX is likely too happy, either. The pardons have bugged me for the longest time. Too bad it took a tragedy like this to shed the needed light on Huck’s lack of judgement.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
So it looks like Huckabee commutes the sentence and allows for parole. He get’s paroled, but is arrested again. At that point, IMO, Huckabee’s responsibility is (to a great deal, but not completely) over. Once he was arrested again, his previous sentence is irrelevant. Prosecutors should have put him back in prison for life for parole violation… the fact that they didn’t leaves much of the responsibility on their door step.
I’ll give a hypothetical example: If Criminal X commits a crime, Governor B lets him out. After a while, Criminal X commits another crime and goes back to jail. In 10 years, Criminal X is paroled, and commits another crime. Is Governor B still responsible? Perhaps he’s responsible for the crime Criminal X committed that put him back into jail, but not the subsequent crime… the timeline of responsibility doesn’t fit.
Now, I know this will upset folks like Keith Olbermann and those on the left who like to blame any and everything on the right… and I know there are a lot of folks on the right who don’t like Huckabee and will try to blame him for this as well… but I’m not sure you can really pin this on his actions. He shouldn’t have allowed the parole board to hear this guys case, for sure… but this crime was not a direct result of him getting paroled. It was the result of later crimes, and their failure to be punished appropriately.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
120. What don’t you get about Huck starting the problem in the first place?
None of it would have happened if the man was never out on parole, which Huck was directly responsible for.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Martha,
Do you think a 16 year old getting 108 years for 3 non-violent crimes is justice?
November 30th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
122 MWS, prosecutors, the judge, jurors, and the original writers of the laws under which Clemmons was convicted all felt that 108 years were justice.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
#112 Oh wake up kid.
If everyone loved Romney he’d have been the nominee in 2012. He couldn’t buy the nomination last time. He may be able to buy the nomination in 2012 but he’ll face competition as he’s not liked by half the party.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
124. So far, the competition doesn’t look too sharp.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
124,
I can remember in 2008 how upset I’d get when I would hear or Read something like, “well, it’s HIS TURN (McCain)” from the establishment experts. I think I’ve mellowed a little since then.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Dan,
#123
Really? They all weighed in on sentencing and clemency and parole? Really?
But even if that were the case, that wasn’t my question. Is giving a 16 year old 108 years for 3 non-violent crimes justice?
December 1st, 2009 at 7:41 am
[...] “…On top of that, he was released by a judge in Washington before the shooting. Now one could reasonably say the Washington state prosecutors and the judge made a huge error in releasing the guy. But before you blame Huckabee, you have to look at the incompetent prosecutors in Arkansas who after the release failed basic procedural requirements and ended up letting the guy go. Look, the usual suspects are out (Huckabashers all), just like a season from Casablanca, but the blame Huckabee effort is unseemly, and it verges on morbid politics…” [...]
December 1st, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Mike Huckabee: I Take Full Responsibility
December 1st, 2009
From Mike Huckabee:
Mike Huckabee: I Take Full Responsibility
The nation was stunned by the senseless and savage cold-blooded murders of 4 young police officers in Lakewood, Washington. Whenever a police officer or soldier is killed, I feel the loss is even more profound for they are the ones who stand between our freedom and anarchy.
At the time I write these words, police are still searching for Maurice Clemmons who is believed to be the one committing these unspeakable acts. Nine years ago, that name crossed my desk. I commuted his sentence from 108 years to 47 years. Many news reports, talk show hosts, and bloggers have erroneously said that he was granted a “pardon.” Others speak of me “setting him free.” As one who now hosts a talk show and who does daily radio commentaries, I can attest to how easy commentary is compared to actually governing. I am not seeking to justify or defend my actions of nine years ago, but it’s important that I answer for my actions and give some explanation as to how and why his sentence was commuted.
I take full responsibility for my actions of nine years ago. I acted on the facts presented to me in 2000. If I could have possibly known what Clemmons would do nine years later, I obviously would have made a different decision. But if the same file was presented to me today, I would have likely made the same decision.
Each state is different, but in Arkansas, a governor doesn’t initiate a parole—the Post Prison Transfer Board does after it conducts a thorough review of an inmate’s file and request. The board then makes a recommendation to the governor, who decides to grant or deny.
If the decision is made to grant any form of clemency (the broad term for a commutation or a full pardon), the governor gives notice of intent and the file is sent to the prosecutor, judge, law enforcement officials, the Attorney General, and the Secretary of State as well as to the news media. A period of 30 days is then started for there to be public input as well as response from the above named officials. At the end of the public response period, the final decision is rendered.
Between 1,000 and 1,200 requests for some form of clemency came to my desk each and every one of the 10 ½ years I was governor. Ninety-two percent of the time, I denied the requests. When I did grant them, it was usually based on the recommendation of at least five of the members of the PPTB, with consideration given to the input from public officials.
Maurice Clemmons was 16 years old when he was charged with burglary and robbery. He was sentenced to a total of 108 years based on the way in which the sentences were stacked. For the crimes he committed and the age at which he committed the crimes, it was dramatically outside the norm for sentencing. The PPTB recommended in 2000 by a 5-0 vote for his sentence to be commuted.
He had served 11 years of his sentence. A pardon would have set him free and cleared his record. A commutation to “time served” would have set him free and released him from any parole reporting. As per the recommendation, I commuted his sentence to the term of 47 years, still a long sentence for the type of crime he had committed, but it would make him parole eligible. It would not parole him, as governors do not have that power in Arkansas. He would have to separately apply for parole and meet the criteria for that.
Despite news reports to the contrary, the only record of public response to the notice to commute was from the trial judge, who recommended the commendation in concert with the board. There were letters of support, but no record of letters of opposition.
Following the commutation, he met the criteria for parole and was paroled to supervision in late 2000. When he violated terms of his parole by participating in additional crimes, he was returned to prison and should have stayed there. For reasons only the prosecutor can explain, charges were not brought forth in a timely way and the prosecutor ended up dropping the charges, allowing him to leave prison and return to supervised parole.
He moved to Washington state and had intermittent criminal activity that increased in violence and frequency. He was allowed to post bail in Washington state and while on bail from there committed the unspeakable acts of murdering four valiant police officers. I can’t explain why he wasn’t prosecuted properly for the parole violations or why he was allowed to make bail in Washington state and not incarcerated earlier for crimes committed there.
I wish his file had never crossed my desk, but it did. The decision I made is one that I now wish were different, but I could only look backwards at his case, not forward. None of this is of any comfort to the families of these police officers nor should it be. Their loss is senseless. No words or deeds by anyone will bring them back to their loved ones. Our system is not perfect and neither are those responsible for administering it.
The system and those of us who are supposed to make sure it works sometimes fail. In this case, we clearly did.
December 4th, 2009 at 8:41 am
[...] Monday, Adam Graham put up a solid defense of Huckabee as not being at fault over the Maurice Clemmons shootings, and he ended by saying, [...]