Looking at the GOP side of this fiasco, there are many losers and few winners:
The Biggest Loser: New York-23rd GOP Organization
Based on her endorsement of Bill Owens and the conduct of her campaign, it is clear the GOP had made big-time error in choosing Dede Scozzafava as the party nominee. It shouldn’t have happened. In addition, the New York Conservative Party is not a fly by night organization. They’ve been in the state for 40 years. They’re also not horribly unreasonable. They’ve endorsed moderate candidates like Rick Lazio, Al D’Amato, Susan Molinari, and George Pataki. Obtaining the endorsement of the New York Conservative Party is vital to Republicans winning elections as the CP acts as a minimum standards committee, and for this not to have even been taken into consideration is unconscienable. Heads should roll. A half-way decent candidate that could have pulled an ACU score of 70% would have easily won this district.
The Runner-Up: Sarah Palin
This district was a watershed for Sarah Palin’s leadership. Like her running mate, John McCain, she plays high stakes poker. She gambled on Hoffman, and her endorsement was the turning point for Scozzafava’s demise. However, after Tuesday’s result, there are many questions focusing on Palin regarding her leadership, her popularity and whether outside of the South and some portions of the West, her endorsement is a general election albatross. A Hoffman success would have been a notch in her belt, but if anything’s become apparent, it’s that her image may need far more rehab than 3 years can allow.
First Runner-Up: Newt Gingrich
Gingrich, since becoming a Catholic Convert has been warning about our spiritual rot and corruption, the degradation of our society, and been talking a lot about conservative principles. Of course, it’s more important to win elections. Newt’s pedantic lectures, however right or wrong they were was completely inappropriate for someone who wishes to lead his party as its nominee. If Newt’s attacks did anything, it hardened opposition. Unless, the correct book for presidential candidates to read is, “How to Make Enemies and Alienate People,” it’s hard to see how what did was peoplesmart. If he wants to lecture, give him a thinktank, give him a column. But, if he wants to be the GOP nominee, give me a break.
Second Runner Up: Tim Pawlenty
I don’t think Pawlenty’s entrance into NY-23 hurt him near as much as Palin’s did. First of all, he’s very nationally obscure, so most people didn’t notice, and it didn’t have the same effect. However, political observers and party operatives whose help he’ll need on a 2012 campaign are going to view this as a rookie mistake, and nobody wants to work for a campaign that makes rookie mistakes. He can overcome it, but its a ding.
Honorable Mentions:
The Club for Growth: Spending $1 million to lose is tough. The best the Club can say is that when the GOP nominates a candidate to challenge Owens in 2010, they’ll be sure that candidate fits the fairly generous margins of the Conservative Party of New York.
There are too many other “losers” to mention. The problem comes down to this: too many Conservatives jumped into a race in a district they knew nothing about to support a candidate who didn’t live in the district. The overwhelming outside play gave people the impression not that there was a grassroots insurgency, but that outsiders were picking their Congressman for them. It didn’t help that the party’s nominee was as graceful and intelligent as Goofy after drinking an entire keg of beer.
Were there any winners in this whole affair? Two.
Huckabee and Romney. Both had the political smarts to stay away from this hot potato (while there were three candidates in the race), as well as to avoid lecturing grassroots Conservatives: the very people whose support they’ll need if they choose to run in 2012. While, it’s perfectly permissable to not campaign for a candidate that you don’t care for, or not endorse them. To actively try to undermine the decisions of a local party, no matter how worthy those decisions are of being undermined. is foolishness. Huckabee and Romney showed why they are the fronturnners.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:44 am
Completely agree with you. The party here needs to learn a good lesson about candidates and not select ones like Scozzafava that are going to provoke a similar situation.
Sarah Palin meanwhile needs to get a talkshow and walk off the stage as a Republican leader.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:49 am
Let me add another group of losers right next to Palin:
Limbaugh, Beck, and all the rest of those kids.
Check out Limbaugh back at the start of this:
http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/11/03/limbaugh_ny-23_is_a_real_turning_point.html
Because anyone who isn’t a part of the conservative purist movement is a Rockefeller Republican
November 4th, 2009 at 1:51 am
This race is why primaries are so important. If there had been an actual Republican Primary, Bill Owens would not be Congressman-Elect. The NYGOP needs to institute primaries, even for special elections so that this fiasco doesn’t happen again.
As for the 2012 candidates, Romney and Huckabee were smart in their silence. This was a terrible situation for the Party and no one involved in this race really comes out looking well.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:57 am
This is right, Adam.
We could have had that seat if everyone kept their nose out.
I think Romney’s actions were slightly better than Huck’s if only in the way they each went about explaining the whats and the whys. But in the end, both men did the right thing, and took a lot of heat in the process.
Palin acts first, thinks later. Sometimes it works, but it’s not the type of decision-making I’m looking for.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:58 am
Make no mistake tonight was a total and utter repudiation of the Palin-Beck-Rush axis (of evil) who have tried to take over our once great party.
The way they all blindly ran to this Hoffman guy who was not a local, was totally useless and uncharasmatic and was too afraid to even debate.
Surely at least one positive from this diabacle is that 1) Sarah Palin should now never be heard of again and 2) Rubio now has even less chance than he did before.
HOFFMAN BABY HOFFMAN indeed lol.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:58 am
I’ve been a big fan of Rush for years, but these guys are getting a little too full of themselves as of late. I like this slap-down a lot.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:03 am
Right on.
Tonight was the perfect night. It showed that good-sense pragmatic problem solving center-right conservatism wins. McDonnell won by 17 points and Christie won in New Jersey!
Tonight also showed that “divided we fall”. Local issues matter much more than propping up a carpetbagger with no knowledge of the issues just to prove a point.
The Republican Party knows there is a minimum acceptable standard for nominees. Palin knows (or should) that sticking her nose in and supporting third party candidates is a stupid move. And one that should NOT be replicated.
All in all, just great.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:04 am
For good measure though we can also remember that the Democrats are taking from this the need to be more true to the progressive agenda or get destroyed like Deeds. Kos has been crying about weak Dem turnout. Or, the exact same thing Rush and Palin were pushing in NY. Somehow I don’t think Corzine and Deeds lost because they failed to be vocal about supporting Obamacare.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:04 am
The lesson isn’t just to meet the minimum standards of the Conservative Party, but to nominate somebody who is both ideologically acceptable and is engaged in the local issues as well as the national and international ones. Voters want to vote for people who care about THEM, and what THEY care about.
Mitt initiated MassCare because he was attempting to solve a societal problem that genuinely affected a lot of people in his state. Our candidates have to offer voters solutions—not just platitudes.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:05 am
I especially love that Palin got smacked down
November 4th, 2009 at 2:13 am
10. Gotta loooove that.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:26 am
All’s not bad in NY. We won two more seats in the NYC council, and took back control of Nassau Co. (Long Island). http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/nassau-republicans-take-back-legislature-1.1567448
November 4th, 2009 at 2:26 am
One more thing: Given that Obama campaigned actively for Deeds and Corzine, the REALLY big loser is obviously Obama. Republicans won at least 6, and possibly all 7, of the statewide races in Pennsylvania. Republicans picked up new mayors in Miami and St. Petersburg. We won a special state senate race in Michigan that had been held by the Dems. It was a broad-based rejection of the Obama presidency.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:29 am
Also, GOP takes over Westchester Co. executive.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:31 am
Mitt & Mike appear to be the only well known grown ups in the party at the moment.
Don’t rule out Mitt allowing Mike to be VP if the likes of Thune and Jindal don’t work out.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:31 am
Graham,
As much as I would like to say you’re wrong, you aren’t far off from my thinking on this NY-23 defeat.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:40 am
I fail to understand Kos’s point. If I remember correctly, Deeds got nominated mostly BECAUSE he had the most liberal platform of the three Democratic candidates. What more do they want from Virginia? But maybe I should shut up, so they do follow the Kos strategy…
November 4th, 2009 at 2:43 am
How is this bad for Palin? Hoffman loses but Palin gains more credibility with the grassroots conservatives while holding on to the outsider brand
She isn’t running for president so the only thing she needs to do is to get adjusted to her new role as Queen Maker.
Mitt wishes he had this kind of power.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:44 am
If the Democrats want to get into the whole “progressivism uber alles!” business I’m all for it. It’ll undermine all the effort they’ve made to seem like a party that welcomes everyone.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:47 am
What’s the point of having power if you can’t exercise it for you own good?
Queen maker oooo how exciting!
Sarah will never play second fiddle to anyone. Whatever she is doing she is doing it for herself – that’s her m.o.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:48 am
How is she queen maker? The GOP’s greatest victories tonight were made while deliberately avoiding being associated with Palin’s conservatism. She has absolutely no stature as a national leader – at this point it’s at about the same level as an average Hollywood media figure.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:48 am
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0VibvgMRn4zDGTwEZjej-eRI1swD9BOHPC82
November 4th, 2009 at 2:50 am
#18.Dan:“Mitt wishes he had this kind of power.”
However did you manage to get him to confess that to you?
November 4th, 2009 at 2:56 am
You gotta admit though that we almost caught lightning in a bottle, hahaha.
We’re pushing libertarianism in the wrong places. Rand Paul is not the best match for Kentucky and Hoffman wasn’t the best match for NY-23. Ironically, you want to emphasize a very socially conservative message in both places. Instead, Hoffman was emphasizing a libertarianism/Club for Growth message in an area that relies on federal earmarks.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:01 am
MPC.#21 has it right. The GOP won big in Virginia and New Jersey, two states in which they requested Palin to please stay away. And Sarah’s campaign made very sure everyone knew she had been asked to coll it. Result? Major wins for GOP.
In NY-23 the GOP was ahead until Sarah decided to endorse a third party. Result: we lose, and the party ends up wasting a ton of money and looking like a bunch of incompetents in the process.
No, Dan, I would not be bragging about Sarah’s “accomplishments” if I were you.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:14 am
I believe this to be the first Democratic win in the District for what 50 years? On the same night that the GOP had historic wins in NJ and Virginia. Gee thanks Sarah.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:18 am
What I didn’t like was the arrogance surrounding the grassroot conservatives. What did they expect Scozzafana to do. She was winning in the polls against Owens 6 days before literally invaded NY-23 with their Conservative candidate Hoffman who was not ready for prime time. They thought the win was in the bag.
The whole idea of the NRCC picking the extremly moderate Scozzafana was nothing more than a political power play to beat the Democrats at their game.. They knew the Dems would try everything to put a Democrat in that seat, so to keep the seat Republican, the NRCC ran someone that would appeal to Democrats, and it was working until the usual suspects showed up with money, people, palin and radio hosts.
The only winner here is Mitt Romney for taking the political risk and staying out as the Republicans caved in one after another to get on the bandwagon to support Hoffman before and after Scozzafana dropped out, they just couldn’t throw the NRCC off the speeding train fast enough.
Now, because of Palin, Rush, Beck, Red State, Thompson, Pawlenty, Club for Growth, Tea Party Oranizers and other prominent people in the Conservative movement, we lost a seat in the House, so I guess the Dems were big winners too.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:18 am
Malek talks about NY-23, Palin, Snowe, Pawlenty, etc.
Fred Malek with Andrea Mitchell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsybMlnpByA&feature=player_embedded#
November 4th, 2009 at 3:25 am
One Daily Kos user actually gets the crux of the issue! (Reading the comments there is a fun exercise in how your foes think)…
“When the other side says we lost because we “weren’t conservative enough,” we on Kos guffaw, but Kos is here saying that we lost because we weren’t liberal enough.”
Of course no one takes him seriously. Perhaps one day this fine soul will find the Republican Party
Ideological purity tends to blind our party to the issues at hand that require the attention of our leaders. Staying away from it allowed McDonnell and Christie to adapt and to win – and now to lead their respective states as they showed they could do. And it sent Hoffman to defeat (where were all those voters just waiting for a staunch conservative like him to stand up and vote for?)
In NY-23, archconservative Hoffman certainly underperformed the more moderate longtime Rep McHugh. Lesson: voters don’t look for conservatives, they look for leaders! In our races, be they moderates or conservatives, we always need to be after leaders. Those are the real substance of our party.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:29 am
#27.lkv,
Don’t forget Huckabee. He stayed out of it, too, until Dede withdrew. So he’s also a winner.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:34 am
Yes, to Huckabee’s credit he avoided what would probably have been otherwise an easy pick for him by not jumping on the conservative purist bandwagon. A very correct move on his part, and for knowing that this was just going to burn everyone in the end that touched it.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:46 am
Yes, Romney and Huckabee appear to have close to the same principles in this area:
(1) If there is a Republican in the race, you do not endorse his opponent.
(2) If you cannot support the Republican, don’t endorse him.
That seems to have stood them in good stead.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:47 am
MPC,
Bro, I know you are trying very hard tonight but even the MSM isn’t playing your narrative. I don’t see anyone really singing your tune outside of this blog.
The Kos kids are complaining about the fact that the media isn’t picking up the storyline that you are pushing. It appears that Palin will get lucky again. Maybe Palin is the new McCain after all when it comes to the MSM
November 4th, 2009 at 3:55 am
By the way guys, Jon Henke, who probably doesn’t agree with Erick Erickson on very much was all-in for Hoffman as well (in fact, Henke went on the Rachel Maddow show, prompting a blog post from our Kristofer Loreilli).
http://twitter.com/jonhenke
He went for Hoffman in order to fix what he perceives to be the problems in the party. It’s a lot more complicated than some zero-sum 2012 game than nobody in the MSM has picked up on (or anywhere else from what I can ascertain from the conservative blogosphere). Obviously, a guy like Henke disagrees with Erickson on what are the problems in the party but they both agreed that what transpired in NY-23 is what ails this party probably more than anything.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:00 am
I thought Huckabee endorsed Hoffman after Scozzafana droped out.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:08 am
MarK
Oh Okay, thanks, I’m trying to catch up on the news, keep getting called away…
November 4th, 2009 at 4:24 am
Oh, what a great night!
Get used to it, folks.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:39 am
Gov. Pawlenty hedges on Snowe
Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R-MN) defines the minimum standard for Republican candidates and dodges the question on whether he would back moderate Republicans like Olympia Snowe.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/33600838#33600838
Panel on Pawlenty’s 2012 chances
The Morning Joe panel considers Pawlenty after he hedged on whether Olympia Snowe should be in the GOP.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/33600887#33600887
November 4th, 2009 at 4:47 am
A Victory for Common Sense and Fiscal Sanity
by Sarah Palin
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=166603523434
November 4th, 2009 at 4:50 am
Democrat Owens beats Conservative Hoffman who Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh supported
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/11/03/2009-11-03_dem_bill_owens_in_lead_in_23rd_district_after_sarah_palin_and_rush_limbaugh_supp.html
A referendum on Palin?
http://online.worldmag.com/2009/11/03/a-referendum-on-palin/
NY-23: 95 Percent of Hoffman Cash From Out of District
http://washingtonindependent.com/66153/ny-23-95-percent-of-hoffman-cash-from-out-of-district
November 4th, 2009 at 6:09 am
Often the Nominee and the VP Select don’t always like each other as much as they fill a need. Depending on how Mike acts, I think its very possible for Mike to be Romney’s VP in order to solidify the Huckabee’s supporters.
As for the NY 23, not all is lost. At least we don’t have an incumbent RINO and hopefully select a decent candidate in 2010. Still, I agree that Romney and Huck were big winners by the way they acted. Who acted better is irrelevant.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:23 am
Maybe this isn’t credible from me, but I don’t see how Pawlenty is much of a loser here. Pawlenty endorsed Hoffman to build up credibility with grassroots conservatives; Hoffman’s loss has done nothing to diminish that accomplishment. Unlike in the case of Palin, there’s never been even the faint suggestion that Pawlenty is some kind of kiss of death. Nor do I think the party people are going to be especially angry with him. After the Palin endorsement, the ONLY sensible bet was to go all in with Hoffman and hope for the best. The party people realized that soon enough and had all but withdrawn their financial support of Dede before she dropped out.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:46 am
RE: #39: Sarah Palins Face Book Memo: “A Victory for Common Sense and Fiscal Sanity”
I think Sarah Palin is trying too hard … She’s seeing herself as a patriot and leader of a revolution, talking about tireless grassroots patriots who worked hard for the underdog citizen candidate Doug Hoffman, with the promise of future citizen candidates.
This no longer sounds like a conservative movement, it sounds like an underground movement, with the promise of this being only the beginning, reminding us in Ronald Reagan words that the cause goes on, because we all want that shinning city on a hill…
She found a new way of marketing herself and sounds like she’s teaming up with Glenn Beck and is using his book Common Sense as a handbook….. Glenn Becks’s book “Common Sense”: The Case Against Out Of Control Government..Inspired by Thomas Paine 1776 Common Sense.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee won’t get the nominee in 2012. They are done! If they do get the nominee, we will lose the election in 2012. They are not conservative. The conservatives will stay at home and not vote for Huckabee and Romney. Huckabee was the Governor of Arkansas and he raised taxes. Romney is a liberal Republican and he has taken advantage of the conservatives to try to get electing. That why he he lost the 2008 primary election. I am stil undedcided about Palin. The problem with Palin, she quit as the Governor of Alaska in July and didn’t finished out her term. My friend has told me she isn’t support Palin because we are not ready for a woman to be a President. I am glad the Republican Party won in Virginia and New Jersey last night.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:46 am
CA 10 went GOP! How’s that happen? I’m thrilled that it went GOP! It’ is proving several things.
#1. Meg Whitman could be the next gov there
#2. When certain celebpoliticans keep out, we can win on our own
November 4th, 2009 at 7:47 am
Anon. LOL.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:07 am
It is a small moral victory that Queen Dede was forced out of the race in disagrace and at least Mr. Owens received. less than 50%. However, it is a shame that NY-23 was a few votes short of teaching those 4 jokers a full lesson. > Mr. Romney, Mr. Huckabee and Mr. Gingrich may be looking pretty because they were all sort of on the winning side last night, but some of won’t forget that when these three characters had that chance, they took the safe way and failed to stand with the people.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Teaching what lesson, Ohio? That’s it’s OK to lie about a candidate? That it’s OK to distort and tear down personally a candidate? Or that it’s OK to be a carpetbagger? Hoffman lost at least one vote – his. He could not even vote in his own race.
Unless we do better as a party, we can’t complain about the other sides tatics, as it appears we were using them ourselves. When they had the chance, they took the road less traveled. They did not jump on the fairy princess bandwagon of mee too’s. At least Huckabee waited until the end to jump on.
the positive spin is that Owens is a conservative democrate.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:17 am
Irv, I agree. It’s time for whoever is doing her facebooking to close the book and stop trying to hard. Her followers would follow her off the side of a cliff. And it appears that happened yesterday. Please notice that the races she was specially asked to keep out of won. She tried to insert herself with ther robo call, to the GOP’s horror. They wanted to win, and thankfully they did. CA 10 was the biggest bell weather. and the GOP won it.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:18 am
I agree that Palin is a loser in this one…for 2 days anyway but I don’t see how Romney is a winner…oh that’s right he played both side of the fence.
Don’t fret Ohio, Dede was such a horrible candidate that she couldn’t even do the right thing and endorse Hoffman. She would’ve been a horrible representative for our caucus.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:21 am
#40 – Yes, to a degree, this was a referendum on Palin. In a poll a few days ago, only 29% of those polled believed she waqs qualified to be President. In a poll a few months ago, only 22% overall and 33% of republicans believed she would be an ‘effective’ president. People follow her at the country’s peril.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:36 am
“At least Huckabee waited until the end to jump on.”
Yeah, Knickers, as disgusting as Mr. Huckabee was, at least he did get it right before the very end. Unlike your guy, who failed to oppose the tax and spend liberals.
“the positive spin is that Owens is a conservative democrate.” But one does not have to be that Conservative to be to the right of a RINO extremist.
“CA 10 was the biggest bell weather. and the GOP won it.” Ah no, CA-10, may have been a moral victory for the GOP, but I do not see how you can claim the GOP won in CA-10 when the Dems won 53%. Simple math dictates that the GOP cannot beat 53%. Is it any wonder that a few people around here are not fiscal wizards?
November 4th, 2009 at 8:53 am
So, you want republicans attacking republicans? Who side are you on? Yes, Deed was a bad candidate, but remember Reagans 11th
commandment, thou shall not attack fellow Republicans. If you can not endorse your fellow republican, then the best
thing is stay out of the Mix. Palin was wrong to get involved in this race. Had she and other stayed out, Pelosi would not
have another vote in her caucus today.
As for Huckabee, I don’t have a quarrel in the way he handle himself. Romney did the right thing by staying
away from this mess created by the NY Republicans.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:54 am
MY guy stayed out of it and came up smelling like a rose. Unlike the stench comeing from the Ice Queen from the North. He is trying to hold the party together, while others are trying to tear it apart for their own cornorations.
And I am wrong on CA. I was reading it on another site. It appears CA 10 went to John G, but Alamdea County went to Harmer.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:55 am
by only 3 percent, and not enough to win the whole tamale. I was wrong on that one. But not as wrong as the Ice queen was with her NY 23!
November 4th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Mitt saw the danger in supporting third party candidates and encouraging its usage in the future. There is an old saying, “Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread”. Mitt foresaw that there was a good chance that outsiders jumping on the third party band wagon could hurt us in both the short term an long term. Third party candidates are the one thing I fear most as we move forward toward 2012. Even though I liked Hoffman better ideologically than Scozzafava, I think the bigger problem was causing those prone to promote third parties to the Republican’s peril to continue moving in that direction. I hope people learned something from this, but I doubt if they did.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Huck jumped on the train. At least he waited to the end. I give him credit for holding out, not not credit for jumping on.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Conserv. I doubt they learned anything either.
I think Mitt saw the split coming down the pike, and did not want to get involved in any side. Should Hoffman had won The party would have started to fracture and split into two camps. Palin’s camp and the GOP. The power was removed last night, and now we can get back to rebuilding the party.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:04 am
You guys are clearly delusional. There was only one clear winner last night: me.
That’s right: I won. Everything I have ever believed was vindicated. All my foes were vanquished.
If there’s anything I regret, it’s my excessive humility and generosity. I promise to continue working on those negligible shortcomings.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:15 am
“I hope people learned something from this, but I doubt if they did.” Well, I learned that so-called Moderates cannote be trusted! It is interesting that Queen Dede endorsed her fellow tax and spend liberal; Lincoln Chafee and company anyone?
Say Knickers, you are off by a little more than 3 points BTW, while the Dems in CA-10 only got 53%, the GOP received 43%, 4% went to others.
Haha, well MarkG, I am glad that you were a clear winner yesterday.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:15 am
#7
“Tonight was the perfect night.”
I am sure you are delighted that the conservative lost in NY-23, since you hoped for it last weekend. You think in some benighted way that it helps Romney and hurts Palin. What you, and your hero, fail to understand is that standing for principle
November 4th, 2009 at 9:15 am
What? Did Huckabee endorse Hoffman at the last minute? If so, he blew it, and does not deserve the credit he’s getting in this post.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:18 am
“What? Did Huckabee endorse Hoffman at the last minute? If so, he blew it, and does not deserve the credit he’s getting in this post.” Where have you been Martha? Your new friend Mr. Gingrich also converted back to the light just before Mr. Huckabee did.
Let me get this straight Martha, you supported the Dem over the Conservative even though the GOP withdrew from the race in digrace?
November 4th, 2009 at 9:19 am
39. Sheesh. Palin quoting Reagan again, imagine that.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Ha!, BTW Martha, maybe for different reasons, but I agree with you Martha that Mr. Huckabee does not deserve a whole lot of credit.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:22 am
63. I know what Gingrich did, but I didn’t know Huck caved. Huck and Pawlenty look like followers on this one. Romney looks like the single leader with a head on his shoulders and the proper short and long-term perspective.
I’m glad both Hoffman and Dede are out. Maybe NY23 will get it right in the primary next year.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:24 am
One thing is for sure, the MWM are going to push the divide between the Palin faction, and the rest of the party. This just gives them fresh material.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:26 am
63. No OJ. I did not support the democrat. But after the fiasco, I think it would have been better to have Hoffman in there, rather than Owens.
I’ve never supported a democrat in my life.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:27 am
#7
“Tonight was the perfect night.”
I am sure you are delighted that the conservative lost in NY-23, since you hoped for it last weekend. You think in some benighted way that it helps Romney and hurts Palin. What you, and your hero, fail to understand is that standing for principle is always the right thing to do, even if you do not succeed. Amazingly, Palin brings this guy from nowhere, single digits two weeks ago wo within 4 in spite of the fact that the RINO stayed on the ballot. Mitt, true to form, ducked the fight. And you think Pain is the biggest individual loser. WOW.
Romney follows the same RINO playbook as his father did, in 1964. From George Romney’s biography about his actions at and after the 1964 convention:
“As the convention concluded, Romney neither endorsed nor repudiated Goldwater and vice presidential nominee William E. Miller, saying he had reservations about Goldwater regarding both civil rights and political extremism. For the fall elections, Romney cut himself off from the national ticket, refusing to even appear on the same stage with them.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney
Romney went on to crash and burn in 1968, dropping out before New Hampshire. The guy who stuck with Goldwater through the bitter defeat went on to become the 40th President of the United States.
In the case of Mitt, the fruit did not fall far from the tree. He will have approximately the same success that his daddy had, having demonstrated the same level of principle and intestinal fortitude.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:29 am
“That’s it’s OK to lie about a candidate? That it’s OK to distort and tear down personally a candidate?”
Knickers, who lied about a candidate? Dede Scozzafava was (and is) a pretty liberal politician, and prone to calling the police on reporters who dare ask her questions she doesn’t like. None of that is a lie or distortion, and none of that is a personal attack. The voters let her know that’s not what they wanted from their Representative by abandoning her in the waning days of the election.
You’re right about Doug Hoffman, however. He didn’t know local issues, and wasn’t a resident to boot. Had there been a primary, doubtless he wouldn’t have gotten the nomination. He was a poor choice, and only did as well as he did by riding an anti-Scozzafava wave. That simply won’t be enough to carry the day in 2010 and 2012. Lesson to learn? Give the voters an option, don’t try to force one on them!
November 4th, 2009 at 9:29 am
69. That’s some pretty heavy duty spin there, Zebra. LOL
November 4th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Hurray for the big smack down on Palin, Rush, Beck and Hannity.
Let’s see, since quitting as Governor, has Palin been knocking them out of the park? Death panels, oops they’re back. Hoffman lost the election. 0-2 so far for Crazy Pants. Note to Pawlenty, please don’t follow Crazy Pants off the cliff again.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:31 am
“I’ve never supported a democrat in my life.” That may be true Martha, but even though people like you never officially supported Mr. Owens, let’s just say I find it interesting that some of you take joy in seeing the Conservative lose, but hey.
“Maybe NY23 will get it right in the primary next year.”
Wow, the world is upside down, we agree on something, I just find it a bloody shame that the chairmen would not allow for an open primary this time.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:32 am
70. It appeared to me that Knickers did more homework on Hoffman than most people here. That might be the problem. Everyone jumped in before they knew enough about him, He had issues that were likely part of the reason he did not get chosen in the first place.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:33 am
73. Yes, I asbolutely take joy is seeing this temporary setback for conservatitism. The whole thing in NY was a fiasso and did not need to happen.
The way to build more support for the conservative movement is not to go third party.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:34 am
60. She was tossed overboard by the GOP’s. She was a woman scorned. Even Palin knows a bit about being scorned.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Zebra and OHIO
Palin lost yesterday. Don’t take out on us.
I ask you a question. You seem to consider it unprincipled to refuse to jump onto a bandwagon, knowing full well that there would be claims that you were just playing it safe. Would it not have been “safer” to join all the all people on that bandwagon?
As Dumbledore said, It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Actually Mitt’s dad was winning in 68 before his Vietnam comments.
You don’t think it would have maybe been a bit better for us if he’d won as opposed to Trick Dicky (who ironicially would have been far too moderate for the likes of most of you and Beck/Palin et all back then).
November 4th, 2009 at 9:40 am
75 – there is nothing wrong with conservatism.
But there is a lot wrong with dumb conservatives like Hoffman and Palin.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:41 am
“Death panels, oops they’re back.” Which is it. Are you happy that they are supposedly back or are you going on record that the Dems are going to successfully pass socialized medicine through Congress with death panels in tact?
“Note to Pawlenty, please don’t follow Crazy Pants off the cliff again.” At least he is a man of principle and a man for the people unlike a few other people running for President. Mr. Hoffman may have lost by a few points, but at least he got a few more votes than Queen (less than 10%) Dede.
Funny how the Romneyites are against talk radio this year. I guess they forget how talk radio delivered a few delegates the their camp last year. Have fun flying solo Mr. Romney!
November 4th, 2009 at 9:42 am
The website was a lie about her. the ads ran against her by Hoffman. and I don’t know if this occured to you, but she was elected many times AS A REPUBLICAN! She was a center moderate. Hoffman pledged his support to her after the GOP did not choose him. Then, being the backstabber he is, ran as an indy. Thankfully, he lost. I would have rather kept this seat in the GOP column, but the outcome to keep our party intact is a good bennie.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Yes, Ohio Joe, I think we all agree that it would have been better to have had a primary. Instead, local leaders put up someone they thought could win….it backfired for them and for us that would prefer a more conservative candidate.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:43 am
The main lesson from NY-23 is this: Republicans need conservatives. Conservatives need Republicans. Without each other, both will lose.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:45 am
OJ, we follow them when they aren’t trying to divide our party with third party rhetoric.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:45 am
80. I’m not against talk radio, OJ. They have a role, which I appreciate. But they have gotten ugly lately, and a little obnoxious.
I mean really. Rush accounces that Palin is ready to be POTUS to Chris Wallace. He is boycotting everything Romney says and does and refusing the even acknowledge him. That is not smart, nor the way to get this party on track.
Some of these guys need to get their heads screwed back on straight again.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Next year, there will be a primary. Hoffman can toss his hat in the ring then as a GOP -or they can choose someone else. What if dede ran again in the primary and won? Then what? Do we again try to run a third party because we, outside that district, did not like the outcome? Dirty tricks are for the other team. We need to rise above. If we lose because we played fair, we lost because we played fair.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Absolutely Jonathan!!!
November 4th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Ohio Joe, I’ve been too busy to be on here, but I just checked in to get the election scuttlebutt.
I must say that I’m a little disappointed to find everybody fighting over NY-23.
I’ll just offer my perspective and then let everybody get back to having at it.
I’m a religious man and I’ve even served a religious mission full-time in a foreign county. I believe obeying the commandments of Christ is a morale issue and a matter of principle.
Do I reject the cooperation of anybody in the cause of Christ if they don’t have all the commandments down pat?
With the exception of a few obvious grievous sins, I’ve come to understand that everybody is better off when we embrace sinners (keep in mind we are all sinners) who are trying rather then throwing them under the bus because they are not good enough (as if we are so hot ourselves).
This Conservative GOP against Moderate GOP meme reminds me of this. To me it appears that the Conservative GOP is starting act like the uppity old bitties at church who drive away all the “undesirables” as a matter of principle and then complain when the pews are empty on Sunday and that “hoodlums” are overrunning the neighborhood and pushing them out.
If the Conservative GOP cannot recognize that a person leaning toward their point of view is more cooperative than a person leaning away from their point of view, then the voting booths (pews) for Republicans will be empty and the hoodlums (liberals) will take over the neighborhood.
No, we are no all like Mother Teresa, but does that mean we should be banned from the church and all activities of good works it promotes?
And as a side note, isn’t it interesting that those “old bitties” always have their own problems that everyone else but themselves can see?
Maybe everyone on Team GOP would win a lot more games if it really played like a team…..imperfections not withstanding……….
November 4th, 2009 at 9:48 am
“As Dumbledore said, It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends.” Well ironically, there is some truth in that. MarK, it is all fine and well that Mr. Hoffman and Mrs. Palin may be politically finished, because of NY-23, but I for one am not going to be so quite to simply foregive my friends (to use that term.) If need be I will become a Pawlentyite, but until some socks get pulled up, that is as far as I go with my money. I can vote for M & M in the ballot box in 2012 to defeat Mr. Obama, but I am not throwing my money down a rat hole.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:49 am
OJ, death panels are back in the bill. AND the bill is likely to pass. Palin’s firebomb did nothing to stop anything. In fact, I would daresay that her over the top rhetoric undermined the credibility of the movement that was really doing the work (the people at the townhalls).
I sure do like Pawlenty, but he most definitely followed Palin’s insane charge. And he did it after pressure from Erickson to follow Crazy Pants. That is not leadership on Pawlenty’s part.
Oh and OJ, I am sure glad that Dede didn’t win. She was a completely unacceptable candidate. I have never spoken in favor of her. In fact I never chimed in on this race.
I view this race as a referendum on Palin and the talking heads.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Knickers,
“Teaching what lesson, Ohio? That’s it’s OK to lie about a candidate? That it’s OK to distort and tear down personally a candidate? ”
Did you really just write that?
Seriously?
November 4th, 2009 at 9:50 am
“What if dede ran again in the primary and won? Then what? Do we again try to run a third party because we, outside that district, did not like the outcome?”
That will depend on what Palin does. Whatever she does is always right.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:53 am
OHIO,
You’re taking it too hard.
Palin got put down a peg or two, that’s all. I am watching to see how she reacts to it. Here is an opportunity to see what she is really made of. If she learns by it, she’ll come back even better. If not, she will end up on the ash-heap of history. I am hoping for the former, aren’t you?
“Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves back up.” Thomas Wayne…Father of Batman
November 4th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Regarding the FPP:
I mostly agree, except I honestly don’t see this as much of a problem for either Palin or Pawlenty. Pawlenty, for the reasons Matthew gave above, but even Palin too. As I said repeatedly before, no one will care about this race in 2 weeks (or less). Health Care is now back on the menu.
But I honestly don’t see the big hubbub. They backed the conservative over the Republican. The conservative lost. So what? You can’t win them all.
But I do agree with Jonathon’s point. Conservatives need the Republican party, and vice versa. This was simply a very odd situation where the Republican party abadoned conservatives, so conservatives returned the favor.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:54 am
#86:
“What if Dede ran in the primary and won?”
Then it would be the duty of all good Republicans to support her. This whole race really was unfair to the people of the 23rd district of New York. Instead of getting candidates to focus on the local issues important to them, this election became a famil feud within the GOP.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Oh, one other observation on Palin. She quit the governorship in Alaska because she couldn’t handle the heat in her home state and thought she would do better in the lower 48. Since then she was told to stay out of the campaigning in VA and NJ. And when she does get into a race in NY 23 she runs the race straight to the democrat win. I guess that the lower 48 doesn’t really want her either.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Good catch, History Major.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Of the big endorsers, I would actually put Gingrich as the biggest loser. Not only did he stick his thumb in the movement’s eye, but the candidate he stuck his neck out for got smashed, after dropping out and endorseing the Democrat.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Really, and since when have Romney supporters been against talk radio? And where did you get that idea?
Although I do acknowledge that I don’t let anyone do my thinker for me including Talk radio pundits, It
doesn’t mean I have anything against them.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:58 am
DanL,
Good to see you. Hasn’t it been a while?
November 4th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Thanks MWS, it’s been a couple of months I think.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Thunder,
“Really, and since when have Romney supporters been against talk radio? And where did you get that idea?”
See Heath and Martha, #5 and 6.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Hey, I’m not the GOP/conservative machine. I’m not even rich enough to sponsor an ad. I’m just one voter, one voice. Nothing I have said has been a lie, but proven time and time and time again.
Geeze.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:00 am
MWS.
I am not holding NY-23 against Pawlenty…much. He made the mistake of following Palin onto the bandwagon attacking the Republican. It was a newbie mistake. Still plenty of time to make course corrections.
Did you see yesterday where he hemmed and hawed for about five minutes, not wanting to say anything good or bad about Olympia Snowe? It would appear he is already learning. Good for him.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Thunder, OJ is talking about me since I don’t like Beck, Rush or Hannity and have said so in the past.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:01 am
“That will depend on what Palin does. Whatever she does is always right.” Haha, if Dede runs in an open and fair primary and wins, I will not take any joy, but I will at least accept the results.
No DanL, you for one did promote our GOP candidate in NY-23, but to use MarK’s terms, some of our Friends around here kind of did. I know that most of our freinds are not exactly kissing cousins with the person that 4 back room gansters put in there, but I am still not happy that many did not stand up to them. I do take some small comfort that at least many NY23ers did have the courage to revolt against this under-handedness, and I am glad that we still have the ballot box in this country (one of my favorite this about this great land.) In many places in the world, NY23ers would have been rounded up and put in jail or at least thrown out of the party. As sad as I am, I am thankful to GOD that at least we can carry on the fight through the ballot box.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:03 am
marK,
No, I missed that appearance. I do think that if the ’12 Primary is going to be a “movement” vs. “establishment” race, it will be very interesting to see if Pawlenty takes a side, or if he tries to bridge the gap. I think bridging the gap would be a natural course (especially since he is so unobjectionable to so many), but on the other hand, the luke warm tend to get spit out…..
November 4th, 2009 at 10:05 am
OJ, yes it was underhanded that the LOCAL party bosses in NY-23 put Dede in as their candidate. But it was also underhanded that Palin and company intervened in a campaign in which none of them had any knowledge of the local issues to back a carpetbagger who also didn’t know anything about the local issues. I really think that a lot of stalwart Republicans in NY-23 voted for Owens to spite Palin, Rush, Beck, Hannity and company for their meddling.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:05 am
“Thunder, OJ is talking about me since I don’t like Beck, Rush or Hannity and have said so in the past.
” With respect DanL, you are not the only one to throw talk radio under the bus (if you pardon that term.)
November 4th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Knickers,
If you want to start moralizing about lying and personal attacks, you might want to start writing under a new moniker. Sort of wipe the slate clean….
November 4th, 2009 at 10:09 am
102. I probably love Rush more than anyone here, MWS. I’ve got nothing against them, and I’ve given talk radio deserved credit for years and years. They are very important to us. But they have been playing it wrong a lot lately. So yes, I like this slap-down.
Since Palin came around, a lot of them are allowing their emotions to take over their reason. I can also do without the arrogance.
Pawlenty looked like a follower, sadly. I agree with you that it probably won’t matter all that much, except among possible backers with money and influence. They are going to need to see some solid leadership to counter this mistake.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:09 am
#108:
It is sort of the reverse of what is going on down here in Florida. Republicans in the state were mad as hell when all the D.C. types threw their support behind Charlie Crist and tried to clear the fleid for him. It’s part of the reason why Marco Rubio is doing so well; Florida’s Republican voters want a chance to decide this race for ourselves and not have outsiders ram a candidate down our throat.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:09 am
#81 “The website was a lie about her. the ads ran against her by Hoffman. and I don’t know if this occured to you, but she was elected many times AS A REPUBLICAN! She was a center moderate. Hoffman pledged his support to her after the GOP did not choose him. Then, being the backstabber he is, ran as an indy.”
Ok, WHAT website and WHICH ads are you talking about (if it’s voluminous, just summarize for me; I’ll do my best to trust what you tell me)? As for a history of being elected as a Republican, that tells me nothing about her core beliefs. As for being a “center moderate,” this has been debated ad nauseum. I have asked for, and never received, a voting record that shows she’s a moderate. I’ve seen promises she’d be a moderate, but I don’t trust what she says, based on her supporters and her prior statements on the issues. As for Doug H going back on a pledge of support, so what? That tells me NOTHING about Dede S, and I’ve already commented repeatedly that Doug H wasn’t a very good candidate, either. Both the establishment and the base failed with those picks.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:10 am
MWS.#98,
I am in full agreement on that. Newt played this hand the worse of any national figure.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Dan, I agree that many were turned off by the outsiders jumping into their election. Electing congress folks often comes down to local issues. If you don’t even live in the district, how can you even have a handle on the local issues? At the congress level, folks like to elect someone they can touch and feel. Not someone living in a lofty home looking down on them. Hoffman was not the GOP candidate and was not chosen by the GOP party ‘bosses’ (11 of them, I think). His hat was in the ring, but they did not choose him.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:12 am
110. Knickers doesn’t lie. Last night Richard sent me an email where knickers had supposedly lied. There was no proof whatsoever.
I think it’s ironic that a lot of posters are always up in arms about knickers comments, yet they fail to see how their own comments about her and to her are any different. Knickers doesn’t insult any other poster here, yet they all feel free to insult her.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Jonathan,
Good point in #112, except the voter’s of NY-23 didn’t get a choice until the general election. Hoffman gave them that choice. At least the voters of Florida will get to pick their man.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:16 am
#117:
And we are very happy to have the choice. The RNC should encourage every state GOP to hold primaries for elections, not have county GOP chairmen make the pick. That way this mess will never happen again.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:16 am
110. MWS,
“If you want to start moralizing about lying and personal attacks, you might want to start writing under a new moniker”.
Good advice. I would love to see you stop lying and personally attacking me.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Martha, let’s clear up a few things about that email. First, I said at the top of it that I wasn’t calling it a lie, that others were. Second, the email shows, conclusively, that Knickers claims to have more support for a particular rumor than the NE. As no further information has ever come forth, others called it a lie. Conclusive? No, but not “no proof whatsoever.”
“I think it’s ironic that a lot of posters are always up in arms about knickers comments, yet they fail to see how their own comments about her and to her are any different. Knickers doesn’t insult any other poster here, yet they all feel free to insult her.”
Martha, you still haven’t responded to Knickers calling anyone SUPPORTED by the “hard right” (whatever that means) to be a bigot, a devil, and a brownshirt (Nazi). How is that NOT an insult?
November 4th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Jonathan,
Agreed.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:20 am
This ROCKS!!!! I had hoped the Repubs would have wins in NJ and Virginia but would lose NY for butting in. It feels so good when you have a wish and it comes true perfectly!
Romney 2012!
November 4th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Martha.#116:“Knickers doesn’t insult any other poster here.”
LOL
Oh, Martha. I insult other posters here. We all do it. To say otherwise is just plain silly.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:26 am
I find it funny that a few people think that Mr. Hoffman is a carpetbagging nut. About 46% of NY23ers did not exactly think so. Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that Mr. Hoffman in a born and raised up-state New Yorker, it is not like he migrated from the Moon or even Ohio (or some other state.) While my county is all in one district, some of my surrounging counties are split into different districts. Frankly, if I were represented by a fellow who live outside the district, but in the opposite side of the county or across the county line, I would not exactly think of him as a carpetbagger. Carpetbaggers are clowns who come from out of state and complain that the door-ways of our polling stations are a few inches too small.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:26 am
What personal attacks? Palin is not qualifed. she’s not qualified for a number of reasons, personal and political. She left the city of wassilla mired in debt, she quit the governers job when the it got to hard for her. Dede was attacked from our team. I’ve never put up a false ad about Palin, and have never said anything false about her. I don’t hate her. I just don’t respect her. And it might not be just me anymore.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:28 am
120. Yes, it was an insult. I never said it wasn’t, but tried to put it into context.
Richard, you did say that knickers lied yesterday. (I can link if you want me to.) MWS, Bob and you all insisted knickers lies. She doesn’t. She promised to send another link to some proof, but didn’t. That’s just stretching, to call her an outright liar over this, because the insinuation is that she lies all the time – but she doesn’t! You may not like what she says, but don’t lie about her by calling her a liar ~!
I just wish everyone would take some of their own medicine around here. It’s fine for everyone to jump all ove knickers, but she can’t jump all over the candidates? She never makes this personal with other posters, yet they make no bones about dispising her. Hypocritical, to say the least.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:28 am
116. thanks for the back up! I appreciate it! I noticed serveral on here much more rabid than me. But I’m a girl, so I must be the easy target.
But this gal is the mother of 7. I can take it!
November 4th, 2009 at 10:29 am
123. Point taken, but do you see her go after other posters on a regular basis? I can’t recall when she has, and I just don’t think she does it very often, certainly not as often as everyone does it about her.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:29 am
“Jonathan,
Good point in #112, except the voter’s of NY-23 didn’t get a choice until the general election. Hoffman gave them that choice. At least the voters of Florida will get to pick their man.”
Thank Jonathan and MWS. I am glad that a few people are still thankful that we live in a democratic Republic (haha, pardon the term.)
November 4th, 2009 at 10:31 am
I sent the link to the policlo . I sent the link to the huff post. I guess that was not enough, so I ‘lied’ in their views. Ok fine. You see what you want to see, I see what I see. Need to go now though. I do have a responsiblity as a mom and need to get the kiddies off to school with the lunches I packed. (soup in thermos, sandwiches and an apple and small bottle of water). Oh, and I have 2 home with the flu. Should be a fun, fun day!
November 4th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Martha, remind me never to send you an e-mail. What Richard said to you in a personal e-mail is between you and him and it is not fair of you to air this publically without permission. I say all kinds of stuff on this site, but I do not recall sharing an e-mail which I have received from somebody on this site and the people who have received e-mails from me have also been nice enough not too share my personal business publicly.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:33 am
126 I sent 2 links. Not enough for some, but you know, I don’t have as much time on my hands as others appear to. I guess I could have posted it on facebook, but I use that to keep in touch with my family and friends, not make political hay.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Jonathon, I have best wishes for Rubio. I hope that the majority nominate the right man in your primary.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:39 am
OT note for Matthew Miller. Could you wait until next week sometime to post a review of the new Wheel of Time book?
I am a little over 300 pages through it, but won’t finish it before the weekend.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:39 am
131. OJ, they were sharing personal info from an email about Knickers yesterday, insisting that she lies, when she doesn’t. I’m pretty sure I didn’t reveal anything Richard wouldn’t want me to say. (If so, I apologize, to you Richard. I should have emailed you back this morning before I mentioned it here.)
Richard’s email was very friendly, and I think Richard is one of the most reasonable and fair posters here. He is always fair and concilatory with me, which I greatly appreciate.
I just feel the need to defend Knickers from the lying accusations.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:41 am
If the GOP wish to win, the midterm elections in 2010 as well as beyond, let the moderate Gop prevail, instead of
the conservative plank of the party,to insure a much bigger tent to accomodate the independents and moderate Dems
which pretty much determine thhe outcome of an election nationally. Palin and the extreme right as well as Newt
Gingrich and the rigid idealogues cannot prevail, if they insist on staying in such a narrow corner.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:44 am
McDonnell should be thankful that $arah palin, with an ego the size of NY and her robo calls, didn’t cause him to bleed Independents, whom he has done very well with.
http://wonkette.com/411952/palin-campaigns-for-mcdonnell-in-secret-roguish-manner-mcdonnell-terrified
McDonnell 54.7%
Deeds 41.0%
Palin Campaigns For McDonnell In Secret Roguish Manner, McDonnell Terrified 2009
2009 ELECTION EVE
“See what’s going on above? That would be Bob McDonnell crushing the dickens out of Creigh Deeds, in Virginia. Fine, go ahead, win tomorrow, anything to get these dreadful four-per-commercial-break ads (“I will fix the roads” “No I will fix the roads” “You hate women” “I will fix the women and roads,” etc. ) off the air. And how has McDonnell built up such a lead? By not accepting any of Sarah Palin’s offers to campaign with him, for one! This will not stop egomaniacal Sarah Palin from secretly campaigning for McDonnell through a third party, however. Just Sarah bein’ Sarah!
PALIN: McDonnell says what? WHAT? In that case, you, Ralph Reed, put me on the robot telephone to Virginia, post-haste!
Republican Bob McDonnell kept his distance from Sarah Palin on Monday even as the former Alaska governor had begun making automated phone calls to more than 300,000 Virginia households on behalf of a conservative group, urging them to vote their values in Tuesday’s election.
“I don’t know anything about them,” McDonnell told ABC News on Monday when asked about the Palin robocalls which are paid for by the Virginia chapter of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, a socially conservative group headed at the national level by Ralph Reed, the former head of the Christian Coalition. Then again, it’s not clear that Palin’s robocall supports anyone, what with the lack of naming any names in her endorsement of, uhh… the Sarah Palin for Virginia campaign?
Virginia, hello, this is Sarah Palin calling to urge you to go to the polls Tuesday and vote to share our principles. The eyes of America will be on Virginia and make no mistake about it, every vote counts. So don’t take anything for granted, vote your values on Tuesday, and urge your friends and family to vote, too.
The audio is super awesomer — just a cacophony of fuzz and hiss and screeching and terror.
And don’t forget to buy my book!”
November 4th, 2009 at 10:52 am
“Ohio Joe, I’ve been too busy to be on here, but I just checked in to get the election scuttlebutt.
” Just to let you know Jerald, I have read your comments (as well as the comments of others.) Well, I do feel rather passionate (rightly or wrongly) about NY-23 and I guess I am in not as a forgiving mood as perhaps I should be. Frankly, I wish to see how the cookie crumbles a bit and then see how to proceed if you will. I am not happy one bit with the party, but I guess that might not solve anything.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Martha, I never said Knickers lied. Please post the link. If it’s to comment #56 on my thread yesterday, however, I suggest you reread it before linking. I said that Knickers promised to provide additional information beyond what I was sent in that email, which didn’t happen despite three followup emails. I did NOT call her a liar.
Knickers, the question is whether you would send the additional information you said you had, not whether you provided more than one link in the email. I will also share that in the email I sent Martha, I noted that you seemed much more reasonable via email than I think you come off as here. I’ll also note that #125 doesn’t have ANY kind of reference to Gov Palin that I’d consider mean or personal. If you kept the discussion in that vein, nobody would be justified in being upset with you.
OJ, there wasn’t anything personal in either Knickers’ email to me or my email to Martha. I wouldn’t care if she copy-pasted the entire thing and put it all over the place. If someone potentially stepped over the line with this one, it was me for sending it to Martha without asking Knickers first.
#132 Knickers, the links were either opinion pieces (with no substantiation noted) or based of the NE, as was evident through reading them (which I did). That makes it a single-source story from a source who’s known for questionable stories.
#134 Wheel of Time? The 11th(?) book is out, then? Does the style differ in any way from the others?
November 4th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Matt,
Watch the clips I posted in the link below. It appears T-Paw is prepared to pursue the unnatural course of bridge burning, not building within his own party. If Pawlenty seriously can’t support Snowe’s inclusion in the GOP, he may well succeed in ingratiating himself with ultraconservative Iowan caucusgoers, but will sooner pay a painful price in the press for resorting to such shameless pandering.
http://race42008.com/2009/11/04/winners-and-losers-new-york-23/#comment-623740
November 4th, 2009 at 11:13 am
139. Richard,
When you said, “yes, she did” (lie) I took that at face value, I guess. Your point is that she promised to sen more info, from a reputable source, not just NE, is that right? Her point is that she said she sent something from politico, and the huff post. We can argue whether or not those are realiable sources. (I didn’t open the attachment you sent, because my husband is reformatting our computer, and I didn’t want to download it yet.)
Anyway, we’ll just have to agree to disagree as we often do.
One more thing, though. In #56 from yesteday, you seemed to believe that I claim the ONLY reason people didn’t vote for Romney was because of his faith. I don’t believe that, and I don’t think I’ve given the impression that I do. I believe it was a factor, and I think that’s what I’ve always tried to make clear.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Shelby,
LOL!!
November 4th, 2009 at 11:23 am
“OJ, there wasn’t anything personal in either Knickers’ email to me or my email to Martha. I wouldn’t care if she copy-pasted the entire thing and put it all over the place. If someone potentially stepped over the line with this one, it was me for sending it to Martha without asking Knickers first.” I thus apoligize to you Martha with regards to this e-mail incident.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Sarah Palin’s Purity Problem
She unleashed the hounds in the Battle of NY-23. Now will she stay ahead of the pack or be trampled?
By David Corn
November 4th, 2009 at 11:38 am
I said it before the election and I will say it again. The two guys who were right in the NY-23 rd were Romney and Huckabee. They both stayed out of it. Huckabee did endorse Hoffman after Dede dropped out and did what he could to try and help salvage the mess that was created by others, however they both were right by staying out of it.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:45 am
While I’m not the biggest fan of Sarah Palin, it’s to early to say if she actually was a big loser Tuesday night. Yes, she sure suffers from a bad case of narcissism, but she actually has scored some victories against the Obama health care bill, which now seems unlikely to pass this year, in part due to Palin. She basically KO’d Obama on that one. And she was also successful in stoping Cap and Trade legislation from passing the Senate. Having said all that I would never vote for her for president, and instead would consider a Mitt Romney or possibly Tim Pawlenty.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Hoffman, Baby, Hoffman?!
What conservatives just don’t get about NY-23′s message
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/11/04/2118821.aspx
November 4th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
You guys are missing the point re Palin since Scozzafava supporting the Dem PROVES PALIN DID THE RIGHT THING! (win or lose)
November 4th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
The fact that Ms. Scozzafava backed the Dems may have proved that Mrs. Palin did the right thing, but the bigger lesson is that liberal moderates in our party cannot be trusted. People can jump up and down and say that Conservatives are Conservatives first and Republicans second. However, Liberal Republicans have also shown that they are Liberals first and Republicans second.
November 4th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Weren’t Independents a huge factor in all the elections last night? (as well as in most general elections) We simply don’t have enough Republicans to win without the help of Independents. If scientific evidence continues to show that “life begins at conception” and is actually taught; voters will continue to “lean conservative”.
A young Republican on another site said, “I think a big lesson for social conservatives out of all this is the importance of nominating conservatives with a solid record on social issues who are willing and able to run their campaigns on the issues that matter to voters at the time. This is exactly why Bob McDonnell won.”
I think there is some truth to his analysis. I know one of the reason’s I chose Huckabee over some of the other candidates is because I KNOW Huckabee won’t change his mind on the “social issues” if polls swing the other way. He is also an advocate of racial equality. (which could help greatly to win back some black votes for the GOP.
Huckabee supports the Fair Tax because he believes it is wrong to penalize productivity. I know numerous people on this site didn’t like him using tax dollars to improve roads and schools in Arkansas. But, those tax dollars were actually making some of the former welfare recipients to actually have to work for their paychecks instead of just getting government handouts. (
Getting people off the welfare lines is also why:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
#141 “When you said, “yes, she did” (lie) I took that at face value, I guess. Your point is that she promised to sen more info, from a reputable source, not just NE, is that right? Her point is that she said she sent something from politico, and the huff post.”
Martha, you’re missing the point. Knickers said she had more info beyond what she sent in the email (which included the other links mentioned). It wasn’t sent. It’s not a question of whether she only had one source or not (which is debatable, but not the issue at hand). I won’t call that a lie, but others have.
Further, you admit Knickers has said some insulting things, but you still say she doesn’t insult people? It seems likea contradiction, and I don’t get it. As for the entire LDS issue, I can say that it seems like you list it as the only reason from this end. I trust you when you say that’s not what you meant, but I can see why others would think otherwise.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
First Thoughts: Last Night’s Lesssons
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/11/04/2118659.aspx
November 4th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Rush Limbaugh is blaming Gingrich and other Republicans for the Hoffman loss in NY-23. He says they stayed with Scozzafava too long, and that if Republicans had gotten behind Hoffman sooner, he would have won.
This group hasn’t learned anything. A right wing conservative is not gonna win in a left wing moderate Congressional District.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Richard,
Then what did you mean when you said “yes she did”? I thought it was in response to my previous post where I said she didn’t lie.
Anyway, fair enough. I think it’s a stretch to call her a liar, which is what Bob and MWS were doing yesterday – with no real evidence.
Yes, knickers has said some insulting things in general, but not to specific people here at race. She reserves her criticisms to Palin, Huck, and those who are divisive in the GOP (who she was likely referring to with the quote).
Richard, I’ve said over and over that I don’t think the only reason Romney lost was bigotry. I think if you were to go back and review all of my comments, you would see that I’ve never said it was the only reason. I’ve actually gone out of my way to make it clear that only some people used his faith against him. I’ve reminded people that Romney got a healthy % of the Evangelical vote.
I know very well, and have always admitted that there were other fair reasons to opposed him. My beef is with the people who went after his religion, but I’ve never said everyone did that. I’m sorry if you or others get any other idea from my posts.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
New gay rights law being approved by voters
Measure expands rights of same-sex domestic partners
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411801_gayrights03.html
Expanded Medical Marijuana Law Approved
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=110741&catid=2
Sticky bud, green energy get nod from Colorado ski-country voters
http://coloradoindependent.com/41483/sticky-bud-green-energy-get-nod-from-colorado-ski-country-voters
November 4th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
“Rush Limbaugh is blaming Gingrich and other Republicans for the Hoffman loss in NY-23. He says they stayed with Scozzafava too long, and that if Republicans had gotten behind Hoffman sooner, he would have won.” How is Mr. Limbaugh wrong? Despite having to run on a Third party ticket (due to the failure of the party to hold a primary) the real Republican received about 46%, most than any Conservative candidate in the history of New York state. Can anyone say with a straight face that the GOP would not have won if they held a primary. The GOP spent about $900, 000 on a liberal candidate and she could not even clear 10%? And we are supposed to believe that if only Dede was even more liberal we would have won? Wow talk about a missed lesson by our party’s left! It as funny that some are trying to spin that Mr. Hoffman is further right than the new Governor or Virginia. Another missed lesson!
November 4th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Hoffman was the candidate, he and only him is to blame. Did he go to the debate? No. Did he convey that he understood local issues. No, he did not. People don’t elect conservatives. They elect people.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
True to his narcissistic nature, Rush is spinning the loss of Hoffman so as not to reflect on himself. Rush is irrelevant. He was irrelevant on McCain in the 08 primary and he is irrelevant here with Hoffman. So what that Rush has a big audience. He makes no new converts and only alienates those who aren’t in his choir already.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Bottom line: Scozzafava supported the Dem! Scozzafava supported the Dem! Scozzafava supported the Dem!
What more needs to be said: (1) Confirms Palin did the right thing (2) Commenters on this site care more about not losing their RINO control of the GOP than whether the GOP wins national elections (they’d rather be a losing party so long as they stay in control of that party)
November 4th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
159. What more needs to be said is that if Hoffman had won, a lot of you would be telling us it was all due to Palin.
Now that he lost, we are told Palin had nothing to do with that loss.
You can’t have it both ways.
I don’t think Palin did the right thing at all, Jack. I think she should have kept her nose out of it, along with every other national figure. Palin was looking for attention. She did not think through the consequences. Now, she is responsible for part of the debacle.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
158. Dan, I haven’t heard that much of Rush today, but he seems to be saying as little about Palin as possible. Again, if Hoffman had won, Rush would be telling us she is THE ONE we need. He’ll never be objective, or intellectually honest when it comes to Palin.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
“True to his narcissistic nature, Rush is spinning the loss of Hoffman so as not to reflect on himself. Rush is irrelevant.” If Mr. Limbaugh (and company) is so irrelevant, please explain how Ms. Scozzafava had to leave the race in disgrace. Wow! The RINO wing of our party cannot even get 10% in New York yet the RINO win is spinning it as a win for them. I suppose the fact that the Dems won is the second best thing for the RINOs so I guess from that point of view, the RINOs won.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Consequences you say?
The result — not having that seat go to a RINO, so it can go to a real GOPer in 2010 — was a GOOD CONSEQUENCE!!! (proven by Scozzafava supporting the Dem).
True, a better result would have been if Hoffman won; but STILL Palin did accomplish getting RINO (really a Dem) Scozzafava out! (so the seat can go to a real GOPer in 2010)
November 4th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
“Now that he lost, we are told Palin had nothing to do with that loss.” On the other hand, Martha, Mrs. Palin backed the candidate who only a few weeks ago could only get a little over 20% and he ends up getting a higher vote per centage than any candidate in the history of the New York Conservative party. Spin that one Martha.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
OHIO.#156:“How is Mr. Limbaugh wrong?”
How is he right? Many people say that if the 1976 election was held one week later, Gerald Ford would have won, and we would never have had to suffer through Jimmy Carter. We will never know, will we?
This sort of speculation is all unprovable. We only get one chance at history. We cannot rewind history and try it again with different parameters to see what the different outcome would have been.
I used to enjoy listening to Rush, but quite frankly, he seems to be losing it in many areas. Now he has taken to the Palinite’s favorite response to any setback — blame someone else.
This seems to be prerequisite of being a Palin supporter. Nothing is ever Palin’s fault. It is always nefarious outside forces holding her back. She is always the victim. It is always somebody, somewhere out to get her.
She needs to be careful. This sort of thing inevitably leads to marginalization.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
I forgot Martha, your elite friends in your party spent $900, 000 to trash Mr. Hoffman. Despite this waste of money, 46% of New York 23ers saw it differently.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
164. The GOP would have kept the seat if national figures hadn’t been involved. She was winning easily before this thing blew up.
I’m not saying I liked Dede, I don’t. I am saying we should let locals choose their own candidates, and that we should not follow anyone who wants to blow the GOP to smithereens.
Romney did the exactly right thing in this case, and was humble about it. Palin’s involvement and rhetoric has been decidedly arrogant and over-the-top.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
And we are supposed to believe that if only Dede was even more liberal we would have won?
You’re still nuts. Who EVER said that? Who EVER made the claim that if Dede were more liberal we would have won?
November 4th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
165. Mark,
I have written the same things about Palin repeatedly (that nothing is ever her fault, etc) but when I do, I get excoriated for it ~
Granted, we both have our reputations.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
That is absolutely true. Her initial base in Watertown was bigger than Owens’ base in Plattsburgh. One thing running against Hoffman is that he had no geographic base – because he was from outside of (and knew nothing of) the district.
The Club for (Democrat) Growth just extended it’s streak.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Martha and I and a decent sized minority of commenters on this site are being proved right about Palin.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Jack,
The results are quite clear from last night. We should not run conservative purist candidates (Hoffman), nor should we run Rockefeller Republicans (Scozzafava).
We can run conservative Republicans (McDonnell, and now Rubio) and more moderate-leaning ones (Christie, Kirk, etc). But races have to be first and foremost about leadership, not ideology. The thing we care most about at this point is not letting Palin’s gang get control of the party and drive everyone else out of it in a purge. We should not be forcing Republicans of any sort to switch sides over ideology.
Really, though, I’m loving the irrelevance of the Palin crowd. Talk radio went on a vendetta against McCain and Huckabee last year and those two performed the best in the Republican primaries. They encouraged this conservative uprising only to have it squashed while two candidates that stayed far away from them won massive victories. Seems to me all this talk of a “silent conservative majority” that will emerge to vote for your purist candidates *doesn’t* exist! On the contrary, Republicans that do not pose as conservative revolutionaries do just fine. Leadership trumps ideology. Tuesday was a great victory for that in our party.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Why in the heck does my name have a link associated with it? I did not do that.
November 4th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
171. Slow and steady wins the race, Adam.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
RE: NY-23
The worse thing is to have a Republican vote with the Democrats. Dede would have given the Democrats bipartisanship for Obama’s big government programs. Remember how they trumpeted Snowe’s lone Republican vote. At least we identified and threw out a traitor, and the Democrats won’t be able to point to another “Republican” and say she voted with them.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
OHIO,
Some people are overplaying the loss for Sarah. They are wrong to do so. On the other hand, some are underplaying it. That is just as wrong.
Sarah lost ground yesterday. Was it fatal? No. But she did lose ground nonetheless. Now let’s wait and see in the coming weeks and months how she reacts.
Power without discipline is nearly always a destructive force. The mere fact that she managed to drive another candidate from the race only proves she is capable of destructive force. How do you build with that? She needs to develop greater discipline, or she will be marginalized.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
marK,
“This seems to be prerequisite of being a Palin supporter. Nothing is ever Palin’s fault. It is always nefarious outside forces holding her back. She is always the victim. It is always somebody, somewhere out to get her.”
Ummmm….. that’s hardly peculiar to Palin supporters around here.
Shall we have a look around the room today?
November 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
“I used to enjoy listening to Rush, but quite frankly, he seems to be losing it in many areas. Now he has taken to the Palinite’s favorite response to any setback — blame someone else.” That assumes it is a total setback. Yes, it is a setback that the Dems won the seat. However, Mrs. Palin was successful in driving a liberal RINO out of the race and out of the party. In is fine for Mr. Romney, Mr. Huckabee and Mr. Gingrich to support true moderates, but essentially, they backed directly (or indirectly) a woman who betrayed the GOP party by joining the Dems. Yes three guys were on the winning side, but it a setback in their judgement that they were fooled to one degree or another by the RINO candidate and the 4 people who supported her. It is rather difficult to spin that otherwise. Speaking about being careful. Please let’s be careful before we back directly or indirectly, RINO candidate who try to tear the party apart. Getting less than 10% is not a whole lot to brag about. 46% may be less than 50, but it is not less than 10. I do not claim to be the sharpest bulb around here, but I know a little about numbers and I think I can confidently say that there are more Conservatives than liberals in the party. So unless we plan to allow both Democrats and Independent vote in GOP primaries by significant numbers, I would take note of a few number. The RINO party in the United States is not a whole lot bigger than the Rhino party of Canada was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party_of_Canada
November 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Honestly, if Scozzafava would have been that far left and supported some really bad legislation, her district could have smoothly primaried her. She knows she has to represent them or she’ll get chucked.
And her command of local issues far, far exceeded Hoffman’s, which is the real test for any Congressman. If you don’t know the people where you’re at, you’ll never represent them well.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Bill,
#175. True. There is the “useful idiot” factor that often makes a left-center Republican worse than a Democrat.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
MPC, “irrelevance of Palin”??? She’s the only one who can make or break the GOP.
By the way, who do you prefer in Florida, Rubio or Crist?
November 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
175,
I keep hearing that argument and I am only very mildly sympathetic to it. In the end the stimulus was almost exclusively a Democrat affair. All by two Republicans (and one former GOPer) voted for it. In no way does the passage of the stimulus constitute anything bipartisan. Have the Democrats even tried to claim it as such? If they have then I haven’t heard it. And no one would believe it.
Dede would have been FORCED to the center of her party if she wanted to win reelection. That’s true whether you believe she is a moderate or a liberal faking moderate stances. And a moderate in our caucus is far preferable to another Democrat in the House. Those that claim Owens is a “conservative Democrat” anyway need to realize that Owens is going to be pushed leftward by the DCCC if he wants to survive (because affluent the 23rd ain’t – and it’s awfully hard to raise money there in a normal setting) just as the Republicans would have forced Dede to the right.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
“Ummmm….. that’s hardly peculiar to Palin supporters around here.” Haha, I am glad that we have some honesty from the Pawlenty camp.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
#175.
Have you never heard the expression, “Sure, he is an SOB; but he is our SOB”? When all is said and down, I would rather have a Republican SOB in congress than a Democratic one.
That doesn’t mean we have to blow a ton of money propping him up. Dede was an atrocious choice made by the incompetents running the GOP in NY-23. I blame them for this far more than anybody else.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Haha. Sure. She BROKE the GOP. The more that happens, the less likely it is that the calmer heads in the GOP allow it to happen again. That’s bad news if she wants to be president.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Bill589, yes, EXACTLY, Palin had the guts to perform that valuable service!!!
November 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Adam, Palin saved the GOP in upstate NY from having a Dem cross-over RINO!
November 4th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
181,
I prefer Rubio at this point. Crist has been tainted by some poor choices as Governor that were politically convenient but have left Florida ultimately worse-off. I think Rubio’s got a great case against him. And up and coming minority leaders in the GOP always have to be encouraged with special attention
November 4th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
So saving the NY GOP means electing more Democrats? A GOP already on its deathbed needs a punch in the groin? That’s saving it?
Geez. I hope you aren’t a doctor or anything.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
“You’re still nuts. Who EVER said that? Who EVER made the claim that if Dede were more liberal we would have won?
” OK, will somebody paint a senario how she could have won. If she was so popular before Mrs. Palin came to town, why were so many NY-23er undecided? Oh no, it could not be that the these people were so unimpressed by her? C’mon.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
If Rubio is so great then he can make his case to the FL GOP – and he can sink or swim.
Then – and this is really important – AFTER the primary, whichever candidate loses will back the winner and allow the party to be unified against the Democrats. That’s the way you do it.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
MWS,
I never said it was a trait exclusive to Palin supporters. I am not such a fool as that. I only said that it sometimes seems to be a prerequisite for them.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Ohio – she won before. Yeah. As a REPUBLICAN. And she was ahead in the polls until the talk radio crowd made it a national quest.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
“Geez. I hope you aren’t a doctor or anything.” Good point, haha is it not funny how these doctor say that we need a vacine (with the live virus) to prevent us from getting the flu and how doctors say we need to lose our hair to defeat cancer (which is what RINOs are to our party.) Here is my favorite: the doctor tell us that the neddle will hurt him more than it will hurt us.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Jack,
I think it has been pretty well argued that Scozzafava would have stayed well inside our caucus on most issues, out of necessity. Ideal candidate? No. We should have had someone closer to Christie for NY-23, but Scozzafava was the selection of the local leadership, because there were no conservatives that could match her command of local issues. She’d have made in the end a decent representative most likely.
Palin in the end is playing up the conservative zealotry to the party’s detriment. We are more than capable of performing well as McDonnell and Christie both amply proved, and I think moderates and conservatives are going to take some good lessons last night – stay away from Palin and purist conservatism, like McDonnell and Christie did.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
“Ohio – she won before. Yeah. As a REPUBLICAN. And she was ahead in the polls until the talk radio crowd made it a national quest.” Winning one little assembly district is not exactly the same as winning a whole Congressional district that is about 3 times the size. I know a guy who can win my ward, but I do not think my city councilman could win my whole city.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
“No. We should have had someone closer to Christie for NY-23,” Ha, note, it was not me who said that.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Ohio,
We aren’t advocating a new Rockefeller Republican party, after all, just saying that there is a time and a place for our Snowe’s and our DeMint’s. They are all, in the end, Republicans. But no matter where they are, our candidates will not win just because they are conservative.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
It’s not the SAME thing. But it’s not NOTHING either. Scozz was much better known in the more populous western end around Watertown. Owens only had recogntion on one arm of the district that swings around Herkimer county to the east around Plattsburgh. So from a geographic standpoint Scozzafava was favored.
When it comes down to prior elections, Scozzafava was favored – as Owens was a newcomer.
Finally the national mood was such that Democrats just weren’t energized after having spent all of last year amped over Obama.
All of that is why she led in polling and why she was originally favored before the split.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
#154 “Then what did you mean when you said “yes she did”? I thought it was in response to my previous post where I said she didn’t lie.”
Here’s the entire quote from you that I was responding to, with what I responded “Yes, she did” to in bold:
“I admit that Knickers is very blunt sometimes in her comments, but she is not hateful, nor does she lie. She never claimed to have any other proof of a Palin affair than the NE. If she did, show me. I’ve never seen a lie from knickers.
My point is that she claimed to have more information than what she provided, which never materialized. If you want, we can continue this discussion, but I think we’re both finding this a bit tedious.
Since I have this quote up, I might as well point out that you say she hasn’t been hateful in her comments, but I can’t reconcile that with the undeniably hateful comparison of the “hard right” to devils, bigots, and Nazis.. Again, if you still want to discuss it…
At the end of the day, Republicans and Conservatives need to come together. It happened in NJ, where the moderate Rep was fully supported by Conservatives on election day, even though Conservatives wanted Steve L. NY-23 was a situation where both sides tried to force their candidate on the other, with the final result being nobody won. Both need to learn from that, instead of running around and pointing fingers. Voters aren’t interested in that, they just want the gov’t to work.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Scozzafava was not a great candidate – but she was no worse than Hoffman from a retail politics, concern of local issues standpoint.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Regarding Mark Kirk:
IL-Sen: Kirk Seeks Palin Endorsement
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/eye-on-2012/il-sen-kirk-seeks-palin-endors.html#comments
November 4th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Steele on the victories, NY-23 race:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/11/steele-throws-elbow-to-palin-pawlenty-on-ny23.html
He’s reaching basically the same conclusion:
“If you don’t live in the district, you don’t vote there, your opinion doesn’t matter very much,”
That, folks, is what it comes down to.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
“We aren’t advocating a new Rockefeller Republican party, after all, just saying that there is a time and a place for our Snowe’s and our DeMint’s. They are all, in the end, Republicans. But no matter where they are, our candidates will not win just because they are conservative.” You are half right. Yes it is true that few of you actually would have chosen a Barakefeller for NY-23. However, there have been a few people around here (you may not have been among them so do not wear the shoe if it does not fit) have jumped up and down and said that Mr. Christie is a moderate (oh, and I am not talking about anon.) Yes, Mr. Christie is not as Conservative as I and a few others would like, but he is certainly no RINO. Frankly, I am glad in a way that a somewhat Blue state of NJ would elect a Conservative as Mr. Christie. In short, my comment is as much to do with the NJ spin and the like as it is to do with NY-23.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Tommy.#202,
After reading that, I am grateful I have been making a point that Sarah is still a force to be reckoned with. This would tend to support that assertion.
My only concern is that this past election cycle, Palin has only proven she can be a destructive force. As such, she has lost some ground. It sounds like Mark Kirk is willing to give her the opportunity to prove she can be a constructive force, as well. Good. I will be watching.
I suspect I won’t be the only one.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I think if Sarah returns to working with the Republican Party we’d all appreciate it. Glenn Beck may not, but I would
November 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Polarizing Palin’s Book Tour Confined to ‘Real America’
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jkORUivxxSnaZgQZzWVsfGbSRZbQD9BOSE8G2
Sarah Palin’s book tour is a gift for her base.
GOP honcho Michael Steele to Sarah Palin: ‘Your opinion doesn’t matter’
http://www.examiner.com/x-22698-Celebrity-Politics-Examiner~y2009m11d4-GOP-honcho-Michael-Steele-to-Sarah-Palin-Your-opinion-doesnt-matter
Democrats thank God for Conservatives like Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh shaking up GOP
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/11/04/2009-11-04_democrats_thanking_god_for_conservatives_like_sarah_palin_rush_limbaugh_shaking_.html
Republicans revel in wins but ideological fissures loom
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/04/AR2009110402752_pf.html
November 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
MarK,
Kirk was the one who released the memo to the public. It seems that he wants Illinois conservatives to know about it. It’s not as if Palin is the one pleading to Kirk for help.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Aron,
How is Minneapolis a “small town?”
Sarah Palin will sign books at MOA on Dec. 7
http://www.twincities.com/entertainment/ci_13711747
November 4th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
The Daily Kos says:
Deeds lost because he wasn’t progressive enough!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/11/4/800481/-More-On-Last-Nights-Big-Lesson
Sound familiar?
November 4th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
“Kirk was the one who released the memo to the public. It seems that he wants Illinois conservatives to know about it. It’s not as if Palin is the one pleading to Kirk for help.” Haha, it is funny that Mr. Kirk (from a Blue state) is afraid of a bunch of people who could only get 46% in NY. However, to Mr. Kirk’s credit, at least he is running in a fair and democratic primary process and Mr. Kirk is not trying to look for 4 Chicago gangsters to help him by-pass the primary process.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
MPC,
Kos isn’t completely wrong. The turnout among 18-29 year olds and minorities was extremely low last night compared to 2008. The 18-29 crowd was less than 10% of the electorate in both states.
Deeds absolutely destroyed McDonnell among blacks (even by a greater margin than Bush lost them to Kerry). Deeds outperformed Obama even with white Democrats. Corzine took Christie’s lunch among Hispanics. Yesterday was a bad day for those who say we need to appeal to minorities to win (I’m in that group by the way) because McDonnell and Christie evidently had no appeal to minorities at all.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
“Democrats had a grim election Tuesday, but they’re giving thanks to a growing conservative revolution in the Republican Party that cost the GOP in Northern New York last night and threatens to do so nationwide.
“It’s happening in every state in the union,” said one otherwise anxious Democratic operative who spoke candidly on background. Republicans “are facing primaries from the right all over, and that’s the only thing saving our asses.”
From the NY Daily News article.
November 4th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
“How is Minneapolis a “small town?”” Shhhhhhhhhh, it is in flyover country and wee all know what the Northeast elite think about that.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
“because McDonnell and Christie evidently had no appeal to minorities at all.” Shhhh, Tommy Boy, you need to stop destroying the memo, don’t you know that Mr. Hoffman is the racist bigot that does appeal to minorities. BTW, you are also not suppose to tell anybody that a few ethnic voters voted for Mr. Hoffman.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
202:
Palin Power in Illinois.
With Kirk’s desire for a Palin endorsement, it sure seems like some Moderate Republicans realize the significance of Palin in 2010.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
200. Okay, I finally gotcha. Sorry about the confusion.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
217. To be more clear, I meant I finally understand you, not the other kind of gotcha!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
While it’s true that Christie did not fare any better among blacks than McCain in Jersey, he did pull in 32% of Hispanics; 11 percent more than the 21% McCain received from Latinos last year in the Garden State.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Aron,
Bush 43% of New Jersey Latinos in 2004. So Christie lagged quite far behind the left’s former favorite bogeyman.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
All aboard the Marco Rubio train…
November 4th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
“Bush 43% of New Jersey Latinos in 2004.” BINGO!!! Thanks for beating me to the punch Tommy Boy.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
212,
For sure, he could have used more base turnout to keep the race closer, but the Dems bled Independents and moderates and that’s what sunk them. Deeds managed to look like a useless tool of Obama to them without actually being an enthusiastic enough supporter of the progressive agenda for the Kossacks.
And as far as minorities go, we are still recovering somewhat from Obama’s impact there I think. That, and in any election where the conservative base gets mentioned, minorities are going to recoil thanks to the associations with nativism. That whole affair killed us with any Hispanics not already assimilated into white America. McDonnell actually recieved great reviews by many minority groups as he personally went for their support. I think both elections had great ground level “community organizing” among the middle-class groups Republicans are built on. What we need are more Jack Kemp-style policies targeting lower class minorities to help give them some real economic mobility and chance for small business development. The more we promote the economic independence of lower class people, the less tied they’ll be to the Democrat Party.
As long as they are down there and stuck economically, they’ll always be largely Democrat.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
And imagine the Latinos pulled in to vote for a Palin/Rubio ’12 ticket!!!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Palin/Rubio ’12 will represent a giant multi-generational shift towards the GOP (the ultimate fear of the Dems!!!)
November 4th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
“And imagine the Latinos pulled in to vote for a Palin/Rubio ‘12 ticket!!!” You do know that such a ticket would send a few people around here to hit the roof?
November 4th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Ohio,
Bush didn’t have nativists pretending to run his party in ’04. And this is the same Bush who can appeal to Hispanics that conservatives hated for being so friendly to them and to minority economic development in general. McCain historically also got large amounts of the Hispanic vote in his Arizona elections, but as soon as he became tied to national conservatives in ’08, he couldn’t pull anything near that.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
OHIO JOE, the “people around here” you refer to are the dinosaurs of the past, who care more about their place in the GOP than the future of our Republic.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Tommy.#208:“It’s not as if Palin is the one pleading to Kirk for help.”
I’m confused. Who said she was? I said that Kirk was willing to give her the opportunity to be a constructive force. Where did I say or even imply that Sarah was pleading for anything?
Tommy. I am not anti-Palin. I never have been. I support her in what she is trying to do. I do fault her for doing it in such an undisciplined manner. (Hey, I’m a Romney fan. What else would you expect from me?) Far too often I see her act first, think later, and then blame others when things don’t work out right.
Now maybe you admire her spontaneity, and I’ll admit it can be somewhat charming, but I don’t wish to see a shoot-from-the-hip, make-it-up-as-I-go-along person as President.
If she would develop more discipline, she could become a great force for good. Right now she has a bit of a loose cannon quality about her that make many other politicians want to keep her at arm’s length. That limits her effectiveness, I am sure you will agree.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Half the people on this site are lunatics. How is this a win for Romney? He played both sides of the fence…there is never a loss when you do that. I want a leader that has convictions not one who takes the safe route every single time.
I am a moderate republican but I always felt that the true principle of conservatism was fiscal responsibility. I am socially more moderate. How can anyone back Dede, she is not even fiscally responsible, she is anti-tax cut. After last November every body said that you cannot have moderates running for office, kick ‘em out, etc… Now when the party backs a moderate but Palin backs the Conservative you people are all of a sudden for the moderates…you people don’t make any sense. It is not about party loyalty for some of you it is about Romney and it is against anything or anyone that gets in his way…what a bunch of followers!!!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
OHIO JOE, and note the whole title of this thread “winners and losers” from NY- 23. The “people around here” you refer to care more about trying to paint Palin as a loser than anything else.
They remind me of the same Dems and MSM preoccupation with dumping on Palin — apparently the real threat they’re all three (Dems, MSM, RINO’s) concerned about more than anything else.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
OJ,
I’m growing weary of all your various references to ‘people around here”.
If you’re going to accuse, you should be more specific. Who are you talking about?
November 4th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
I reject the notion around here that if you support Romney, and do not support Palin then you are a RINO.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
229 – please give links and instances when she does that.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
So, all the GOP needs to do is find another presidential candidate who’s fluent in Spanish and supports comprehensive immigration reform, providing a pathway to citizenship for 15 million mostly Hispanic illegal immigrants.
Has Sarah ordered her Rosetta Stone yet?
November 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Jack although I agree with the sentiment I disagree about the RINO portion. A lot of these same people were blaming McCain and the fact that he is a moderate as to why we lost last November. They are Conservatives with a capital C, they just want and need Romney to be the nominee in 2012 and they will say and do anything to help that cause.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
it comes down to this –
Palin 0 for 1( NY 23- wasnt asked to campaign in NJ and VA- for a reason it might add)
Pawlenty- 1 for 2 (VA campaigned there for McDonnell and NY-23)
Huckabee- 1 for 1 (ny -23 cause he stayed out and tried to help at the end)
Mitt Romney 3 for 3 ( VA, NJ- campaigned for both men and down ticketers, NY-23 Cause he stayed out of it)
look what some of you far right conservatives dont understand is that the nation doesnt look the same out my front door as it does yours.
I have said it before on this site and i will say it again, we will NOT win in 2010 or 2012 by coming from the far right.
The independents carried the victory to the GOP last night and it is that group that will carry us to victory in 2010 and 2012. independents wanted limited government,ideas around the economy, limited taxes and no overbearing social agenda (be that far right or far left)
so who said those things in this election- Christie, McDonnell.
you want a blueprint for success in 2010 and 2012 look for the method and people these two men reached out for in their campaigns and you will have a winning team.
personally i like Romney and Huck(i cant believe i just typed that) to fill this need
November 4th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Look, you Romneybots got to giveitup.
First of all, Massachusetts Health Care is a state fiscal failure — depriving Romney of any ground to stand on that issue.
Second of all, with the emergence of the domestic energy issue, Palin is the “go to” expert on that (not Romney).
Romney, Huckabee, etc. are soooooo yesterday and (along with Pawlenty) snoozingly boring.
Barring some unforseem cirumstances, it’s GONNA be Palin in ’12. Get used to it. SHE is the superstar — a Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan rolled up in one!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Well MPC, there may be a few Nativists in America, but by definition I cannot be in their camp. I see no problem with being a Conservative while at the same time welcoming new Americans. After, many Conservative Americans have welcomed me.
Well Martha, maybe you should name more names as to who around here is a bigotted anti-Romneyite. On second thought, let’s not open that can of worms.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
237 – who’s far right? I’m most definitely one of the most moderate republicans on this site and I am one of the most fervent Palin supporters on this site.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
jersey,
Palin worked against the Republican and cost us the seat. That’s the beef with her. The whole Hoffman strategy is a giant failure as last night goes to show. We can and should run plenty of conservatives. Conservatives like McDonnell and Rubio who work within the party with an optimistic, pragmatic focus and exhibit actual leadership beyond “I’m a conservative! Vote for me!”
Leadership before ideology. And most of us putting Palin and the whole tea party gang to the fire here are not Romney backers. We just happen to overlap in our concerns.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
jerseyrepublican, if what you say is the case re the Romney people here, boy are they dreaming.
The conservative base is PRECISELY the group which distrusts Romney.
Watch the MSM try and promote Huckabee and/or Romney — that should tell you everything you need to know!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Jack.#228“OHIO JOE, the “people around here” you refer to are the dinosaurs of the past, who care more about their place in the GOP than the future of our Republic.”
Well, speaking as one of those dinosaurs, may I suggest you should learn to be wary of bright flashes across the sky? They may be awe-inspiring, exciting, and pretty-looking; but they can end up being having disastrous effects.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
MPC says “cost us the seat” — we don’t want that seat to go to a Dem-crossing RINO who the Dems can point to for bipartisianship.
Palin saved us from that!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
mark:–
“awe-inspiring” and “exciting” are EXACTLY what we need, coupled with Palin’s intelligence, courage and political savvy!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
“I reject the notion around here that if you support Romney, and do not support Palin then you are a RINO.
” Well Martha, I reject the notion that if you are in favor of fiscal responsibility and you support a mainstream Conservative non-ACORN candidate, you are out of the mainstream. I do not think many people have said that all Romneyites are RINOs. However, I maintain that a few of them are skating a little close to the edge.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
MPC, I understand what happened. She didn’t work against the Republican, she endorsed the Conservative. The Republican’s put up the worst candidate they could’ve in such a conservative district and she decided as a free human being to endorse the person the party should have endorsed. The party chose to endorse Dede, they funneled 1 million dollars to take down the accountant, the Democrats spent the same if not more, Dede, the traitor, endorsed a liberal over a Conservative and against all of those odds, Hoffman came within three points of beating Owens.
If you’re happy with the status quo then I understand how you would get in line and eat the cake that these politicians, even some in our own party are serving us. I think this nonsense has to stop and sanity has to be put back into place before our dollar is not worth the paper it is printed on.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
“237 – who’s far right? I’m most definitely one of the most moderate republicans on this site and I am one of the most fervent Palin supporters on this site.” Shhhh, haha, they recent the fact that moderates like you refrain from trashing Conservatism.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Palin’s folks are the same type that think Huckabee, McCain, Giuliani, and Romney are all a bunch of Rockefeller Republicans or something. All are conservative to a T on the vast majority of issues. But they are not purists who agree with kicking moderates out of the party. That’s the difference here.
Palin has a couple of Reagan’s strengths that no other Republican currently manifests, but she also has a billion flaws he never had that I can’t accept. She’s not leadership material. And we honestly don’t need all of our Presidential candidates to be images of Ronald Reagan in the first place.
And evidence that Scozzafava would have jumped in with the Democrats? Heck, a large share of the Democrats themselves right now aren’t jumping in with the Democrats, so why would she? I’d rather have a 60% conservative in her than a 20% conservative in Owens, which is what the “purists” apparently prefer. All or nothing only ends up with more liberal-leaning Democrats than conservative-leaning Republicans.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I’ve said it before and will say it again. Palin is our modern Perot. The big question is will she hand the presidency to Obama in ’12 the way that Perot handed it to Clinton in ’92.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
jersey,
I’m happy with candidates like McDonnell and Christie in your own state. They represent just why our party is still a great party. And neither of them needed Palin nor her brand of conservatism to win. So why should we go for more Hoffman’s, over more McDonnell’s and Christie’s?
November 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Aron,
That is the position of our libertarian/business pals at the Chamber of Commerce. Just sayin’
November 4th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
A Victory in NY 23 for Conservatives
By John McCormack
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/11/a_victory_in_ny_23_for_conserv.asp
November 4th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
249 – I am also one of the most fervent Giuliani supporters. People like to blame Palin for the loss last year but if Giuliani was on the top of the ticket with Palin as his running mate, I guarantee we would’ve won last year.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Tommy,
Are you on board for immigration reform, then?
November 4th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
“That is the position of our libertarian/business pals at the Chamber of Commerce. Just sayin’” Oh, Tommy, you know that the Chamber of Commerce are just a bunch extremists Tea Party nut, haha! But, don’t you love the irony.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
#255 Yes, it depends on what we mean of course by immigration reform but in general, yes.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
ROFLMAO @ 202: That Kirk request!
Here’s Kirk, a proclaimed moderate, on bended knee begging for Palin’s endorsement so as to preempt a primary challenge, and the same Palinophobes continue on the foregone conclusion that Palin’s right-wing radicalism has forever poisoned the party.
Reality just keeps getting in the way of the hypothesis that Palin’s contributions are only ever negligible and/or destructive.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
DanL, Palin will never go third party for POTUS! Get real!
MPC, “Scozzafava ALREADY jumped in with the Dems!!!! (what the heck are you talking about)
MPC, Palin not “leadership material” — why, because you say so, ‘leadership material’ — what a BS abstraction. Anyway, do you know the kind of leadership Palin showed in Alaska in getting the natural gas pipeline deal through!!!???!!! — against an entrenched old boys corporate and political network.
She has already demonstraed EXACTLY what “leadership” is!
November 4th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
“249 – I am also one of the most fervent Giuliani supporters. People like to blame Palin for the loss last year but if Giuliani was on the top of the ticket with Palin as his running mate, I guarantee we would’ve won last year.
” Haha, funny how that liberal Republican, Mr. Giuliani endorsed Mr. Hoffman. So what gives with Mr. Romney?
November 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
MPC, I ma glad Christie won as well, as flawed of a candiate that he was. I don’t really understand your point. I find it funny that all of the Palin detractors try to say that it is always about Palin when you are the people that make it about her. I understand that they did not ask Palin to campaign with them but neither of them needed her to…McDonnell could have won that with his eyes closed and Christie should have won by a bigger margin. He probably should’ve invited Palin and he would’ve won by 10.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
MPC,
By the way, the polling suggests that the GOP should double down against immigration reform. That’s the lesson that people can take from McDonnell and Christie: both men were taken to school by their opponents among minorities and that all you need is to run up huge margins with white voters.
I’d guess that an overwhelming majority of Christie and McDonnell voters are opposed to comprehensive immgiration reform.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
And how would that be, honestly? Against the Obama tidal wave, against having Bush in the White House for 8 years, against the TARP situation? McCain was the best we had. Giuliani probably could have done as well or maybe even a bit better, had he finally shown enthusiasm for campaigning, but based on what we saw in the primaries McCain was a better candidate.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
260 – Romney has no convictions. He has proved that time and time again. He played both sides of the fence in NY-23 and when the Conservative loses to the Liberal, they say that Romney was the winner…what followers.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
“Anyway, do you know the kind of leadership Palin showed in Alaska” Haha, Jack, they do not care about Alaska. Alaska is not part of the lower 48 and Alaskans should not poke their nose into the business of the American people. Shhhhh, don’t tell them that Alaska joined the Union.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
jersey werent you a big Rudy fan in 08? how can you go from Rudy to Palin?
jack, what you dont get and because you dont get it you will cost us the 2010 and 2012 elections (although i am beginning to wonder if that isnt the cause you aspire to)
PALIN IS NOT NATIONALLY ELECTABLE NOW OR NEVER (yes I know I am yelling but it is something that cannot be downplayed)
whether the national person is Huckabee, Romney or some other person yet to be seen time will play out, but Mcdonnell and Christie both told Palin to stay away because they knew she was dynamite (and not in a good sense).
Now does that mean that Palin cant be part of the GOP, absolutely NOT, she is a great part and so are those that support her. As a group we win, divided we lose.
why is it that the Palin group wants it to be about dividing the party? why cant you be a GOP member if you want strong fiscal responsibility, and national defense? Why is it you have to agree with us on the social issues or you are a RINO?
someone answer me those questions so that I can begin to understand this obession with idealogical purity that comes from the Palin group cause it seems very not productive. I cite OJ as my example, a former fantastic poster, objective yet principled, who has gone to the Palin camp and has become, wll I dont know what Ohio has become. That just isnt right.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Giuliani was a better candidate for the general. He understood economics and how to turn around a flailing economy. He already had plans to fix healthcare…specific plans. He didn’t rely on hope and change, he had plans. McCain had no idea what to do. The only thing he got right was picking Palin as his VP.
November 4th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
“By the way, the polling suggests that the GOP should double down against immigration reform. That’s the lesson that people can take from McDonnell and Christie: both men were taken to school by their opponents among minorities and that all you need is to run up huge margins with white voters.” Shhhhhh, why do you think they support the camp that they do? They figure that if they can rack up the White vote, they do not need minorities. That is all fine and good for 2012, but that may not work in 2016.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
jack hows that Palin courage treating you today with one more Democrat in congress?
oh i forgot better to have a democrat than a republican who isnt as pure as the mighty Jack and Palin !
November 4th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
corep, This Palin “ideological purity” stuff is getting tiresome. You say this, why, because Palin has some overarching principles. She’s no political dummy; she can play the game quite well; she has demonstrated she knows how.
She knows, you’ve got to inspire — and Romney simply does not with his fair weather change-in-the-wind politics.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
corep, better to have a Dem (trying to be blue dog) for one year so that a real GOPer can get in, than having a pretend-GOP, a RINO, who the Dems can site for bipartisianship!
Palin knows that!
November 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
266 – I don’t believe in ideological purity. I am pro-choice and I could care less if you worship Jesus or Satan. I’m not looking for a preacher, I am looking for a President. You ask how I can go from Giuliani to Palin. I ask you, how you cannot? They are so similar in the way they get results. They work with everyone for the betterment of their communities. There are so many similarities that if I were a FPP, I would write an entire post about how they come from the same school of governance, as Reagan did before them.
Anyone who looks at Palin’s record knows it is not one of far right governance but pragmatic and realistic governance that sees results. Sure she is the darling of the base but she also governs very moderately and to the letter of the constitution.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
How about Bob McDonnell as the compromise candidate for the Republican nomination in 2012?
November 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I believe that the most important Conservative issue of this time in history is fiscal responsibility and foreign policy. Dede didn’t believe in either so she was not even a Conservative in my mind. Wake up we lost yesterday, not when Dede took her name out of the contest, we lost when Owens barely beat Hoffman and we lost thanks to our own party funneling money to get a liberal elected. I’m speaking of the million they gave to Dede to destro the Conservative. Why would our party spend a million dollars to destroy a Conservative? Wake up people…this isn’t about Palin…it’s about our party.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
“How about Bob McDonnell as the compromise candidate for the Republican nomination in 2012?” No problem from me.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Jack,
Palin was a great leader in Alaska, for sure. McCain surely liked what he saw in that regard. But as far as nationwide issues are concerned, she’s terrible.
“MPC, I ma glad Christie won as well, as flawed of a candiate that he was. I don’t really understand your point. I find it funny that all of the Palin detractors try to say that it is always about Palin when you are the people that make it about her. I understand that they did not ask Palin to campaign with them but neither of them needed her to…McDonnell could have won that with his eyes closed and Christie should have won by a bigger margin. He probably should’ve invited Palin and he would’ve won by 10.”
Christie winning a majority of the moderate vote and Palin’s ratings among the moderate vote lead me to not believe that. Christie was strong on the issues of the day, so conservatives turned out strong for him regardless. More importantly, though, because of that the moderates gave him the thumbs up over Corzine.
Tommy,
“MPC,
By the way, the polling suggests that the GOP should double down against immigration reform. That’s the lesson that people can take from McDonnell and Christie: both men were taken to school by their opponents among minorities and that all you need is to run up huge margins with white voters.
I’d guess that an overwhelming majority of Christie and McDonnell voters are opposed to comprehensive immgiration reform.”
I’m not surprised about the Black vote, but among other minorities like Aron showed they did outperform McCain substantially. It’ll be hard to ever get us back to the strength that Bush showed there in ’04, however, at least until Hispanics as a whole start have gone the way of the Italians/Irish and become mainstream middle-class voters ie Republicans. But already there’s been a reversal from our dismal ’08 low, and I expect we’ll see movement more in our favor, than against it.
And if that failed to sink Huckabee and McCain last year among *Republicans*, I doubt it’ll do any harm whatsoever in a general election. Staking your campaign on nativism is epic fail from the start. Having no solution to an issue is a bad position to be holding when that issue is an important one.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
jack you dont get it.
ideological purity means that if you dont see it 100% down the purist possible conservative mechanism then you arent worthy of the GOP.
ever lived in NY, Jack? I have. guess what it aint kansas, AK, AL, GA, etc. Its a different beast, it has its own definition of what a conservative is. Is that definition what I think one is, no, but it is their definition and if that person in NY wants to go with a dede or maybe an Olympia Snowe in Maine, then they are entitled to do that.
and as for principles. I have plenty of them. So does Huckabee, Romney, Pawlenty.
this Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war approach from Palin, Beck, Hannity, Rush will cost the GOP any hope at the middle and the GOP will be marginalized to nothingness.
and jack I guess the game Palin plays is all about Palin and no one else. That my friend is the trouble I have with Palin.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
corep, the Palin supporters do not want to divide the party. If you consider this site as a microcosm of the overall feelings in our party then the people, who want to divide the party are the Rombots, who will say and do anything to make Governor Romney look good and any possible opponent of his, look bad. If you do not recognize that then you are not paying attention.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
MPC, I don’t think you are from NJ so you cannot possibly understand how bad Corzine is disliked here. People cannot stand him so it is not that difficult for Christie to get the moderate vote in NJ but it is amazing that Christie didn’t win this race by 10 pts.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
262. Palin is pro-amnesty, is she not?
November 4th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
corep, you say what troubles you is “the game Palin plays is all about Palin and no one else” — WHAT THE HECK DOES THAT MEAN — Is Romney any different on that score??!!?? That is meaningless gibberish. oh ok, “the game Romney plays is all about Romney and no one else”; oh ok, “the game Huckabee plays is all about Huckabee and no one else”; oh, ok, “the game Pawlenty plays is all about Pawlenty and no one else.”
sheeeesssz
November 4th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
corep, if that’s the trouble you have with Palin then you should be a Palin supporter because she doesn’t believe that. She is for the people and has proven that time and time again. I live in the Northeast and I understand the necessity for moderate Republicans, I am one…Dede wasn’t. She doesn’t even believe in cutting taxes. What are you talking about?
November 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
OJ, I’ve researched Palin in Alaska just about as much as anyone on this site, I would guess. Palin doens’t have a sparkling record there, especially since the 08 election. It was basically a debacle after that. And to top it off, she up and quit. So, yes I do care about Alaska. I think the jury is still out on the pipeline deal.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
corep, she is actually more socially conservative than she is fiscally conservative and if you are a true moderate, Northeast Republican then you would have major problems with that.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
280 – McCain was pro amnesty and she took his stance because he was the Presidential nominee and it would have been his administration. I am not aware of her ever saying her true opinion on immigration. Maybe she said there should be a path to citizenship but that could mean a number of things.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
284 when I wrote she…I was referring to Dede.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
jersey,
Oh sure, it’s a Democrat-dominated state, and Daggett took a hefty share of the vote. And Corzine’s spending edge was ridiculous, he dragged Christie – a good candidate – into the mud.
And on Romney’s supporters, I’ve probably dogged on Romney and his people more than I have on Palin, and I absolutely hated his ’08 campaign for being duplicitous, but coming from a former foe of his, he’s absolutely right here.
Is everyone forgetting that Scozzafava was very attentive to the issues in her district, and Hoffman not only didn’t have a clue, he didn’t even live there? Palin’s purist conservatism blinded them to the matters at hand, which is typical of carpetbaggers. Like Steele said, if you don’t live there, you honestly don’t have much of a say in things. This was for NY-23 to decide on their own.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Jack,
NY 23 proves one thing to me.
Romney and Huck are about the Party. Palin is about herself.
look man she gambled and lost. Good for her for having the ability to gamble bad for her for not seeing the consequences.
thats not gibberish it is real life experience.
jersey, the only reason i dont like Palin is because she cant win nationally, she energizes the right side of the base alright but she also energizes the whole left spectrum and the independents who we need, against the GOP.
plus I dont like people who quit on their job.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Martha, if that is all you got from your extensive Alaska research then you really didn’t want to pay attention or you just don’t want to be sincere in your findings.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Martha, Palin’s exact positions and programs have MORE CLOUT now with Parnell rather than lame duck Palin; and moreover, she’s assured that Palin, the GOP, WILL be relected in Alaska (which had she stayed was inviting opposition).
Palin thinks and acts “outside of the box” — and certainly on balance — whether it be for the future of the GOP, the Republic, other GOP candidates, or her own political future — she did the right thing by leaving the Governorship when she did! (polls show she’s more than regained from the hit she took when she left)
November 4th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
typo — she’s assured that GOP-Parnell will be re-elected
November 4th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
281. Yes, we can say that about all of them to a degree, but Palin seems to be more narcissistic than the others. She’s the only one who calls herself ‘THE ONE’. She hasn’t really done that much for various candidates around the country, either, whereas Romney has been all over the place with money, support and endorsements.
It seems tombe as if Palin often only gets involved if she can get the limelight. Is she interested in doing the groundwork behind the scene, like Romney? If so, I haven’t seen it.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
corep, you believe what you want and I reserve the right to say I told you so…and if I am wrong I expect the same treatment.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
288,
Exactly. She really fires up 10% of the Republican voting base, really turns off another 10% who are normally squarely Republican, looks like a fool to Independent voters who disapprove of her solidly, and would have Democrats working in overdrive to down her. It’s the same result as if Democrats put up Jesse Jackson for the Presidency.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Martha, you’re really stretching there!
November 4th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
jersey,
thats what i have always liked about you. you can let people disagree. which i appreciate it.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Martha, I heard about this “The One” comment by you, could you post a link as to when she said that because I cannot seem to find it. Thanks in advance.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Martha,
I advise you not to make this a Palin-Romney feud.
It absolves Palin of her problems by bringing in Romney’s
November 4th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
corep, thanks I, like supporters of other camps think of their respective candidate, do not understand why or how people cannot like Palin? I just do not get it. In my opinion she is the best thing to come to our party since Giuliani and Reagan before him. I don’t understand why so many people want to see her fail? Can you answer me that? There are so many Romney supporters on this site that hate her because she has the potential to take what they think Romney deserves. Of course they will say otherwise but the veil they wear is thin and the examples they use are liberal.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
290. If they do have more clout, then it is because Parnell might be seen as able to be more effective than Palin.
“She’s assured that Palin, the GOP, WILL be relected in Alaska (which had she stayed was inviting opposition)”. That’s a lame argument. Perhaps everyone should quit early then?
Folks, I didn’t say her record in Alaska was terrible overall. But she became entirely ineffective after the election, where both Republicans and Democrats were openly complaining, and where she accomplished next to nothing. (Oh please, spare me the typical comeback about both sides hating Palin because she is a maverick and took down the good old boys!).
I don’t think she’s recovered from the hit of quitting early, Jack. Most people still have a problem with it. Elected officials should not leave office early for political reasons. They should stick it out and do what they were hired to do, no mater how difficult it becomes.
That’s one of the main reasons why Palin should not be hired as POTUS. If she can’t handle little old Alaska, can she really handle being leader of the free world?
November 4th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Jersey,
Here it is.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8016906&page=1&page=1
Palin hinted that whether she holds elected office again or not, she does not intend to live a quiet life made up entirely of family fishing trips. “I don’t need a title to be the one to usher in what it is that needs to be done in our state or our country.”
November 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Martha, you said “most people still have a problem with it,” can you name 50?
November 4th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
301, oh that. You’re really fishing on that one. But thanks for the link.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
299. If Romney doesn’t run, I will oppose Palin and Huckabee just as strongly as I do now. Both are wrong for the nomination, and the country.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
What’s up with Palin supporters and their hatred for Mitt. The most vile, mean spirited comments attacking him personally and they don’t even make sense, just mean comments that just keep getting worse and worse…..it’s beyond belief really.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
302. I think her sinking poll numbers are evidence.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
jersey,
She’s a nice lady for sure, and did good things in Alaska, but she has no leadership stature. Her life is a media tabloid mess (last thing I’d want to see for us), she’s going on party purity crusades like this one, she quit her job because she had lost all that had once made her a good governor in Alaska, and simply fails to come across as substantive on most issues – though admittedly she has improved in that regard.
She still needs a lot more work, and I think she was pushed out to the cameras far before she was ready. Her transition needed to be slow and gradual.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
303. Fishing, did she say she was ‘the one’ or not?
I think she really thinks that. That’s what all the Facebook nonsense is about.
But, with Rush, Glen and others going ga-ga over you every day, it would be hard to keep a true perspective on yourself, I would imagine.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
RedState actually makes a good point, here. Seems like they too are learning some lessons:
http://www.redstate.com/dan_mclaughlin/2009/11/04/yes-all-politics-is-local/
You Need The Right Candidate Locally To Ride The National Wave. Sometimes That Means A Conservative And Sometimes It Means A Moderate.
Emphasis mine. And this is RedState, too!
November 4th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
305 – I am assuming you are referring to me, can you explain further and give an example about what you don’t understand about these so-called vile attacks?
November 4th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
MPC, that is your opinion. I appreciate you have one, I just completely disagree with it and I predict you and many others will be singing her praises in 15 to 20 months, give or take.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
jersey,
i dont want Palin to fail. I just dont see her as a winnable national candidate and right now I want to make sure that Obama fails to win a second term.
Like I say she has a place in the party, just like olympia snowe does.
maybe i am projecting too much of the tea party idealism onto her and giving her too much credit for leading a movement that quite frankly i think is a loser for us on a national level. It may be a winner for us in some places as well.
personally I am more worried about Huck than I am about Palin taking the nomination from my #1 which is Romney. Funny thing though is that Huck is becoming more palatable to me, just so long as he stays away from the religion angle, while Palin is becoming less. Last year the inverse was true.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
I wouldn’t entirely count it out, actually, I’ve said it before myself. But that’s all up to Sarah herself. I’m willing to be impressed in either case
November 4th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
All the talk of “Losers” is disingenuous at best. Sarah Palin came out and stumped for Hoffman. So did Fred Thompson, whom you didn’t trash. Sarah is a CONSERVATIVE Republican. Scozzafava definitely is not. Glen Beck is NOT a Republican, he is a Libertarian. Hoffman did very well, considering, so Beck looks like a winner to me, as does Palin. They helped get great support for the (their) conservative viewpoint, which ought to send the Republican Party a strong message that “me too” politics isn’t going to cut it in America anymore. Without winning, Hoffman, Palin and Beck scored a HUGE victory.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
314. What victory? Hoffman lost, we lost the seat, and the left is talking about the Republican civil war.
We won in Virginia, and NJ. Palin wasn’t involved in either victory. They asked her to stay away.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Lost the seat, yes. Is that your only criteria? The victory, in my opinion, was in the strong support for the conservative viewpoint. A viewpoint that both major parties have been holding in disdain. So much so, that one can barely tell the difference between Republican and Democrat, except one is way further to the left, while the other is trying to (me, too!) catch up. So, your point is to further bash Palin, or do you care about the issues??
November 4th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Bottom line:–
If Palin, Romney and Huckabee were separately to make a public appearance say, in Yankee Stadium, or say, Bush Stadium in St. Louis, WHICH ONE WOULD DRAW A CAPACITY CROWD?
OK, there’s your answer.
November 4th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Right on, Jack!
November 4th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
On the subject of winners and losers, here are the heroes and goats from Race42012′s electoral predictions thread:
New Jersey: Christie 49%; Corzine 45%; Daggett 6%
Winners
Dave: Christie 48%; Corzine 45%; Daggett 7% (MoE: 2%)
Bob Hovic: Christie 48%; Corzine 46%; Daggett 6% (MoE: 2%)
Losers
Ohio Joe: Corzine 49%; Christie 38%; Daggett 11% (MoE: 20%)
Tommy Boy: Corzine 45%; Christie 43%; Daggett 10% (MoE: 10%)
Virginia: McDonnell 59%; Deeds 41%
Winners
Falz: McDonnell 58%; Deeds 41% (MoE: 1%)
David Schmidt: McDonnell 58%; Deeds 42% (MoE: 2%)
Losers
Tommy Boy: McDonnell 54%; Deeds 45% (MoE: 9%)
Pittsburgh Kid: McDonnell 55%; Deeds 45% (MoE: 8%)
Pete from Staten Island: McDonnell 55%; Deeds 45% (MoE: 8%)
NY-23: Owens 49%; Hoffman 45%; Scozzafava 5%
Winners
Evil Conservative: Hoffman 49%; Owens 46%; Scozzafava 5% (MoE: 7%)
Adam: Hoffman 48%; Owens 45%; Scozzafava 6% (MoE: 8%)
Losers
Ohio Joe: Hoffman 54%; Owens 38%; Scozzafava 8% (MoE: 23%)
Tommy Boy: Hoffman 53%; Owens 39%; Scozzafava 7% (MoE: 20%)
As for yours truly…like Meatloaf sang, 2 out of 3 ain’t bad…
Christie 46.3%; Corzine 44.9%; Daggett 8.2% (MoE: 5%)
McDonnell 56.6%; Deeds 43.4% (MoE: 4.8%)
Hoffman 50.7%; Owens 44.9%; Scozzafava 4.4% (MoE: 10.4%)
November 4th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
All Good News for Marco Rubio? Not Exactly
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/11/04/all-good-news-for-marco-rubio-not-exactly.aspx
November 4th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
NY – 23 remains a harrowing victory. It is but the first step in a long battle that will likely culminate next year in a Hoffman victory for the seat in 2010. I applaud Governor Palin’s courageous and brave leadership (Rudy was also on board with Hoffman) and let’s not forget that Governor Palin was instrumental in getting out the vote in VA with her voter drive calls for Bob McDonnell.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
I’m beginning to believe that people really do fear Sarah Palin…But not for what she knows but for the wreckage she leaves behind.
MarK;
your right about politicians wanting to stay at arms length of Palin…..She draws people in before they know what’s happening to them. Pawlenty did join them voluntarily but clearly it was a political move and is getting hit hard by both the left and the right maybe damaging his run for President, Gingrich has spent a week trying to explain why he made the endorsement and has lost a lot of credibility, Huckabee landed on his feet after a few uncomfortable days, and Mitt stayed away seeing it could only end badly.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Palin making unrequested robo-calls for McDonnell campaign
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2009/11/palin_makes_recorded_calls_to.html
http://hrblogs.typepad.com/the_shad_plank/2009/11/palin-making-unrequested-robocalls-for-mcdonnell-campaign-.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/30/AR2009103003778_pf.html
Flashback: Palin Admits Voters Irritated By Campaign Robocalls
October 19, 2008
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/19/palin-admits-voters-irrit_n_136045.html&cp
November 4th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
According to JA Pruce, above, Palin was a plus in Virginia. So what is Ikv’s beef? I have never seen in my many years such an attack frenzy against one person. For those who must attack, try to grow beyond ad hominem attacks, and actually state some facts to back up your conclusions. She is nobody’s fool.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
2/3 of the posts here are hilarious. Here is what Jon Henke (yes the same Jon henke lambasted by Kristofer Lorelli in a post a couple of months ago along with David Frum)
What Did NY-23 Mean?
By Jon Henke
http://thenextright.com/jon-henke/what-did-ny-23-mean#comments
November 4th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Aron,
What’s my award for the hat trick? Can I get another Morton’s steak certificate?
November 4th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
What does vote to share our principles mean anyway. More Palin lingo, I guess.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Who put the n in my name? ha ha.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Next Right types like Henke are allied with REdstate types like Erickson. I can almost see them playing the Jerome Armstrong/Markos Moulitsas of our side. Armstrong is to Markos’s right but they both saw institutional problems with their party and fought to change it.
It’s tough to argue that it didn’t work out for the Armstrong/Moulitsas.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Huckabee & Rubio … rolls off the tongue
Seriously, folks – Last night was ONLY the beginning…
November 4th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
You mean Palin/Rubio ’12
Again, picture this, Huckabee and Palin on separate days schedule appearances at Bush Stadium in St Louis.
Which one draws a capacity crowd?
Need I say more.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
“Ohio Joe: Corzine 49%; Christie 38%; Daggett 11% (MoE: 20%)” Then I reversed the names, other than that I predicted what I predicted.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Regarding Rubio –
“He’s the face and future of the Republican Party,” Mike said today.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
How about Detroit Red Wings style? For your record in futility, you’ve earned a raw octopus.
When I saw you predict just 43% for Christie, I considered betting you another steak that Christie would get over 45%. Would you have accepted?
November 4th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
“Which one draws a capacity crowd?”
Who’s pitching, Jack? ; )
November 4th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Spoken like a true Palm Beach
Al GorePat Buchanan voter.November 4th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
No, I was just being an asshole. :0 I’m willing to offer you another bet coming up in the post-Oprah PPP(D) poll coming up.
But c’mon man, a guy with a sub 40% rating on honesty and trustworthiness wins an election? New Jersey voters must have really hated Corzine and yet, Corzine still blew out Christie among voters whose most important issue was the candidate’s honesty.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Rubio is the face and future of the GOP (not Huckabee who is trying for Rubio’s coattails).
Huckabee is the face and future of the GOP THE DEMS AND MSM WISH FOR.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
In the wake of Tuesday’s elections, what’s the future of the Republican Party – big tent or conservative enclave?
Mike Huckabee, former governor of Arkansas and Republican presidential candidate in 2008, says there’s room in the party even for people like Dede Scozzafava, the liberal Republican who was effectively run out of her House race in New York’s 23rd District by conservatives. The Democrat ended up beating the Conservative candidate there.
“Oh, I think it’s fine to have them in the Republican Party,” Mr. Huckabee told reporters Wednesday at a Monitor breakfast. “It doesn’t mean I have to support all of them equally.”
“The tent could be big, but it shouldn’t have holes in the ceiling and let the rain come through,” he continued. “What we have to be careful of is, we don’t have a party that says, it has to be just like me and nothing but. Can there be people who don’t have my view on the sanctity of life in the Republican Party? Of course. People who have a different view of marriage than I do? Sure they can.
“Can they be Republican? Yes. Will they get my support? No.”
-http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/11/04/huckabee-gop-tent-can-be-big-but-ny-23-was-a-train-wreck/
November 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Huckabee is the one, afterall, who gave us Obama!
November 4th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
As McCain notoriously said — That one.
November 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Palin is proving to be the kiss of death for candidates. If I were kirk, I’d tell her to stay as far away from him as possible. I don’t feel she is a good role model for the Gop, for women or for candidates in general. iF THAT is personal attack, so be it.
Jack, Obama drew huge crowds as well. Need I say more about rock stars getting elected?
November 4th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
If Huckabee said that, he’s the same old, same old, POL — pathetic.
Again, if Huckabee and Palin scheduled appearances on separate days at Bush Stadium in St. Louis, which one would draw a capacity crowd?
Huck = Dems/MSM favorite GOP POTUS nominee!
November 4th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
“I don’t feel she is a good role model for the Gop, for women or for candidates in general.”
Then you are among the overwhelming minority of all adults, let alone likely or registered voters, Republicans, or independents who don’t believe Palin is a good role model for women.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/10/27/rel15k.pdf
November 4th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Knickers, yes, Obama, PRECISELY, you prove my point! (Imagine having a pro-American Obama with substance, that’s Palin)
BTW, meaningless stuff like “kiss of death”, “not a good role model” bla bla bla — meaningless unsubstantiated giberish
November 4th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Jack, my frenzied friend,
How do U know what the “GOP THE DEMS AND MSM WISH FOR.” ???
Hmmm… somethin’ in your post smells funny…
November 4th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
How do I know? You’ve got to be a political neophyte not to know that!
November 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Jack, are you 14? : )
November 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
no
why do you ask?
November 4th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
I would support Sarah or Mitt if they got the nomination.
But, Jack, you are not helping her in ANY manner with your pettiness here.
Jack meet Martha. Martha…Jack lol
November 4th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Huck Iowa etc.–
it would be helpful if you stayed on topic
November 4th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
BTW, if Romney ultimately got the nomination, I’d vote for him too — so what’s the point?
November 4th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
The topic is: Winners and Losers…
Unite the Party or lose, my friend.
November 4th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Or better, in your case…
GROW UP!
November 4th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Huck Iowa, if the aim was really “unite the party” the poster of this thread would not have posted a “winners and losers” thread on NY-23;
but the poster of this thread is more concerned with jumping up and down on Palin (his so-called ‘loser’ out of NY-23).
November 4th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
We didn’t lose because of Palin, we lost because of the Republicans…plain and simple. The Republicans refused to run a republican. A registered republican ran 3rd party, the rnc spent a million dollars to trash him. Dede, the supposed republican, dropped out of the race and endorsed the democrat. What is so difficult to understand? I guess a person shouldn’t run for another party when they don’t believe in the candidate their own party put forth? I guess Lieberman shouldn’t have run as an independent when the democrats screwed him? This board is really starting to get PDS.
November 4th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Gee, Jersey. You’re going to spoil all these pundit’s fun. What do you think you’re doing, bringing reason and honesty to the party! LOL!
November 4th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
But, you’re absolutely right. Honesty just doesn’t “spin” well.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
““Ohio Joe: Corzine 49%; Christie 38%; Daggett 11% (MoE: 20%)” Then I reversed the names, other than that I predicted what I predicted.” You conveniently forgot to post my NY prediction on October 30th:
http://race42008.com/2009/10/30/poll-watch-dailykosresearch-2000-2009-virginia-governor-poll/trackback/
November 4th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Thanks Audi. I just don’t get the logic of some of these people. I take that back, I actually do get it, it is born from their own fears about Romney’s candidacy and what a successful Palin could do to quell Romney’s chances. I still ask why intentionally spread Liberal and MSM talking points about one of our own candidates?
November 4th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
“I still ask why intentionally spread Liberal and MSM talking points about one of our own candidates?” Yeah, it is hilarious that the Romneyites pound their chests and say “Oh what good Conservatives are we.” They then turn around and use liberal talking points. Kind of like standing on one’s head and telling the world that it is upside down. In their world, everybody is wrong, but Mr. Romney.
November 4th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Ohio, haha, I think their heads may be upside down.
November 4th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Palin is finding her voice within the GOP. She is what a consider a “sniper”. She’s hiding behind the scenes and attacking the opposition with full force and in an unexpected manner. She’s great at what she is doing, but I do not think that warrants her the nomination for POTUS. She got massively chewed up and spit out before and after the election, and failed to withstand the attacks to the point that she had to step down from her position as Governor of Alaska. Can we just be grateful that we do have someone like Palin in the party in her current position without having to insist on exhalting her to a position that will cause our party to lose in a landslide?
November 4th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Joe,
So, we should disregard your final predictions made early yesterday morning?
http://race42008.com/2009/11/02/state-of-the-race-under-24-hours-to-go-plus-rasmussen-nj-prediction-thread/#comment-621712
November 5th, 2009 at 3:08 am
#346
Perception from liberals and Democrats
“On December 11, 2007 the Drudge Report found out that the highest levels of the Democratic Party told their officials to avoid any criticism of 2008 Republican presidential contender Mike Huckabee, until he would secure the nomination. One Democrat said “He’ll easily be their McGovern, an easy kill.” The last time the Democratic National Committee criticized Huckabee was on March 2nd, 2007.[54]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Mike_Huckabee
November 5th, 2009 at 5:12 am
“Joe,
So, we should disregard your final predictions made early yesterday morning?” At the end the day, I guess you regard or disregard as you will. You can note that my predictions on the other 3 races were similar (while not exact) in my previous prediction and I stand by those 3 in the sense that I made what I made.
November 5th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Shelby,
Democrats only said that because they’re a bunch of intolerant bigots and they think others think the same way as them. They think if someone gets labeled a “Christian” then they have no chance of winning. People don’t care what your religion is. They care if you can manage the economy, appoint good judges, take care of the country, etc. Huckabee could easily beat Obama given the right circumstances. So could Romney. Palin would have a tougher time of it, but it would be possible.
I think we should learn an important lessons before the 2012 primaries start. We should be more cordial towards one another. Someone is going to win the nomination regardless. We should support whoever it is. I didn’t support McCain in the primary, but I fully supported him in the general. So, we should keep the target on Obama, not competing Republicans in the primary.
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 am
[...] From George Romney’s biography about his actions at and after the 1964 convention: “As the convention concluded, Romney neither endorsed nor repudiated Goldwater and vice presidential nominee William E. Miller, saying he had reservations about Goldwater …. Rush accounces that Palin is ready to be POTUS to Chris Wallace . He is boycotting everything Romney says and does and refusing the even acknowledge him. That is not smart, nor the way to get this party on track. …Continue Reading [...]