Partial PPP NY-23 Poll Has Hoffman Leading Big

October 31, 2009

Partial PPP NY-23 Poll Has Hoffman Leading Big

Public Policy Polling has tweeted the following:

“With about 200 interviews down we had Hoffman 45 Owens 26 Scozzafava 17…her withdrawal will just make it that much easier for Hoffman”

Our NY-23 polling odyssey so far today: http://tinyurl.com/ykjlzwl

Things continue to look good for Hoffman with little time left for Owens to steal momentum.

by David Schmidt @ 1:14 pm. Filed under 2009 Elections

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73 Responses to “Partial PPP NY-23 Poll Has Hoffman Leading Big”

Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 1:20 pm
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2009/10/ny-23-polling-odyssey.html

So this morning around 10 AM I started up our NY-23 poll and after a few hundred interviews it appeared that Doug Hoffman was now running away with it-unweighted numbers showed him at 45% to 26% for Bill Owens and 17% for Dede Scozzafava.

Then came the news that Scozzafava was suspending her campaign. My first inclination was to just keep running the poll as is, but I stopped it and thought about it, and now for the rest of the weekend the first question will still provide Scozzafava as an option but also note that she’s suspended her campaign, although her name will still be on the ballot.

I’m not going to throw away the first set of interviews, but we’ll provide a crosstab for when people got surveyed. I expect Hoffman will win easily now, but if our early numbers were any indication what Scozzafava did doesn’t make much difference- he was going to win easily with or without her in the race.

I should also note that the poll included two way races between all three of the candidates as well so we will have full straight up Owens-Hoffman data for whatever that’s worth.

More excitement so far today than I might have been anticipating!
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 1:23 pm
NY-23 Siena Poll Bad News for OwensBy Charles Franklin
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/ny23_siena_poll_bad_news_for_o.php#comments

This is a quick note on the new Siena poll in light of Scozzafava dropping out.

Can Owens pick up from Scozzafava supporters? Not so likely given these poll results.

Owens Fav/Unfav among Scozzafava suppporters: 19/50
Hoffman Fav/Unfav among Scozzafava supporters: 15/57

Looks like a wash with many likely to skip the choice of two disliked alternatives.

And the worse news for Owens is among independents:

Ind. Fav/Unfav Owens: 39/47
Ind. Fav/Unfav Hoffman: 47/33
Ariel Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 1:26 pm
PPP is a great polling institute and I am surprised they would reveal those results since a poll of 200 people is worthless.
Aron Goldman Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 1:32 pm
The margin of error on a sample of 200 for NY-23 is ~ +/- 7 percentage points.

TB,

ICYMI…

http://race42008.com/2009/10/31/poll-watch-siena-new-york-23rd-congressional-district-survey/#comment-619028

Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava’s decision not to endorse either of her opponents after suspending her bid for ex-Rep. John McHugh’s seat was a tactical move made in concert with Conservative candidate Doug Hoffman’s campaign, a source close to Scozzafava confirmed.

There was some concern that supporters of Scozzafava’s more moderate brand of Republicanism would be so turned off if she publicly announced an endorsement of the man who has been hammering her as a Pelosi-esque liberal that it would them into the arms of Democratic nominee Bill Owens.

Undoubtedly, some hard-core Scozzafava backers will remain in her camp no matter what and vote for her regardless of her decision. These people would probably vote for Owens and not Hoffman if she wasn’t still on the ballot, so that could hurt the Democrats.

Also, if Hoffman were to accept Scozzafava’s endorsement after so harshly criticizing her all these weeks, it might upset his supporters on the right.

Hence, the less-than-generous statement Hoffman released in response to the news that Scozzafava was ending her campaign, which makes no mention of her at all. Owens, on the other hand, couldn’t praise Scozzafava enough in his statement, saying:

”Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava has been an honorable public servant for years now and I have a tremendous amount of respect for her and her commitment to her principles. While we disagree on certain issues, we share a dedication to serving the best interests of Upstate New York and the Obama administration’s efforts to get our economy back on track. Those interests will always be my highest priority.”

Clearly, Owens is hoping some Scozzafava voters will pull the lever for him on Row A – or Row E, the WFP line – on Tuesday. He also slammed Hoffman and his “Club for Growth extremist agenda.”
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Aron,

There’s a lot of money available for those who do not think Hoffman has won this race over at Intrade.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 1:49 pm
REPUBLICANS CATCH A BIG BREAK IN NEW YORK 23
By Chuck Todd
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/10/31/2115616.aspx

Her exit leaves Conservative Party nominee Doug Hoffman, who had garnered plenty of national GOP support, as the favorite to win what was a hotly-contested 3-way race….

Hoffman’s rise has been thanks to a combination of conservatives and independents who apparently have been attracted by Hoffman’s anti-Washington and anti-party establishment message. It’s still an open question among some Republicans about whether Hoffman could have been as successful as the actual Republican nominee; running as an outsider has been a BIG benefit to his bid….

Democrats have spent over a million dollars on Owens’ behalf but, of late, have been busy reminding reporters of the district’s long Republican history. VP Biden is due in the district Monday in an attempt to rally the Democratic base but the math may change a tad now with Scozzafava’s exit.
Aron Goldman Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Mark Ambinder’s take:

Where do the rest of her votes go? CW says that most go to Hoffman, but I’m with Jonathan Martin: I think half go to Democrat Bill Owens or they stay home. GOP registration exceeds Democratic registration by nearly 50,000. This is a Republican district that is likely to remain Republican, — only significantly more conservative than it’s been.

Hoffman has harnessed several shoots of energy, including anti-incumbent sentiment, conservative opposition to liberal Republicans, and the iatropic excitement that’s generated when conservative activists suddenly coalesce around a candidate.

Republicans will derive two lessons from the results of this race. One is that the activist base of the party is becoming increasingly powerful in the one area that had eluded them: candidate selection. Other conservative Republicans may now feel more comfortable if they decide to challenge incumbents in primaries. Democrats, believing that Republicans will conservatize-themselves to death demographically, will take this as a positive trend for the long-term. The second lesson is that populist, regular guy candidates win in supposedly “moderate” districts.

The race had become a proxy for debates about the future of the party. Since the situation in NY 23 is so unusual, it may be folly to squeeze out more meaning than’s already present.

Tea Party Express jubilant as Scozzafava exits in NY-23
Scozzafava’s departure is a blow to the establishment GOP. But the latest development in upstate New York’s special congressional race also means ‘outsiders’ clearly are viable in US politics.
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/10/31/tea-party-express-jubilant-as-scozzafava-exits-in-ny-23/

Hoffman drawing fire from DCCC
Doug Hoffman and Friends: Sending Our Jobs Overseas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSJyHT_A-Cc
Chip Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Well we have VA and NY-23 locked. Now all we have to do is get NJ.
MetroIndependent Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
As a libertarian who supports the Club for Growth, I’m happy to see economic moderates primaried by economic conservatives.

However, when Hoffman began rising, I checked out his website. His critique of Dede? That she voted for gay marriage 3 times.

I’d love to see Hoffman win if his argument had been the Club for Growth’s argument.

But it wasn’t, and I have no desire to see religious conservatives increase their grip on the GOP.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Lonegan’s pollster says Christie’s surging
http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2009/10/im_not_betting_any_six-packs_o.html

“Christie will win by at least 10,” Shaftan predicted.

It’s not that Christie is running a good campaign but that “Corzine’s running a worse campaign,” said Shaftan.

“He’s managed to turn Chris Christie into Steve Lonegan,” said Shaftan. “Christie’s fastest growing favorable is that he’s pro-life. But his biggest favorable is that he’s not Corzine.”

It’s been Corzine’s ads that have been helping Christie by pointing out his pro-life and pro-gun stands, said Shaftan. That has convinced right-leaning voters to hold their noses and vote for Christie, he said.

If Lonegan had been the candidate, Shaftan said, he’d be winning by at least the same margin.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Shaftan will look like a genius if the PPP(D) result holds up:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/conservative-pollster-puts-hoffman-ahead-in-ny-23.php

Neighborhood Research head Rick Shaftan told TPM: “She’s [Scozzafava] going to end up in single digits and Hoffman is going to top 50%.”
Aron Goldman Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Ayotte backs conservative in NY-23
Friday, October 30 2009 04:17 PM

Not ceding ground to potential primary challengers, Republican U.S. Senate candidate Kelly Ayotte has endorsed the Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman in a high-profile special House election in Upstate New York.

“As I travel across our state on the campaign trail, I have said we must stand up for fiscal sanity in Washington, we must have pro-growth economic policies that will create jobs,” Ayotte said in a statement to NHPoliticalReport.com. “Because of that, I endorse Doug Hoffman.”

Earlier in the day, this site reported that Ayotte’s primary rival Ovide Lamontagne said he gave Hoffman a check.

http://nhpoliticalreport.com/component/content/article/8-for-granite/781-ayotte-backs-conservative-in-ny-23
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 3:33 pm
LOL, Strategic Vision is back!

Christie: 49%
Corzine: 39%
Daggett: 6%
Undecided: 6%

http://www.strategicvision.biz/political/newjersey_poll_103109.htm
Eric Dondero Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 3:43 pm
BREAKING NEWS!!!

Bigger news is just breaking out of New Jersey. It’s of Earthquake proportions.

CORZINE STAFFER BUSTED FOR DRUG POSSESSION IN FRONT OF HIGH SCHOOL.

Rented Car by the Campaign. Had scores of tickets to Obama event in Car.
lkv Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:07 pm
This is only the beginning folks, I can’t be the only one that see’s NY-23 as setting a dangerous precedent…I say this as a Conservative Republican…

Do we really want the Club for Growth, Red State, Rush and Beck to pick our Candidates or am I missing something?
Jonathan Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Mike Huckabee has endorsed Doug Hoffman:

http://www.huckpac.com/?Fuseaction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=2876
Aron Goldman Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Hoffman worries some incumbents
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/65729-hoffman-worries-some-incumbents

The ascendance of the Conservative Party nominee in a New York special election suggests that some centrist candidates may be at risk to conservative challengers, strategists and members of Congress said this weekend.

“Conservatives will be energized to take back the Republican Party and moderates will be looking over their shoulders for the next year,” said Brian Darling, director of Senate relations at the Heritage Foundation. “Moderate incumbents worried about the next election may have to tack to the right to avoid a primary battle.”

“It clearly means populist conservatism is ascendant,” said Craig Shirley, a Republican consultant and author of Rendevous with Destiny, a new biography of Ronald Reagan. Shirley said some Republicans should “say gentle prayers tonight” and purchase a new copy of Barry Goldwater’s Conscience of a Conservative.

John Yob, a Republican strategist in Michigan, cited former Florida House speaker Marco Rubio (R), an insurgent conservative who has made the national party’s favored candidate, Gov. Charlie Crist (R).

“We are likely to see challenges across the country with more conservative candidates invigorated by Hoffman and the rise of Rubio,” Yob said.

One Republican congressman, who asked not to be named discussing party dynamics, said without Hoffman’s rise, conservatives may have turned their fire on their own party’s incumbents. The conservative movement, the congressman said, is “trumping” the rest of the party.

“Because Hoffman is not aligned with any major party, he is a fresh face for these independent conservatives, while Scozzafava epitomizes everything that is wrong with the Republican establishment,” said Chris Perkins, a GOP pollster.

That means that Republicans who argue centrist candidates are the only ones who can win in the Northeast are still a minority in the party.

“The first battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party during the rule of President Obama was won by the conservatives. This is a sign that conservatives can beat back moderates who argue that only liberal party members can win in the Northeast,” Darling said. Support for Hoffman from several leading presidential contenders “evidences a shift in the leaders of the Republican Party to support the conservative candidate, even when that candidate is not the Republican nominee.”

“Now is the time for Republicans to realize that returning to our principles of smaller government, lower taxes, traditional values and more freedom is not only the right thing to do, it will pay huge dividends at the ballot box,” added Sean Noble, a GOP consultant in Arizona. “If party leaders had half a brain they’d jump out in front of this mob and call it a parade.”
Aron Goldman Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
GOP chances hiked by nominee’s exit
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/65733-gop-chances-boosted-by-exit

The 11th hour exit of the Republican nominee in a closely watched New York House race has boosted the GOP’s chances of holding the seat, while also raising questions about the Republican leaders’ ability to harness the conservative fervor mounting in the Republican base.

Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman has said he will caucus with Republicans if he wins the special election next Tuesday, maintaining a vote against President Barack Obama’s healthcare plan and the rest of the Democratic agenda.

But Republican leaders had to scramble Saturday to shift their support from Dede Scozzafava, the far more liberal nominee chosen by a GOP committee as the candidate to replace Republican Rep. John McHugh in the upstate New York district.

“They’ve got egg all over their face. They bollixed this,” said University of Virginia political scientist Larry Sabato. “They didn’t understand the anger from their base and her positions.”

But Sabato cautioned against the idea that this was the beginning of a Tea Party takeover of the Republican Party. In a reminder that all politics are local, he said voters in the district were resentful of Scozzafava’s selection by a small party committee.

“This was a tiny little party committee meeting in a backroom,” Sabato said. “People don’t like that.”

Hoffman would seem to have the advantage. The conventional wisdom says the Republican nominee’s supporters will be siding with the conservative. And the sudden boost of publicity could give Hoffman momentum going into the last three days of the campaign.

But Scozzafava’s name will remain on the ballot. And polling analyst Nate Silver of the FiveThirtyEight blog noted that crosstabs of the Siena poll widely credited with Scozzafava’s exit show her supporters don’t like Hoffman or Owens. It also shows her supporters have a favorable view of Obama by 64-31.
Chip Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:34 pm
#15: After Lieberman vs. Lamont did Democrats start challenging every Democrats who voted for the war? What about Bernie Sanders, do democrats run sombody from the Socialist party in every election? It’s a good thing Doug Hoffman will be elected.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:35 pm
http://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/5322659936

Are Democrats more into Halloween than Republicans? Good news for the GOP on all of our polls today
Chip Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:37 pm
#13: The link to that poll is not working.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Chip,

I recognize that. It was up earlier.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Blumenthal reads the last rites for Owens:

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/re_ny23_siena_poll_bad_news_fo.php
OHIO JOE Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:00 pm
“I think half go to Democrat Bill Owens or they stay home.” Fine, we still win.

“Mike Huckabee has endorsed Doug Hoffman:” Well then, that just leaves the other M

“Do we really want the Club for Growth, Red State, Rush and Beck to pick our Candidates or am I missing something?” Either that or the Wacko Socialist wing of our party. Take your pick.
Win M. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:05 pm
“Either that or the Wacko Socialist wing of our party. Take your pick.”

You think there’s a “wacko socialist” wing of the Republican party? There’s my laugh for the day.
Aron Goldman Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:06 pm
CORZINE STAFFER BUSTED FOR DRUG POSSESSION IN FRONT OF HIGH SCHOOL.

Eric,

The New York Post and ABC have taken the story down.

Corzine campaign staffer arrested on drug charges
http://www.nypost.com/Error/PageNotFound;jsessionid=0EDF99CC6DDDEFCC5D67C993D87C6691

Corzine campaign worker arrested
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/politics&id=7093019

However, the story still appears on the New Jersey newpapers’ sites…

Paramus man claiming to work for Corzine arrested on drug charges
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/paramus_man_claming_to_work_fo.html
http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/Paramus_man_claiming_to_work_for_Corzine_arrested_on_drug_charges.html

A Paramus man claiming to work for Gov. Jon Corzine’s reelection campaign was arrested Friday night on drug charges after police found Ecstasy tablets in his car, authorities said.

A Corzine spokeswoman said the man does not work for either the governor’s campaign or the Democratic State Committee.

Jason Shih, 25, was pulled over on Route 17 by East Rutherford police at about 11:30 p.m. last night for talking on his cell phone. Police found 19 Ecstasy tablets and hundreds of small glassine bags used for distributing drugs, police spokesman Capt. William Schanel said.

Schanel said Shih told police he was an official in Corzine’s campaign, and several tickets to tomorrow’s rally with President Obama at Newark’s Prudential Center were found in his car.

“As he’s exiting the vehicle, he’s stating it’s not mine,” Schanel said. “He just said I’m assistant deputy director of Gov. Corzine’s campaign, and they rented this vehicle for my use.”

OpenSecrets.org: Jason Shih
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:FSxRMOybe7QJ:www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenddetail.php%3Fcycle%3D2006%26cmte%3DC00104471%26name%3DShih%252C%2BJason+Shih,+Jason,+Paramus,+NJ+%24420+Field+Consulting+Services+11/03/06&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Bob Hovic Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Wow — how dumb is it to talk on a cell phone while driving a car with drugs in it? I guess that’s why they call it dope.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:19 pm
http://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/5323415253

We find negative approval for Obama in NY-23…
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:31 pm
http://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/5324147912

Hoffman has polled consistently at 45-46% all day, Owens up a little since Scozzafava dropout but still doesn’t look close
Knickers in a twist. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:46 pm
IN this one, Dede S showed what the RNC lacks – class. I hope the DNC pulls this one off. Would be kinda funny, don’tcha think?
alaska jake Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Aron’s link to Dem Committee expenditures shows Jason Shih received $420 for services. Ironic.
Knickers in a twist. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 5:47 pm
IKV. I totally agree with you. This is setting a very, very bad standard. We have now been taken over by the far right nut cases in this party. Completly and totally.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Finish the Job in NY-23
By Marco Rubio
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjljMTM0MTAwOTI3MTk1YzdkZTg1ZGVmN2I2ZTU3ZTQ=

Today’s developments in New York’s 23rd Congressional District should send an encouraging message to conservatives everywhere. It is not only right and necessary to stand up for our principles, it is also an appealing strategy to Americans yearning for less government and more fiscal restraint in Washington.

While there are still four grueling days of work left, it is clear candidates willing to stand up for conservative beliefs will not face a lonely journey on the campaign trail.

For conservatives who still don’t believe we can be true to our principles and win elections, I hope NY-23 serves as a wake-up call. It’s time for them to join their fellow Republicans on the front lines to deliver a victory on Tuesday.
Ariel Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Knickers in a twist, I actually agree with you. I am pulling for Owens. Hoffman is a debate-ducking coward carpetbagger who entered the race just after congratulating Dede on beating him for the Republican nomination. He knows nothing about the district’s issues and is only in this race because a bunch of angry people are looking to send a message.
MarkG Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I hope the DNC pulls this one off. Would be kinda funny, don’tcha think?

Um, yeah… Kinda like the hilarity that ensues when your doctor inadvertently reads the wrong chart and amputates your left arm instead of removing your ruptured appendix.

Some folks have a unique sense of humor that defies description.
Bob Hovic Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Knickers in a twist, I actually agree with you.

Gee, what a surprise — two Obama supporters agreeing that they’d like to see the Democrat win.
Ariel Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 6:51 pm
#26- Huh? I admit that I am more moderate than most of the people here, but I voted for McCain.
Ariel Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 6:51 pm
#36*
anonymous Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 7:05 pm
I read an article that Huckabee has endorsed Mr. Hoffman from the HuckPac. I have to say again that Huckabee won’t get the nominee in 2012. He is done! My husband said he wouldn’t support Huckabee and Mitt Romney. They both are the liberal Democrat or the Rockefeller Republican. Mitt Romney doesn’t believe in the U.S. Constitution. I am proud to see the Tea Party are really working hard to bring our country and freedom back.
Bob Hovic Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Ariel: “I voted for McCain.”

LOL. Given the positions you have espoused here, I would say that if you voted for McCain, it was a very serious error on your part.

Far more likely is that you are doing the standard troll routine we’ve seen so often here, which begins: “As a lifelong Republican …”
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 7:11 pm
A Time to Unite
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=164244658434

I want to personally thank Republican Dede Scozzafava for acting so selflessly today in the NY District 23 race. Now it’s time to cross the finish line with Doug Hoffman so that he can get to work for District 23 and the rest of America.

With Congress poised to overhaul one-sixth of our economy with so-called health care “reform” (which is really a government takeover of health care) and with plans to enact a cap-and-tax bill just as our economy struggles to recover, Doug Hoffman will be a voice for fiscal responsibility and common sense in Washington.

We need candidates like Doug now more than ever. In these final days of the campaign, it’s vital that Doug continue to receive the enthusiastic support of those who want to bring common sense to Washington. Let’s help make it happen! You can help Doug by visiting his official website today and offering your support…

- Sarah Palin
OHIO JOE Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 9:01 pm
““Either that or the Wacko Socialist wing of our party. Take your pick.”

You think there’s a “wacko socialist” wing of the Republican party? There’s my laugh for the day.” You guys have proven my point, whether it is the ACORN Queen or the Dem, Mr. Owens, a few of you stupid bitter clowns are hellbent on defeat Mr. Hoffman any freaking way you can. It would be all well and fine if you wackos supported a truly moderate Republican, but you back a Socialist Republican and you she dropped out you guys back the Dem out of bitterness. We do not need you clowns; bye! Even Mr. Gingrich was man enough to admit he was wrong.

Bob said it best: “Knickers in a twist, I actually agree with you.

Gee, what a surprise — two Obama supporters agreeing that they’d like to see the Democrat win.”
Aron Goldman Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Week In Politics Examined
Political commentators E.J. Dionne, of The Washington Post, and David Brooks, of The New York Times, offer their insight.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114330822

SIEGEL: David, what do you find of interest in these elections?

Mr. BROOKS: Well, I’m looking at the House race in upstate New York, in New York 23, where you’ve got a moderate Republican named Dede Scozzafava, who’s running not only against a Democrat, but running against a third-party, more conservative candidate, a guy named, Doug Hoffman, who is a – who was a favorite of the tea parties of the Rush Limbaugh-types and increasingly of a lot of people who want to run for president for the Republican nomination, including surprisingly Tim Pawlenty, the Minnesota governor. And basically, this is a race for the soul of the Republican Party. Scozzafava has a voting record which puts her at the exact middle of the political spectrum. And the question is: Can Republicans have a centrist and still be a Republican? Newt Gingrich thinks so. He thinks you need moderate Republicans. A lot of Republicans apparently don’t think so. And so she’s in real trouble.

SIEGEL: This is a race that Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have talked about it -they don’t see her as being centrist. They see her as a liberal.

Mr. BROOKS: Well, maybe from their point of view, but people have actually done voting analyses of her voting record and it’s almost exactly in the center of the national spectrum. In New York state, it’s probably a little right of center. And so, really it’s an attempt to define the Republican Party as almost a permanent minority party. It’s a narrow casting of the Republican Party. Newt Gingrich is on the right side, a lot of people are not.

Mr. DIONNE: I basically agree with David on this. I think it’s a fascinating race because of the national import and the – some of the more moderate Republicans up there are trying to gain some traction for Scozzafava by saying, look, these are national guys coming in using our district to make a national point. But that doesn’t seem to be a working. And right now, Doug Hoffman, the conservative, is closing the gap with the Democrat, Bill Owens. Owens hoped to win on this Republican split.

The paradox, I think, is if Hoffman wins, conservatives will hail it as a great victory. But I think it’ll send exactly the wrong signal to the Republican Party. What you’ve got – the right signal is McDonnell, the right-winger who’s moved to the center in order to win. And if they take out of this that tea-partyism(ph) is the way of the future, I think it’ll be a long-term problem for the Republicans.

SIEGEL: Well, in the not so long term, but near term for the Republican Party, 2010, David, would you expect to see lots of conservative challengers of any Republican who would mention the center as a desirable place to be?

Mr. BROOKS: It seems that. I mean, there will be a strong reaction against Barack Obama in it. And there will be a temptation ago further and further to the right, which will – may pay off in the short term. There is a reaction against Obama in the country. If you look at the number of the people who call themselves conservatives – all-time high. Public opinion is clearly shifting to the right in reaction against Obama. It’s a short-term gain and out of 2010, the victories they do pick up will probably, and I agree with E.J., send the wrong message nationally when you get a younger electorate, a more representative electorate than you get in a midterm.

Mr. DIONNE: You know, I was looking at some numbers this morning. And yes, this Gallup number shows a slight shift toward the conservative side in the ideological question that they ask, but it wasn’t a big shift. But what I was struck by is a really sharp divide between opinion in the South and opinion in the rest of the country. And I think that the south really has turned – the white South, obviously – has turned negative on Obama. And I think when we analyze 2010, we’re going to have to look at, you know, Southern Democrats are probably going to be in some trouble. But outside a few states, the democratic numbers and the Obama numbers are holding up pretty well in the rest of country.

Mr. BROOKS: Yeah, I would say on issues, on abortion, there’s been a significant shift to the right, on gun ownership, on attitude toward business, on hostility to labor unions. There’s been this interesting phenomenon where people are reacting against the Obama administration. Not only on party ID – in fact, not on party idea. Conservativism would be doing great except for the Republic Party. And that’s essentially it’s problem. But there is a conservative tie.

David Brooks and Mark Shields discuss NY-23
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec09/shieldsbrooks_10-30.html

DAVID BROOKS: Could I just ask — talk about the New York race? Because I think that’s the one…a huge impact. We have got a moderate Republican, Dede Scozzafava, who is running against really a conservative tea party guy named Doug Hoffman. A lot of Republicans, like Rush Limbaugh and even Tim Pawlenty from Minnesota have gone off for Hoffman. I think…Sarah Palin. I think it is a suicide pact for the Republican Party, essentially taking a moderate Republican, dead-center in American politics, and saying, sorry, you are too liberal. That’s crazy.

MARK SHIELDS: Only in a Republican fight, Jim, could Dede Scozzafava, who has the endorsement of the National Rifle Association, was for the Bush tax cuts, was against the Obama medical care, only in a Republican fight could she be accused of being a Castroite, which is what the charge is against her.
OHIO JOE Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 9:24 pm
“I think it is a suicide pact for the Republican Party, essentially taking a moderate Republican, dead-center in American politics, and saying, sorry, you are too liberal. That’s crazy.” Wrong; true moderates are welcome in the party, but these clown truly are liberal tax and spend socialists. We do not need them. They are free to start their own third party if they hate capitalism and Conservatism so much.
Aron Goldman Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 9:37 pm
The G.O.P. Stalinists Invade Upstate New York
By Frank Rich
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/opinion/01rich.html?pagewanted=print

Barack Obama’s most devilish political move since the 2008 campaign was to appoint a Republican congressman from upstate New York as secretary of the Army. This week’s election to fill that vacant seat has set off nothing less than a riotous and bloody national G.O.P. civil war. No matter what the results in that race on Tuesday, the Republicans are the sure losers. This could be a gift that keeps on giving to the Democrats through 2010, and perhaps beyond.

That this pastoral setting could become a G.O.P. killing field, attracting an all-star cast of combatants led by Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, William Kristol and Newt Gingrich, is a premise out of a Depression-era screwball comedy. But such farces have become the norm for the conservative movement — whether the participants are dressing up in full “tea party” drag or not.

The battle for upstate New York confirms just how swiftly the right has devolved into a wacky, paranoid cult that is as eager to eat its own as it is to destroy Obama. The movement’s undisputed leaders, Palin and Beck, neither of whom have what Palin once called the “actual responsibilities” of public office, would gladly see the Republican Party die on the cross of right-wing ideological purity. Over the short term, at least, their wish could come true.

The New York fracas was ignited by the routine decision of 11 local Republican county chairmen to anoint an assemblywoman, Dede Scozzafava, as their party’s nominee for the vacant seat. The 23rd is in safe Republican territory that hasn’t sent a Democrat to Congress in decades. And Scozzafava is a mainstream conservative by New York standards; one statistical measure found her voting record slightly to the right of her fellow Republicans in the Assembly. But she has occasionally strayed from orthodoxy on social issues (abortion, same-sex marriage) and endorsed the Obama stimulus package. To the right’s Jacobins, that’s cause to send her to the guillotine.

Sure enough, bloggers trashed her as a radical leftist and ditched her for a third-party candidate they deem a “true” conservative, an accountant and businessman named Doug Hoffman. When Gingrich dared endorse Scozzafava anyway — as did other party potentates like John Boehner and Michael Steele — he too was slimed.

The wrecking crew of Kristol, Fred Thompson, Dick Armey, Michele Bachmann, The Wall Street Journal editorial page and the government-bashing Club for Growth all joined the Hoffman putsch. Then came the big enchilada: a Hoffman endorsement from Palin on her Facebook page. Such is Palin’s clout that Steve Forbes, Rick Santorum and Tim Pawlenty, the Minnesota governor (and presidential aspirant), promptly fell over one another in their Pavlovian rush to second her motion. They were joined by far-flung Republican congressmen from Kansas, Georgia, Oklahoma and California, not to mention a gaggle of state legislators from Colorado. On Fox News, Beck took up the charge, insinuating that Hoffman’s Republican opponent might be a fan of Karl Marx. Some $3 million has now been dumped into this race by outside groups.

Who exactly is the third-party maverick arousing such ardor? Hoffman doesn’t even live in the district. When he appeared before the editorial board of The Watertown Daily Times 10 days ago, he “showed no grasp” of local issues, as the subsequent editorial put it. Hoffman complained that he should have received the questions in advance — blissfully unaware that they had been asked by the paper in an editorial on the morning of his visit.

Last week it turned out that Hoffman’s prime attribute to the radical right — as a take-no-prisoners fiscal conservative — was bogus. In fact he’s on the finance committee of a hospital that happily helped itself to a $479,000 federal earmark. Then again, without the federal government largess that the tea party crowd so deplores, New York’s 23rd would be a Siberia of joblessness. The biggest local employer is the pork-dependent military base, Fort Drum.

The right’s embrace of Hoffman is a double-barreled suicide for the G.O.P. On Saturday, the battered Scozzafava suspended her campaign, further scrambling the race. It’s still conceivable that the Democratic candidate could capture a seat the Republicans should own. But it’s even better for Democrats if Hoffman wins. Punch-drunk with this triumph, the right will redouble its support of primary challengers to 2010 G.O.P. candidates they regard as impure. That’s bad news for even a Republican as conservative as Kay Bailey Hutchison, whose primary opponent in the Texas governor’s race, the incumbent Rick Perry, floated the possibility of secession at a teabagger rally in April and hastily endorsed Hoffman on Thursday.

The more rightists who win G.O.P. primaries, the greater the Democrats’ prospects next year. But the electoral math is less interesting than the pathology of this movement. Its antecedent can be found in the early 1960s, when radical-right hysteria carried some of the same traits we’re seeing now: seething rage, fear of minorities, maniacal contempt for government, and a Freudian tendency to mimic the excesses of political foes. Writing in 1964 of that era’s equivalent to today’s tea party cells, the historian Richard Hofstadter observed that the John Birch Society’s “ruthless prosecution” of its own ideological war often mimicked the tactics of its Communist enemies.

The same could be said of Beck, Palin and their acolytes. Though they constantly liken the president to various totalitarian dictators, it is they who are re-enacting Stalinism in full purge mode. They drove out Arlen Specter, and now want to “melt Snowe” (as the blog Red State put it). The same Republicans who once deplored Democrats for refusing to let an anti-abortion dissident, Gov. Robert Casey of Pennsylvania, speak at the 1992 Clinton convention now routinely banish any dissenters in their own camp.

These conservatives’ whiny cries of victimization also parrot a tic they once condemned in liberals. After Rush Limbaugh was booted from an ownership group bidding on the St. Louis Rams, he moaned about being done in by the “race card.” What actually did him in, of course, was the free-market American capitalism he claims to champion. Limbaugh didn’t understand that in an increasingly diverse nation, profit-seeking N.F.L. franchises actually want to court black ticket buyers, not drive them away.

This same note of self-martyrdom was sounded in a much-noticed recent column by the former Nixon hand Pat Buchanan. Ol’ Pat sounded like the dispossessed antebellum grandees in “Gone With the Wind” when lamenting the plight of white working-class voters. “America was once their country,” he wrote. “They sense they are losing it. And they are right.”

They are right. That America was lost years ago, and no national political party can thrive if it lives in denial of that truth. The right still may want to believe, as Palin said during the campaign, that Alaska, with its small black and Hispanic populations, is a “microcosm of America.” (New York’s 23rd also has few blacks or Hispanics.) But most Americans like their country’s 21st-century profile.

That changing complexion is part of why the McCain-Palin ticket lost every demographic group by large margins in 2008 except white senior citizens and the dwindling fifth of America that’s still rural. It’s also why the G.O.P. has been in a nosedive since the inauguration, whatever Obama’s ups and downs. In the latest Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll, only 17 percent of Americans identify themselves as Republicans (as opposed to 30 percent for the Democrats, and 44 for independents).

No wonder even the very conservative Republican contenders in the two big gubernatorial contests this week have frantically tried to disguise their own convictions. The candidate in Virginia, Bob McDonnell, is a graduate of Pat Robertson’s university whose career has been devoted to curbing abortion rights, gay civil rights and even birth control. But in this campaign he ditched those issues, disinvited Palin for a campaign appearance, praised Obama’s Nobel Prize, and ran a closing campaign ad trumpeting “Hope.” Chris Christie, McDonnell’s counterpart in New Jersey, posted a campaign video celebrating “Change” in which Obama’s face and most stirring campaign sound bites so dominate you’d think the president had endorsed the Republican over his Democratic opponent, Jon Corzine.

Only in the alternative universe of the far right is Obama a pariah and Palin the great white hope. It’s become a Beltway truism that the White House’s (mild) spat with Fox News is counterproductive because it drives up the network’s numbers. But if curious moderate and independent voters are now tempted to surf there and encounter Beck’s histrionics for the first time, the president’s numbers will benefit as well. To the uninitiated, the tea party crowd comes across like the barflies in “Star Wars.”
Jonathan Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Sigh… well, no use crying over spilled milk. On November 3rd, every Republican who loves their country should:

If in Virginia vote for Bob McDonnell
If in New Jersey vote for Chris Christie
If in California’s 10th District vote for David Harmer
If in New York’s 23rd District vote for Dough Hoffman
OHIO JOE Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Exhibit B of how the moderates are jumping of a cliff: The G.O.P. Stalinists Invade Upstate New York
By Frank Rich

Funny how the real Stalinists are the 4 party gangsters who started this mess by failing to hold a primary.
Knickers in a twist. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:02 pm
If I were in NY, I’d vote for Owens.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:03 pm
GOP nominee for New York seat quits raceRate this story
Move boosts Conservative rival in House contest
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/01/gop-nominee-for-ny-seat-quits-race/

Mr. Long attributed the shift of Republicans to the Conservative Party first to the endorsement of Mr. Hoffman by American Conservative Union Chairman David A. Keene, whose opinion carries weight with conservative Republicans around the country, then to the embrace of Mr. Hoffman by Jeri Thompson, wife of former Sen. Fred Thompson, Tennessee Republican, followed by support from Mr. Thompson himself and former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who has a small but loyal coterie of conservative Republican activists around the country.

Then, in a surprise move, former New York Gov. George E. Pataki showed up at a Conservative Party fundraiser at the New York Athletic Club on Thursday evening to announce his support for Mr. Hoffman. Mr. Pataki thus became the first major New York Republican to break with his party and go for the Conservative Party candidate – and to signal to other New York Republicans that it was all right to break ranks.
Knickers in a twist. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Bob, Yes, I am proud that my vote helped defeat the bimbo!!!! And yes, I knew what Obama would do to the country. But I would so much rather have Obama in office, than the Jerry Springer show 24/7. sometimes, we need a carter to get a reagan.
Knickers in a twist. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:09 pm
39. You read something? I’m shocked. Normally, you just spew what you heard on Fox without thinking for yourself.
Win M. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:09 pm
“It would be all well and fine if you wackos supported a truly moderate Republican, but you back a Socialist Republican and you she dropped out you guys back the Dem out of bitterness.”

Um, I supported Hoffman from the beginning. You have a habit of just making things up.

And also; please tell me, in a non-hysterical way, citing evidence, how Dede Scozzafava is a socialist. She’s a moderate, and too moderate for my tastes, as I backed Hoffman. But I have a hunch you don’t really know what “socialist” means. So enlighten us as to how Scozzafava fits that description.
OHIO JOE Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:11 pm
“If I were in NY, I’d vote for Owens.” Funny how all of a sudden the Romneyites are joining the liberal fringes of our party. I thought we were told that Mr. Romney was the only Conservative in the race. oooops, time to change the memo.
OHIO JOE Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:21 pm
“Um, I supported Hoffman from the beginning. You have a habit of just making things up.” And you have a habit of ignoring all of your wacky friends on this site who have said that they would rather have Mr. Owens and Queen Dede win the race instead of the Conservative. If you do not know what Socialism is, I have not the time to explain it to you other than to say that those who promote big government and high taxes are a little closer the the Socialist end of the spectrum than the Capitalist side and if you are such a Hoffmanite, you have a slightly hilarious way of showing it, but then again perhaps you are more concerned with the entertainment aspect of politics.
lkv Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Wow, Palin is now doing some damage control with a new message from Face Book…Maybe the heat got a little to hot for her.

What took her so long to mention the Health Care alternatives the House of Representives has been working on?
OHIO JOE Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:22 pm
“Wow, Palin is now doing some damage control with a new message from Face Book” Huh?
Win M. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:27 pm
“ignoring all of your wacky friends on this site”

What in God’s name are you blathering about? Since when am I responsible for what anyone else here says? You directly labeled me an Owens supporter, which I’m not. Period.

“If you do not know what Socialism is, I have not the time to explain it to you other than to say that those who promote big government and high taxes are a little closer the the Socialist end of the spectrum than the Capitalist side”

*Sigh.* And I don’t have time to teach you how to read. I didn’t ask you what socialism is. I asked you to explain why Dede Scozzafava is a socialist. You spend more time on this blog than anyone throwing around inflammatory labels without explaining them, and no one ever takes you to task for it. So again: please explain the accusation you’ve made, over and over and over, that Dede Scozzafava is a socialist.
lkv Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:43 pm
OHIO;

What would you call it. Her Facebook message that endorsed Hoffman, called the GOP the “Political Machine” and the “Republican Establishment”…..Now she headlines her new message “A Time To Unite” and we must tune in to listen to John Boehner tomorrow and listen to his message…. Is she caving because she’s getting too much heat?
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:47 pm
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/gov-charlie-crists-popularity-slides/1048529

Crist 50%
Rubio 28%

Approval/Disapproval Florida

Charlie Crist: 42/55 (39% fair, 16% poor)
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:49 pm
President Obama also earns weak job approval marks from Florida voters, with 46 percent saying he is doing a good or excellent job and 51 percent calling it fair or poor. The voters who delivered Florida’s 27 electoral votes — independents — have turned on him, with nearly 6 in 10 negatively assessing Obama’s performance.

Crist may be lucky that voters tend to have stronger feelings, good and bad, about the president, than him. For instance, only 6 percent of voters said Crist is doing an excellent job — compared to 21 percent for Obama — and 16 percent said Crist is doing a poor job — compared to 30 percent for Obama.

“Seventy-five percent think Crist has done a fair or good job,” Conway noted. “It’s a gentleman’s C, but maybe that’s enough.”

Indeed, the pollsters agreed that the little-known Rubio has a long way to go to catch Crist. If the governor were in dire trouble, even an unknown challenger would likely be closer than Rubio is.

“The most positive number for Crist in the entire survey is that he’s at 50 percent among Republican primary voters — despite all that has happened,” Conway said.

Nearly half the Republicans who opposed Crist supporting Obama on the stimulus package still said they would vote for him.

“They say you should deal with the devil you know,” said Leroy Worthen, a retired Air Force veteran in Fort Walton Beach. “Right now, with Charlie Crist, I’m dealing with the devil I know. But I want to look into Rubio to see exactly what he is about.”

In the Times/Herald/Bay News 9 poll, Crist beat Rubio among every demographic group, including Hispanics where 40 percent backed Crist, 30 percent the Cuban-American Rubio and 30 percent were undecided. The Miami Republican was strongest in Central Florida, where he trailed by 10 percentage points, and weakest in Crist’s home territory of Tampa Bay, where he trailed by 29 points.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:54 pm
From the twitter feed of the House minority leader:

http://twitter.com/johnboehner/status/5320673839

Thanks to Gov Sarah Palin for highlighting my address on GOP
lkv Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 10:56 pm
#57:

Win M.

OHIO JOE usually has well thought out comments, but when it comes to Romney supporters …well, it’s a different story. He thinks they belong to the Socialist wing of the Republican Party, whatever that means.
Win M. Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 11:06 pm
#62 – That’s what I can’t understand… this Pavlovian repetition of “socialism, socialism, socialism” just utterly makes no sense. I just think he uses terms and phrases that he doesn’t understand, and uses them often.
Tommy Boy Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Long: A Hoffman Win Equal to Buckley in 1970
http://www.nationalreview.com/finalcountdown/post/?q=MjNjMWMwODFmOWZkYTliYjM1NWVjY2Q0NDFmYzg1MDk=

Mike Long, the chairman of the Conservative Party of New York, tells NRO that he is “absolutely ecstatic with the news” that liberal Republican Dede Scozzafava has decided to suspend her campaign in New York’s 23rd congressional district. Conservative candidate Doug Hoffman, he says, now “faces a race against a candidate supportive of Nancy Pelosi’s antics in Democrat Bill Owens.”

Hoffman, says Long, is a “regular Republican who clearly identifies with conservatives across the country. It’s been a long hill climb for him, but this is now a very tight race and momentum is on our side.”

“If we can pull this off,” says Long, “a Hoffman win will be equal to Jim Buckley for U.S. Senate in 1970. It’s the same equation. It’s all possible thanks to the tremendous support of conservatives across the country, from Jeri and Fred Thompson and David Keene to Rick Santorum and Sarah Palin. The endorsements just keep rolling in. We’re very pleased.”
Greg Alterton Says:
October 31st, 2009 at 11:57 pm
#9. Widen your focus. As an evangelical Christian, I supported Rudy Giuliani’s run for President, because I thought he was the most effective and pragmatic conservative candidate on economic, and governance issues. I know you supported Rudy too. If I can still believe in a big-tent GOP, why can’t you? Besides, from where I sit, the CD23 race has been about the kind of broad perspective that should make for effective opposition against Obama. As a friend said to me, “This race is about conservatism, not about abortion.”
Aron Goldman Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 12:18 am
Hoffman: ‘I will reach out to Scozzafava’
http://www.nationalreview.com/finalcountdown/post/?q=YzY2YTg1ZjA2ZmM0ZDIyZDRmZDRlN2JlOWFhYjY4NWI=
Aron Goldman Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 12:24 am
Finish the Job in NY-23
by Marco Rubio
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjljMTM0MTAwOTI3MTk1YzdkZTg1ZGVmN2I2ZTU3ZTQ=

Today’s developments in New York’s 23rd Congressional District should send an encouraging message to conservatives everywhere. It is not only right and necessary to stand up for our principles, it is also an appealing strategy to Americans yearning for less government and more fiscal restraint in Washington.

While there are still four grueling days of work left, it is clear candidates willing to stand up for conservative beliefs will not face a lonely journey on the campaign trail.

For conservatives who still don’t believe we can be true to our principles and win elections, I hope NY-23 serves as a wake-up call. It’s time for them to join their fellow Republicans on the front lines to deliver a victory on Tuesday.

Hoffman Emerges
by Newt Gingrich
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWU4YmQzMjk1MmNmZDY5Mjk5ZmQ0ZjUzMTk2YzdkYTI=

The emergence of Doug Hoffman as the only alternative to a pro-tax increase, pro-Pelosi liberal is a victory for Mike Long and the Conservative party, in alliance with the national conservative movement and talk radio.

The challenge for the next three days is to convince every Republican who opposes Pelosi and opposes tax increases that Doug Hoffman is the only vote that can stop the Left on Tuesday.

In a district that has double-digit unemployment, tax increases are a threat to further crush the economy.

If taxes are the key issue, the Democrats will suffer a significant defeat.
lkv Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 12:55 am
Palin now wants to unite the Republican party!!! That’s like cleaning your house after a direct hit by a hurricane.

Palin let this hatred and division for the Republicans who decided to stick by the GOP instead of falling in line behind Palin get out of hand.

Then again come Monday there will be plenty of people to help her put the genie back in the bottle. The division is so great on the blogs, that I don’t know how the Romney, Gingrich, and the Huckabee supporters can come around anytime soon…It’s been complete character assassination for over a week.
OHIO JOE Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 6:30 am
“OHIO JOE usually has well thought out comments, but when it comes to Romney supporters …well, it’s a different story. He thinks they belong to the Socialist wing of the Republican Party, whatever that means.” Well, Ikv, for the record, while I do think that you camp has two wings, at least until this week or so, I did not think that your non-Conservative wing (pardon the term) was actually comprised or socialists or even outright liberals. However, I am frankly baffled that a camp that is supposedly Right of Center has poured so much effort into opposing Mr. Hoffman (who actually is NO further to the right than our gubernatorial candidate in Virginia.) It is all fine and well to say that his opponent had an R next to her name, but am I the only one that finds it interesting that ACORN, The Daily KOS and The Working Families of New York Party all supported her.

I further find it interest that Mrs. Palin gets the blame for starting this division instead of the party bosses (who failed to conduct an open primary.) Don’t forget that Mr. F. Thompson among others backed Mr. Hoffman even before Mrs. Palin came on the scene. I suppose Mr. F. Thompson is now an extreme Right Wing Lunatic as well who hates any Republican who is even slightly to his left. Why, let’s even call him a Fascist, a bigot and what not all. Or is it that you all held your nose at some of Dede’s left-wing policies, just had to support her because she was for TARP and Mr. Hoffman is not. By the way, despite the fact that the Minute Men back Mr. Hoffman, I have never heard Mr. Hoffman say any of the thing that Mr. Tancredo has said, so the idea that Mr. Hoffman is out of the political mainstream is also very difficult to make.

“Then again come Monday there will be plenty of people to help her put the genie back in the bottle. The division is so great on the blogs, that I don’t know how the Romney, Gingrich, and the Huckabee supporters can come around anytime soon…It’s been complete character assassination for over a week.” So I am supposed to feel bad that people like Mr. Gingrich, Mr. Huckabee, Mr. Romney and the Queen from NY-23 got their feeling hurt because a few nasty things were said about them. Well despite being a Republican, my memory may not be quite as good as an elephant. However, this elephant remembers a few things; I remember how for months, people would says things about the Palin family. I do not recall anybody questioning Mr. Scozzafava’s loyalty to America. I do not recall anybody wanting the Scozzafava children to die or be gang raped. Oh yes, very very very few of you anti-Palinite stooped that low, but I do remember a few things said about Mrs. Palin’s family that do not seem to be said about the Scozzafava, Gingrich, Obama, Romney and even Huckabee families. Further, let’s just say that in the few weeks after Mrs. Palin resigned from the Governor’s mansion, the comments made from other camps (one in particular) were not exactly sportsman like. Please point out where I missed something, but by enlarge those who were against Ms. Scozzafava pointed out her record as a New York State Assemblywoman and her exteme political view. apart from me calling her things like ACORN QUEEN, again no worse than many of the things said about Mrs. Palin, I do not recall a lot of name calling or people making fun of his ethnicity her 5th grade report card or what have you. Let’s just say the anti-Hoffmanites were not quite as civil. So, forgive me if I refuse to take lesson on sportsmanship, civility and so forth from those who oppose Princess Sarah and support Queen Dede.

It is frankly hilarious to blame Princess Sarah for being hateful and sticking it to the GOP when the party bosses could have easily avoid this little contest between the Queen and the Princess which turned into a minor civil war. Then again I suppose the Mexican civil war did not have to happen in the first place either.

Remember if we are all so sure that the next nominee of the party begins with the letter M, then M & M are going to have to build the bridges to the Conservative people. Frankly, I almost feel like saying “you Ms go and have your contest and then wake me up in November of 2012 and tell me which M I have to vote for against Mr. Obama.
MarkG Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 8:10 am
#45: Frank Rich: “G.O.P. Stalinists”

Sheesh, talk about forcing your logic until it breaks.

It goes something like this: Once Hoffman was plucked from obscurity by CFG, Thompson, and — most importantly — Sarah Palin, he was made into an extreme right-wing hardliner. Rich thus absolves himself of any need to point out any stance or policy of Hoffman that could be called “far right.”

Having thereby established guilt of the crime of being a right-wing hardliner by association, Hoffman’s rise at the expense of Scozzafava became a bloody civil war in which the forces of light were routed by the jack-booted tea-party thugs led by Sarah Palin. Never once does Frank Rich present a single policy advocated by either side, nor does he acknowledge any substantive dispute at all.

After emoting for several column inches, he finally concludes with the implied proof that Fox News talkers, Sarah Palin, and the tea party folks are extreme right wingers because they’ve associated with the ultra-right pariah Hoffman.

Let’s review. Hoffman is proclaimed to be a hard-right winger because he receives the backing of Palin, talk jocks, and anti-establishment conservatives. Because we now know Hoffman to be a right-wing extremist, he is introduced as Exhibit A in the case for just how far right Palin, talk jocks, and tea party folks are.

Nice work, Frank Rich.

Oh, and for good measure, he tosses out the gratuitous smear that folks living out in white (rural) America are essentially all racists — because they don’t agree with the President on anything much.
JA Pruce Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 8:39 am
NY-23 demonstrates the influence and stature of Governor Palin in the Party right now. Anyone who questions her electoral potency in the primary will take notice after Tuesday nights results.
Chip Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 9:43 am
Doug Hoffman is not an extreme right-winger. He’s just a mainstream conservative who was running against a Republican as liberal as Lincoln Chafee.
OHIO JOE Says:
November 1st, 2009 at 9:46 am
Well said MarkG, JA Pruce and Chip! Thank you all for promoting mainstream Conservatism!

October 31, 2009

Partial PPP NY-23 Poll Has Hoffman Leading Big

73 Responses to “Partial PPP NY-23 Poll Has Hoffman Leading Big”

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