Thanks a lot.
EDIT: Is Specter a DINO now? I can hear the left now: “Gosh, he votes with the Republicans half the time! We can’t tolerate that!”
Something tells me that the Democrats are celebrating this, not clenching their fists over Specter’s ideological impurity. Why? Because they have another senator in their ranks. We just lost one.
Hope you’re happy, hardliners.
Thanks, Toomey. Thanks so much.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Alex,
What? You think nobody should EVER run against an incumbent? You think monopolies provide the best quality at the lowest price? Don’t blame Toomey. If Specter was really that unpopular with the rank and file, he would have been a weak candidate anyway.
As it stands, I think PA is now a GREAT pickup opportunity. If Specter gets the Democratic nod (an open question I think), Toomey stands a much better chance running against Benedict Arnold than a “real” Democrat. Remember, there are a lot of rank and file Democrats in PA who never voted for Specter.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Mr. Toomey is the one leave the party, it was your tax and spend liberal budy who left. Why couldn’t he stick around and win the nomination?
April 28th, 2009 at 11:44 am
“Toomey stands a much better chance running against Benedict Arnold than a “real” Democrat. Remember, there are a lot of rank and file Democrats in PA who never voted for Specter.” BINGO, we can no longer win the seat with a Democrat as the candidate.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Besides, Toomey just pulled the curtain back on the real Specter- a self-serving turncoat who sells his vote.
If anything, we should THANK Toomey. We don’t need guys like Specter in the Senate.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Alex,
I bet you blame Toyota for GM’s demise……..
April 28th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Way to GO, TOOMEY! IF you can get ‘em to quit before you even get a chance to beat ‘em, you earn my respect. Quality, not necessarily quantity, Knepper.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:47 am
ACtually we do need “guys like that” in the Senate, because without them Repbulicans have absolutely NO SAY in what happens. Universal health care, card check, you name it, it will all be passed now with ease.
While Specter may not vote for it, I doubt he will not vote for cloture.
It was our “big tent” that made us the party of the majority. We are shrinking that with our intolerance of anythign but the hardline right viewpoitn. while I agree that specter sucked on the issues, there has to be room and tolerance ofr people like that in our party if we want to be in power.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Liz: QUALITY OVER QUANTITY!!??!
THIS IS POLITICS!!! YOU NEED FIFTY VOTES IN THE SENATE!
April 28th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Club for Shrinkage.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:50 am
What? You think nobody should EVER run against an incumbent? You think monopolies provide the best quality at the lowest price? Don’t blame Toomey. If Specter was really that unpopular with the rank and file, he would have been a weak candidate anyway.
No, I DON’T think people should run against incumbents.
You know why? BECAUSE I WANT A MAJORITY IN THE SENATE AND WE WASTE RESOURCES WHEN WE STRAY FROM THAT AIM.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:51 am
This probably should have been posted as a comment under Max’s thread instead of a stand alone post.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:51 am
No, this definitely should have been a stand-alone post.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:51 am
#9, this is not a Cialis ad.
Alex, Specter had to go. This has nothing to do wtih abortion. Specter was one of the reasons for the falling popularity of the GOP.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:54 am
HE WAS A DEMOCRAT ANYWAY
Don’t understand the whine of this Girlymen republicans. Specter is and always will be a rat.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:55 am
How’s that?
Specter won consistently as a Republican in a blue state, and would be poised to do so again except for the fact that he can’t get nominated as a Republican in that blue state. That says more about Republicans than it does about the popularity of politicians like Specter.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:55 am
A majority of traitors is not a majority.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:56 am
It needed to be a stand-alone post because I don’t want people to come to this site and see Max Twain’s post saying that Arlen Specter is a traitor and a pathetic human being.
I’d like people who don’t read the comments page to see that we don’t view this in a reactionary manner.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:56 am
The unions were making noises about supporting Specter if he switched his
position on Card Check. Now he safely can – and with labor behind him he
cannot lose the primary or the general. PA is now firmly Blue.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:57 am
JUST heard on foxnews mike steel is ticked and they said spector could do a public event as early as TODAY WOW!
April 28th, 2009 at 11:57 am
JUST heard on foxnews mike steel is ticked and they said spector could do a public event as early as TODAY WOW WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA!
April 28th, 2009 at 11:57 am
A majority of traitors is not a majority.
Yeah it is.
HE WAS A DEMOCRAT ANYWAY
No he wasn’t.
April 28th, 2009 at 11:58 am
He does this all the time Kavon!
Alex, I think Toomey will win the general against whomever, probably Specter! My concern is what happens between now and 2010 elections. If we lose the filibuster opportunity, it could be devestating for our country.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
“You know why? BECAUSE I WANT A MAJORITY IN THE SENATE AND WE WASTE RESOURCES WHEN WE STRAY FROM THAT AIM.
” Well, at least now we do not need to waste recourses on a primary contest. Thanks for leaving us, Mr. Specture.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
All right, go on. You might as well just go ahead and join Al Qaida…
April 28th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I though about posting this seperately, and if someone else deems it appropriate, they can do so, but Specter’s full statement deserves some reading. It’s kind of a referendum on how the Republican Party has shifted away from big tent.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0409/Specter_switching_parties.html#comments
“I have been a Republican since 1966. I have been working extremely hard for the Party, for its candidates and for the ideals of a Republican Party whose tent is big enough to welcome diverse points of view. While I have been comfortable being a Republican, my Party has not defined who I am. I have taken each issue one at a time and have exercised independent judgment to do what I thought was best for Pennsylvania and the nation.
Since my election in 1980, as part of the Reagan Big Tent, the Republican Party has moved far to the right. Last year, more than 200,000 Republicans in Pennsylvania changed their registration to become Democrats. I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans.
When I supported the stimulus package, I knew that it would not be popular with the Republican Party. But, I saw the stimulus as necessary to lessen the risk of a far more serious recession than we are now experiencing.
Since then, I have traveled the State, talked to Republican leaders and office-holders and my supporters and I have carefully examined public opinion. It has become clear to me that the stimulus vote caused a schism which makes our differences irreconcilable. On this state of the record, I am unwilling to have my twenty-nine year Senate record judged by the Pennsylvania Republican primary electorate. I have not represented the Republican Party. I have represented the people of Pennsylvania.
I have decided to run for re-election in 2010 in the Democratic primary.
I am ready, willing and anxious to take on all comers and have my candidacy for re-election determined in a general election.
I deeply regret that I will be disappointing many friends and supporters. I can understand their disappointment. I am also disappointed that so many in the Party I have worked for for more than four decades do not want me to be their candidate. It is very painful on both sides. I thank specially Senators McConnell and Cornyn for their forbearance.
I am not making this decision because there are no important and interesting opportunities outside the Senate. I take on this complicated run for re-election because I am deeply concerned about the future of our country and I believe I have a significant contribution to make on many of the key issues of the day, especially medical research. NIH funding has saved or lengthened thousands of lives, including mine, and much more needs to be done. And my seniority is very important to continue to bring important projects vital to Pennsylvania’s economy.
I am taking this action now because there are fewer than thirteen months to the 2010 Pennsylvania Primary and there is much to be done in preparation for that election. Upon request, I will return campaign contributions contributed during this cycle.
While each member of the Senate caucuses with his Party, what each of us hopes to accomplish is distinct from his party affiliation. The American people do not care which Party solves the problems confronting our nation. And no Senator, no matter how loyal he is to his Party, should or would put party loyalty above his duty to the state and nation.
My change in party affiliation does not mean that I will be a party-line voter any more for the Democrats that I have been for the Republicans. Unlike Senator Jeffords’ switch which changed party control, I will not be an automatic 60th vote for cloture. For example, my position on Employees Free Choice (Card Check) will not change.
Whatever my party affiliation, I will continue to be guided by President Kennedy’s statement that sometimes Party asks too much. When it does, I will continue my independent voting and follow my conscience on what I think is best for Pennsylvania and America.”
April 28th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
“He was a traitor, anyway.”
To quote Harry Truman: If you want a friend in Washington, get a dog.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I love our chances in a Toomey vs. Specter general.
Toomey will raise $50 kagillion with the help of the national party.
Specter will be counting an army that has always voted against him. The party bosses in Washington and the union bosses can cut whatever deal they want. It doesn’t mean the Democrats’ grassroots and precinct committeemen will be pounding the pavement for him.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
he is pathetic, this was self-preservation plain and simple
April 28th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
“he is pathetic, this was self-preservation plain and simple”
He is indeed a pathetic bastard.
But now he’s the Democrats’ pathetic bastard.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
“I have not represented the Republican Party.”
Specter was right about that!
April 28th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
“Toomey will raise $50 kagillion with the help of the national party.”
I’m assuming that’s a rough estimate.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Well, I wouldn’t worry so much about the 60 seats. The democratic party is not a hive mind. There’s the blue dogs, the people like Lieberman and now Specter….
April 28th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Alex,
So what do you think Specter’s chances are with his new found “friends?”
April 28th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Alex believes in party over principle. If Bernie Sanders applies to join the GOP, then the party should fashion a socialist front porch to its platform just to be as commodious as possible.
It’s the stupid base and its stupid activists, donors, and voters who are to blame. They’ve consistently betrayed their betters by getting so darn tetchy about a party that spent the last eight years abandoning all its smaller government beliefs that its stupid voters and supporters foolishly believe it should return to.
Yeah, Alex, that sounds just about right.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Robbie,
“I’m assuming that’s a rough estimate.”
Give or take a hald gillion, of course.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
ALEX, SPECTER IS A PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING.
He is a traitor and anyone who want to follow him is also a traitor.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
What are the chances MItt ROMNEY gases up his plane ASAP and starts campaigning in PA AGAINST SPECTER?
April 28th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
alex, he is going to vote the same way, the R and D label are meaningless to how specter will vote. the stimulus is the perfect example. this is about his reelection.
we need to try to beat in in 2010, and win the governorship. he is 80 something with cancer, he wont last.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Arlen Specter’s National Journal Senate Rankings
How to Read These Ratings
A score of 54 on the conservative scale, for example, means that the senator was more conservative than 54 percent of his Senate colleagues on key votes.
Composite
2008: 55.2 (50.2)
2007: 54.5
Economic issues
2008: 57 (47)
2007: 54
Foreign policy issues
2008: 60 (47)
2007: 57
Social issues
2008: 47 (53)
2007: 51
Considering the numbers in parentheses belong to Republicans’ favorite Democrat, Ben Nelson, it stands to reason that the significantly more-conservative Specter should now be GOPers’ pet Dem.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Alex, So what do you think Specter’s chances are with his new found “friends?”
Don’t know, don’t care. All I know is that he’s no longer with us and that that makes me mad.
Alex believes in party over principle. If Bernie Sanders applies to join the GOP, then the party should fashion a socialist front porch to its platform just to be as commodious as possible.
Maybe you’re not aware of how the Senate works, but the majority party sets the agenda: what comes to the floor, what bills get voted on and when. What goes through committee. If Bernie Sanders wants to vote for Mitch McConnell for Majority Leader, then I’ll welcome Sanders in. Why not?
ALEX, SPECTER IS A PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING. He is a traitor and anyone who want to follow him is also a traitor.
He is pathetic. He is a traitor. But he was ours before, and now he’s theirs.
alex, he is going to vote the same way, the R and D label are meaningless to how specter will vote. the stimulus is the perfect example. this is about his reelection.
1) Agenda-setting in the Senate.
2) The message he’s sending to other moderate Republicans.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Why do you say that? He has his own ideas, and realizes that he’ll be more effective in promoting them as a member of the Democratic party than the Republican party. He’s obviously committed to them, since he’s old, sick, and could make a lot more money than he does now if he semi-retired and did private sector work. I actually think it’s more pathetic to continue allegiance to a party (and platform) that doesn’t want to hear from you.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Why do you say that? He has his own ideas, and realizes that he’ll be more effective in promoting them as a member of the Democratic party than the Republican party. He’s obviously committed to them, since he’s old, sick, and could make a lot more money than he does now if he semi-retired and did private sector work. I actually think it’s more pathetic to continue allegiance to a party (and platform) that doesn’t want to hear from you.
I think he’s a pathetic bastard because of what he stands for. I hate his general ideology: incoherent, mushy, meaningless, non-intellectual. But I’m not under any ludicrous illusions that I’m going to build a majority party with a My Way or the Highway attitude.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Pa. state Sens skeptical of Specter’s efforts to change primary rules
http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/03/23/pa-state-sens-skeptical-of-specters-efforts-to-change-primary-rules/
April 28th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
“What are the chances MItt ROMNEY gases up his plane ASAP and starts campaigning in PA AGAINST SPECTER?
” Good, it would be smart for any Republican to campaign against Mr. Specture now.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
“incoherent, mushy, meaningless, non-intellectual”
He went to Penn, majored in International Relations, then went to Yale Law. He, whether or not you agree with him, is a man of at least respectable intellect. Methinks you’re saying that anybody that you disagree with is anti-intellectual.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Everyone is missing the point.
This is good for several reasons, including;
#1) Several Senators and Governors are under threat of losing their seats in 2009-2010. We needed new blood to win or hold seats.
#2) This means Toomey will not have to run to the right on social issues in the primary. He can begin to fight for the middle-ground for the 2010 election against Specter.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Good points Kristofer!
April 28th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
He went to Penn, majored in International Relations, then went to Yale Law. He, whether or not you agree with him, is a man of at least respectable intellect. Methinks you’re saying that anybody that you disagree with is anti-intellectual.
He’s smart, but he’s not an intellectual. They are two different things.
Every issue seems to exist in a vacuum to him; he has no coherent ideology of which to speak.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
“ACtually we do need “guys like that” in the Senate, because without them Repbulicans have absolutely NO SAY in what happens. Universal health care, card check, you name it, it will all be passed now with ease.”
Keeping Specter would have in no way prevented the passage of universal health care as well probably as many other programs. Obama was already telling the GOP in the senate that they were gonna use reconciliation to pass the health care reform. What that amounts to is a procedural maneuver that would prevent philibustering. The dems didn’t need 60+ votes, they only needed a simple majority.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Perhaps all the PA Dems will now flood into the GOP as refugees fleeing the Specter haunting Europe, er, their old party.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
#2) This means Toomey will not have to run to the right on social issues in the primary. He can begin to fight for the middle-ground for the 2010 election against Specter.
What the hell are you talking about?
Why would Toomey have had to run to the right on social issues to begin with?
April 28th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
“Every issue seems to exist in a vacuum to him; he has no coherent ideology of which to speak.”
Explain. I could be wrong, but I don’t see that. I just think he has a non-traditional ideology.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
8 Alex, you don’t have to shout, I’m right here. Are you not aware that Specter was already voting with the Dems? This is like putting a misplaced library book in the right place. Don’t be fooled by the labels, Alex, this is politics.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Alex Knepper. I have no idea how old you are, but your post is ridiculous. You come across very immature.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Why are we supporting this overlay thread instead of the original…? Let’s switch to the other thread to finish this!
April 28th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
In this case the incumbent should be RECALLED!!! Yahoo!!! one down, two more to go. That’s the way I see it.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
8 Alex, you don’t have to shout, I’m right here. Are you not aware that Specter was already voting with the Dems? This is like putting a misplaced library book in the right place. Don’t be fooled by the labels, Alex, this is politics.
Are you WILLFULLY IGNORING Aron’s numbers?
“Arlen Specter’s National Journal Senate Rankings
How to Read These Ratings
A score of 54 on the conservative scale, for example, means that the senator was more conservative than 54 percent of his Senate colleagues on key votes.
Composite
2008: 55.2 (50.2)
2007: 54.5
Economic issues
2008: 57 (47)
2007: 54
Foreign policy issues
2008: 60 (47)
2007: 57
Social issues
2008: 47 (53)
2007: 51
Considering the numbers in parentheses belong to Republicans’ favorite Democrat, Ben Nelson, it stands to reason that the significantly more-conservative Specter should now be GOPers’ pet Dem.”
April 28th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Adios, Benedict Arlen. Let the Dems have fun with you.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
TOOMEY has suddenly become an even more attractive candidate. I hope he is what he says he is. Really Alex, that’s the way I see the world. There are people who are who they say they are, and there are posers. I call the honest people, conservatives. I call the dishonest people, liberals. Simplistic, yes. But it works for me as I am a very busy woman and don’t have much time to get convoluted.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Knepper, as usual, couldn’t disagree with you more. This is a shameful post.
It’s not Toomey’s fault. A simple primary challenge was all it took for Specter to bolt. That’s his problem. Not the GOP’s.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Great Day for the GOP.
A liberal has found his roost!
April 28th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
“He’s smart, but he’s not an intellectual. They are two different things.” Haha, anybody who opposes the great Mr. Specture cannot be an intellectual, oh no.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Welcome to the club MVRed!
April 28th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Agreed. And while I am not about to join Arlen on the other side of the aisle, after reading Steve Schmidt’s recent lament, however, I realized that the answer to my post-election questions appears, most unfortunately, to be the former, not the latter.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
“Alex Knepper. I have no idea how old you are, but your post is ridiculous. You come across very immature.”
How is this post immature? I disagree with Alex a lot, but I think a lot of people on this site just like to call him immature because they disagree with him.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I am 19 years old. He blatantly attacks a conservative Republican for challenging Specter as if that was wrong! If you don’t find anything wrong there, then I question your thinking as well…..
April 28th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Haha, anybody who opposes the great Mr. Specture cannot be an intellectual, oh no.
Huh?
I hate Specter.
I was saying that Specter was anti-intellectual.
Read!
April 28th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
I am 19 years old. He blatantly attacks a conservative Republican for challenging Specter as if that was wrong! If you don’t find anything wrong there, then I question your thinking as well…..
Yeah, it is wrong. Challenging incumbents is generally wrong.
Especially since we’re not exactly in a position to be purging the ranks right now.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
65, Robbie, it was immature of Alex to start this thread when Twain had already started one. He does this kind of thing all the time so that he can adolescently get the last word in.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
“Haha, anybody who opposes the great Mr. Specture cannot be an intellectual, oh no.”
OHIOJOE, I think you misread what he was saying. He was calling Arlen Specter anti-intellectual.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Lincoln Chaffee anyone? Bye Bye Arnie….
April 28th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Alex, just be honest. This is a sad day for you, because this is another blow (no pun intended) to your agenda to embrace homosexuality in the Republican party.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Yeah, the post is fine. But I don’t think Alex “capiches” that lots of people are fed up with the support of hypocrites by so-called “moderate conservatives” because they think they have a more sophisticated strategy for winning than the regular conservatives who simply believe in being who you say you are, and fighting against bad policies STRAIGHT UP. Specter is highly representative of the hypocritical “conservative”. I don’t care much about overall numbers, yeah Specter throws a bone now and then but when the heat is on, he is decidedly Democrat.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
65, Robbie, it was immature of Alex to start this thread when Twain had already started one. He does this kind of thing all the time so that he can adolescently get the last word in.
I posted it because Max Twain is a lunatic who said that Specter is a “pathetic excuse for a human being” on the front page. I would like to see that counterbalanced.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Wow. That’s another hair-raising paean to those who make their elected offices into lifetime careers.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Specter throws a bone now and then but when the heat is on, he is decidedly Democrat.
You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.
Arlen Specter’s National Journal Senate Rankings
Composite
2008: 55.2 (50.2)
2007: 54.5
Economic issues
2008: 57 (47)
2007: 54
Foreign policy issues
2008: 60 (47)
2007: 57
Social issues
2008: 47 (53)
2007: 51
April 28th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
“Robbie, it was immature of Alex to start this thread when Twain had already started one. He does this kind of thing all the time so that he can adolescently get the last word in.”
First off, is that an adolescent thing? I know plenty of adults who like to get the last word in (Ever heard of Rush Limbaugh?). Secondly, he had a point. I wouldn’t have posted it on the front, but he saw that the only representation of this situation on the front page was one that he disagreed with, and he wanted to display the side of the issue that he agreed with. As an editorial writer who has been asked to post on here, that is technically his job.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
76 Alex, what those numbers really show is that in a statistical analysis Specter is almost always the median voter in between the GOP and the Dems.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Alex, Card Check? Porkulus? I’m not talking about the resolution on whether the Florida Gators are the greatest of all time or not.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Alex, I can’t say I agree with you blaming Toomey and the base for Specter’s defection. Why should we discourage competition in primaries? Why should we discourage the party holding elected officials accountable? Why should we discourage people stepping off the sidelines and into the game to right wrongs that clearly clash with principle? If anything, we need more people like Toomey and less career-politician opportunists who switch parties to avoid facing the music for questionable decisions.
And regardless, if things play out like they should, the public’s opinion of the Democratic Party and their massive spending plans will continue to drop leading into the 2010 election season, which would give Toomey the upper hand, allowing us the party to come out on top in the end, stronger, more focused and more principled. Short term pain now, long term health in the future.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Obama To Specter: We Are Thrilled To Have You
April 28th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Well guess what. Now all you people that pushed this guy into a corner will find out what it’s like to have a REAL Democrat in office.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
“76 Alex, what those numbers really show is that in a statistical analysis Specter is almost always the median voter in between the GOP and the Dems.”
So what does that mean? We kick out the median voter? Most political parties understand that the “median” is where battles are won and lost.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Specter said: “When I supported the stimulus package, I knew that it would not be popular with the Republican Party. But, I saw the stimulus as necessary to lessen the risk of a far more serious recession than we are now experiencing.”
In other words Specter didn’t have the integrity to address the real reasons for the nation’s economic distress while he is still in office. Instead he voted to kick the issue down the road so that his successor will have to deal with it after the country experiences an even greater financial disaster.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Specter is a pussy and he flipped the minute he got a little bit of a scare. Still, it would be better off for him to be in our column when we have so few members.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
It would be better off for Republicans, I should say.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Robbie, so many of Specter’s supporters here keep making the claim that he was more of a republican than he was a democrat. If he is the median then he is neither and Twain was spot on when he said that a RINO has now become a DINO.
April 28th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Liz, John Galt, Michael Binder,
Perhaps you missed this part of Specter’s statement:
April 28th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
“And regardless, if things play out like they should, the public’s opinion of the Democratic Party and their massive spending plans will continue to drop leading into the 2010 election season, which would give Toomey the upper hand, allowing us the party to come out on top in the end, stronger, more focused and more principled. Short term pain now, long term health in the future.”
The Democratic Party and the President aren’t plummeting right now, and for most of what I’ve seen have been rated as high or higher than the Republican Party. If the economy recovers between now and 2010, which most economists are predicting, then there’s no way the Republicans run wild in 2010. Especially in PA, where Specter can tell an electorate who’s happy with the improved economy that he stood by the President while Pat Toomey is left grumbling in a corner about how bad things are. The Republican Party seems to have its eyes closed- the improving economy spells very bad things for 2010.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Wasn’t Specter in Bush’ hip pocket over Iraq? Isn’t that why Bush campaigned for him in the last primary? Do you really think that the Dems in PA will forget that and love him now?
April 28th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
This problem would be taken care of if they changed campaign finance rules to say you could only donate to candidates you were eligible to vote for. Only donate to Toomey if you are a resident of Penn. That would work wonders for keeping our party from going all bible belt on us. Hell that would probably be the best change to camp finance ever.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
“Robbie, so many of Specter’s supporters here keep making the claim that he was more of a republican than he was a democrat. If he is the median then he is neither and Twain was spot on when he said that a RINO has now become a DINO.”
And so we tell all of the moderate Republicans that instead of being a RINO, they should be a DINO? That sort of hurts our numbers a little, don’t you think. I mean, if we start kicking out everybody who doesn’t toe the line at least 75% of the time or whatever threshold you wish to set, then we’re going to lose a lot of people.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Robbie, so many of Specter’s supporters here keep making the claim that he was more of a republican than he was a democrat. If he is the median then he is neither and Twain was spot on when he said that a RINO has now become a DINO.
It’s not just about how he votes on what’s on the floor.
It’s about WHAT GETS TO THE FLOOR.
The MAJORITY sets the agenda. The MAJORITY controls committees.
We are now ANOTHER seat further away from the majority.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Yes. Because Democrats aren’t as stupid with strategy as it seems Republicans are.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
And so we tell all of the moderate Republicans that instead of being a RINO, they should be a DINO?
Exactly. They’ve gotta go somewhere. Why not to us?!
April 28th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
“Alex, just be honest. This is a sad day for you, because this is another blow (no pun intended) to your agenda to embrace homosexuality in the Republican party.” whether Mr. Specture is Straight Gay or Bi, it does not change the fact that he is really a FiLib.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Yep. And another seat away from having our members as committee chairs.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
“Wasn’t Specter in Bush’ hip pocket over Iraq? Isn’t that why Bush campaigned for him in the last primary? Do you really think that the Dems in PA will forget that and love him now?”
Sure he was, but Iraq isn’t the issue now, and Democrats are going to vote for him when he’s the nominee. Democrats sure as hell aren’t going to vote for Pat Toomey. There’s not a Democratic challenger who’s going to be able to overcome Specter.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
As you just said. Son of a bitch. I am so damned frustrated right now. The worst part is that a majority of Republicans think this is a GOOD thing.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
How could Specter have been a RINO when not a single Democratic senator’s record is as conservative as his?
April 28th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Alex…You might want to trust the people of Pennsylvania to select their senator. Senator Specter is a nasty, egotistical, power-hungry old man. He was voted one of the meanest senators by senate staffers. This switch is all about him maintaining power because he knew he was a sure loser in the primary.
Don’t fool yourself into thinking that the Democrats are going to roll over and give him the Democratic nomination next spring. They already have one candidate and there will be others who have been Democrats all their lives. He is not that well respected by either party and there will be backlash from both sides on this switch. Bottom line to me…Senator Specter did not represent his constituents on the stimulus bill. He thought he knew better than 80% of those who called his office.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
What ultimately matters here is what republicans in Pennsylvania want, and a MAJORITY of them obviously didn’t want Specter representing them anymore, so DEAL WITH IT.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
I can see a great ad for Toomey to use, paint Bush as a big government pres who brought on the economic crisis, then show Bush campaigning for Specter. Show Specter voting for TARP and Obama’s stimulus package.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
“He thought he knew better than 80% of those who called his office.” BINGO, it not like we are talking just 51 – 49.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
“Don’t fool yourself into thinking that the Democrats are going to roll over and give him the Democratic nomination next spring. They already have one candidate and there will be others who have been Democrats all their lives. He is not that well respected by either party and there will be backlash from both sides on this switch.”
Bottom line, Arlen Specter has the name recognition alone to beat the rest of the challengers. He also has the war chest, and the Democratic higher-ups aren’t going to endorse primary challenges against him. The President just welcomed him on board. He’ll have the support of the party machine, including Gov. Rendell, who worked for him even when he ran as a Republican.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Adam,
Of course we need moderate candidates, especially in ‘blue’ states, but Specter was not going to win as a republican candidate in 2010.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Nice work, Republicans. Hope you enjoy your new, improved ideologically pure party that can no longer win elections outside of the South.
A party that has no realistic view of where the center is in American politics isn’t going to win, bottom line.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Well said DanL, I really liked Mr. Bush, but he was wrong to back TARP.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Yes. They. Will. He’s been in the senate longer than I’ve been alive. he has a record of appealing to wishy washy moderates because he is a wishy washy moderate. Better for us if he was in our camp. Now, why the hell would he worry about pressure from the right? Look for his voting record to stray far to the left. And it’s all because he wasn’t pure enough.
Yes. Specter’s record is not something for mainline Republicans to cheer about. But we let the hardliners push him away. He’s still going to be in the senate and now he has NO REASON WHATSOEVER to even consider voting with the GOP.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
“Of course we need moderate candidates, especially in ‘blue’ states, but Specter was not going to win as a republican candidate in 2010.”
Do we have polling that says that Specter wasn’t going to beat the Democrat? Everything I’ve seen shows that Dems had relatively high favorables for Arlen.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Sing us that song next Andrew what taxes and unemployment are high sky.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
By the way, a warning shot…
“You haven’t certainly heard warm encouraging words about how [the GOP] views moderates,” said Maine Sen. Olympia Snowe, one of the few remaining moderate Republicans in the Senate.
Snowe said the party’s message has been, “Either you’re with us or you’re against us.”
Snowe is a RINO and a sellout too, right? I think you guys should run someone against her too.
LOL
April 28th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
“Sing us that song next Andrew what taxes and unemployment are high sky.”
The taxes and unemployment will continue to be sky high if our party is so ideologically pure that it appeals to only a small niche of society.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
No. Lorelli keeps asserting it but he never backed it up.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Keep TARP out of it. As far as we know, it was necessary to avoid an even bigger catastrophe, perhaps a smaller version would have worked, however.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
“But we let the hardliners push him away” Hey, he chose to vote for the stimulus plan, nobody forced him.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
On Fox News they were just saying that Specter’s own pollster was telling him that he couldn’t win the primary and that is why he jumped party. If he couldn’t win his primary, how was he going to win the general?
April 28th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I’ve always been a Specter-hater, just as I’ve been a McCain-hater, a Snowe-hater, a Collins-hater, a Chaffee-hater. I’ve supported the Club for Growth.
But the GOP has a major image problem, and don’t you folks see that this contributes to it? Do you think you can win national elections if your image is that of a religious Southern party?
April 28th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
The dirty little secret is that while the state is shifting to the left, the Dems have a weak bench in PA. That’s another reason why the Democrats are only too happy to have Specter as their candidate.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Adam, Lorelli’s still living the fantasy world where Palin helped the McCain ticket…
April 28th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
#110 – The way things were looking, Specter would have lost the primary, and then Toomey would have been crushed in the general by whoever the Dems ran.
PA is a center left state. Actually, Specter is probably a little to the right of his constituents.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Illinois, I wasn’t saying that I was against TARP, I had strongly conflicting thought about it. All I was saying is that I could picture a campaign add that might appeal to moderates, blue state republicans, and some dems.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I do not entirely agree Illinoisguy, if you agree that a smaller version would be better than a large version, than we should not have had the large version which we got. Saying that it was good, but only too big only goes so far. I for one am still upset that TARP is out of control and the passage of time is not making me any less upset.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Ohio, it is so blantantly obvious why you bring up TARP every chance you get. Before you became a Sarahit, I can show you your own words in which you said you wouldn’t hold it against a candidate for supporting a smaller version of it. But, since you have absolutely nothing else to go after Mitt on, you throw this out every chance you get. Its dishonest I believe, unless you have a coherent explanation as to why you know more than Mitt did about its necessity.. You have to admit that on every other issue, Mitt has been the epitomy of a great conservative Republican for many years now. If only all candidates could be so good, we wouldn’t be having to worry about losing one seat in the Senate.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Specter is saying in a news conference that he was not prepared to have his 29 year senate record decided in a PA republican primary.
In other words he is not prepared to be held accountable to the people who gave him that 29 year career. Loser.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
You’re right. But he is close enough to the center to have won for 30 years. He would have won again this year if Toomey et al kept their mouths shut.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
“On Fox News they were just saying that Specter’s own pollster was telling him that he couldn’t win the primary and that is why he jumped party. If he couldn’t win his primary, how was he going to win the general?”
First off, you’re talking about Fox News. Secondly, I was arguing against the idea that the Republicans needed to primary Specter because he couldn’t win the general. Maybe he won’t beat Toomey amongst hardline Republican primary voters, but it will be a different story when you add in the larger blue state electorate.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Yes DanL, not even all moderate Dems are fully behind TARP.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
#126 – Exactly. Isn’t that all a party can really ask for, someone who is as close to their POV as the voters in that state will allow? That’s how Emmaneul and Schumer won in 06.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Robbie, didn’t Specter win his last general by just a few %? If he lost 10-20% of his GOP base, how in the world would he win a general. There are a lot of republicans in PA who are really mad at him and I think quite a few would not turn out for him again.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
#126, the polls show otherwise.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
131 – Put up or shut up.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
“Robbie, didn’t Specter win his last general by just a few %?”
In 2004, he won the general by 11%.
“#126, the polls show otherwise.”
Show it. There’s not a poll out there that shows any Democratic candidate that could beat Specter.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
. http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/02/12/top_stories/doc4993e648a2586425675222.txt
April 28th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Nor am I aware of any poll that shows Toomey defeating any Democratic candidate.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
WEAK!!!
Show me a poll where Specter is bested by any specific Democrat. You’re not going to find one.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
From Kristofer’s article:
“43 percent said he does not deserve to be re-elected next year while 40 percent said he does deserve it.”
Roughly half of those who don’t want to reelect him are Democrats, and half are republicans. If Specter is the nominee over Toomey, expect (giving you a conservative estimate) about half of the disgruntled Republicans to vote reluctantly. That adds to roughly 10%- exactly what Specter needs to get to the magic number.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Why is this a front page post?
April 28th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
[...] Toomey Shrinks the GOP – Alex Knepper, Race42008 [...]
April 28th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
What the hell happened? This site crapped out for like an hour.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Well, Illinoisguy, it is true I did say that I would not hold TARP per se against a candidate. For the record, TARP is certainly not the only reason why I prefer Mrs. Palin over Mr. Romney per se, but it is fair to say, I am even more against TARP than I was as the horror stories come out. I do not believe I am dishonest because I do not not as much as Mr. Romney, I also know less than all the major candidates TARP or no TARP. If you will note, I also blame Mr. Bush and others for TARP, not just Mr. Romney. But as for Mr. Romney, if you want to discuss him, I do understand why Mr. Romney did not lobby Congressmen to push for a smaller TARP instead of just asking them to vote up or down. If Mr. Romney becomes the nominee, I intend to support him and I will most likely give him a monetary donation to help him defeat TARP on steroids (Mr. Obama.) However, in the meantime I do not have to like TARP anymore than I like Mr. Specture. I had no problem getting a loan before TARP and I have no problem getting a loan today. It was largely a Spectureque waste of money.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Specter played his press conference completely wrong: the smart political move would have been to blame the social conservatives for why he left the party.
Instead, he admitted that the backlash against his stimulus vote was why he left the party. He is effectively admitting that he left because the party wanted to go in a fiscally conservative direction by opposing legislation such as the stimulus.
Specter should have done what Aron Goldman and Metro do every other day and blame the social cons…..he failed to do so and missed an obvious political play that would have worked in his favor.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Whether Toomey wins will depend on the amount of cross-over support he can get from socially conservative democrats.
He should be able to paint Specter as a big government liberal. Voting in favor of SCHIP, the Lilly Ledbetter Act, the stimulus, the omnibus bill, Obama’s budget….the list adds up and no ACU rating will save Specter from his “yes” votes on the five preceding items that I just mentioned. We’ve still got cap-and-trade and government-run healthcare to come. Toomey will need to win over “fiscal moderates” as well as “socially conservative democrats.”
Without national security as a major issue, Specter loses his biggest calling card as a “moderate.”
April 28th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Kris,
That Quinnipiac poll did NOT show a single Democratic candidate beating Specter.
As Clay Richards, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, said in the article you cited: “We’re not talking about a huge drop in support here. It’s in territory that makes him vulnerable, but these are numbers in a vacuum without an opponent.”
I realize you pride yourself in being a partisan hack. But, you really don’t give a crap about your credibility (or lack thereof), do you?
April 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
#138: Because the Democrats now have a filibuster proof majority, something that hasn’t happened since 1976.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Frum weighs in….
Another Triumph for the Club for Growth
http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=13e86822-61d6-459a-9aab-4fc32fc9acef
April 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I do not have time to read all of the posts on this exploding story but I have to agree with Alex on this one. I may think Specter was a horrible Republican but he was a Republican and he voted as one on many occasions…now we just lost another seat, that we have practically zero chance at winning back for at least another 6 year because the far right wants to rule the party with an iron fist.
I hate that he voted for the stimulus but he was still on our side and I can guarantee that he had to give a lot of successions to gain an uncontested primary.
Our party is going to hell and the far right is driving the taxi!!!
April 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
“That Quinnipiac poll did NOT show a single Democratic candidate beating Specter.” I would take that with a grain of salt. There was never a poll (feel free to prove me wrong) that showed a Dem other than Mr. Casey that could beat Mr. Santorum.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
OJ, in fairness, ‘dishonest’ probably is not the right word. I just continue to be baffled as to why three legged stool conservatives like you would lean toward Palin. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. If there was an argument in saying that Mitt wasn’t electable or something like that, it would be different, but the recent polls shows that he is in a very good situation regarding that. Once he and Obama start the debates, Mitt will rip him apart any time Barack doesn’t have his teleprompter in front of him. To be perfectly honest, that simply isn’t going to happen with Sarah. I’m afraid Obama will make her look bad in the debates. And then your other guy was Huckabee, and he wasn’t very conservative at all fiscally, and made stupid statements about foreign policy, but you liked him better than Mitt also (at the time). Sorry, its just baffling to see people like you and Tommy Boy as Sarahites. I don’t think you’re a religious bigot, so it just makes it all the more baffling.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
With respect Jersey, it would have been one thing if Mr. Specture was a fiscally responsible liberal, but he wasno longer a Conservative even on fiscal issues.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
142 – Tommy, I have to disagree…he could’ve said whatever he wants the MSM is painting this as a rebellion against the status no of the Republican Party. The only thing to hope for is that Toomey runs uncontested and a lot of resources can be given to Toomey early on…otherwise the party should look for another moderate to run against Specter. I actually think there should be an age limit to senators because Specter is taking a major risk so late in his career and his legacy could be tarnished…but I still think it was a dumb move by our party.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
We’d be better off if more of these me-first politicians retired or switched sides. Let Democrats be the party of corrupt politicians without principles.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Today, for the first time in my life, I fell we are at risk of becoming a regional party…there has got to be some concessions made on both sides of our party, compromises made and a new version of the GOP has got to come to light. This is not good! i know it is easy to say good riddance, who needs you…that was my first reaction, especially after his stimulus vote but calmer heads need to prevail and the party needs to recognize the ramifications of this…which I’m sure they do…hopefully.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Actually Alex I am pretty happy about this (though calling me a hardliner would be a stretch – I supported John McCain in the primary). Sixty is not a magic number that gives the Dems more power, they pass legislation when sixty senators vote for their policies not when sixty senators have a “D” next to their name. Considering that legislation doesn’t generally pass on 100% party lines and that Specter intends to vote the same way as he always does, I don’t see how liberal legislation is going to be one whit easier to pass. The only real magic number inre to Senate control is 50 or 51 (depending on who has the WH), 60 is just symbolic. So really the only thing that’s happened is that it’ll be easier to place a conservative in the Senate, and harder for a Dem that’s more liberal than Specter to get – as he’d have to fight of a primary fight from Specter. I really don’t see what the Dems have to smile about here.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
You know, I really honestly cannot see where anything has changed other than Spectre now has a -D attached to his name instead of an -R. If we were barely holding onto a 51 seat majority, it would make a difference. It would make the difference between the Senate being in the control of the Democrats or the Republicans. But as it is now, Spectre will vote the same way he has always been voting.
He will vote against the Republicans where he would have before. He will vote against the Democrats where he would have before. Nothing will change.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
89,
“The Democratic Party and the President aren’t plummeting right now, and for most of what I’ve seen have been rated as high or higher than the Republican Party. If the economy recovers between now and 2010, which most economists are predicting, then there’s no way the Republicans run wild in 2010. Especially in PA, where Specter can tell an electorate who’s happy with the improved economy that he stood by the President while Pat Toomey is left grumbling in a corner about how bad things are. The Republican Party seems to have its eyes closed- the improving economy spells very bad things for 2010.”
I never said the Democratic Party and the President are “plummeting”. Rasmussen showed today that the GOP now beats the Dems on the generic congressional ballot (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_ballot/generic_congressional_ballot), and his presidential approval polls have showed gradually declining numbers for Obama (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history). Couple that with the polls that show that the public overwhelmingly likes Obama’s personality but not his policies, and you have the possibility for things to turn around in our favor once people start blaming Obama for struggles in the economy. And I wouldn’t be so sure that the economy will recover by the 2010 elections. Even if we do see an end to negative GDP growth, we won’t see expansion like we did from 2003 til 2008. Furthermore, the government’s reckless debt and dollar printing will lead to inflation levels we haven’t witnessed in a long time, creating a de-facto massive middle class tax.
The bottom line comes down to this: early polls showed that Specter had a steep climb in the primary. Why should we fault the party for showing him the music if they truly believed he had to go? We conservatives champion individual freedom and choice, so why don’t we apply those principles to the primary?
April 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
The MSM, the Obama Administration and the Libs on the Hill has turned every debate into a marketing campaign and although Spectre may not vote any differently than he has, they still win and benefit from the marketing campaign. Spectre has had to have give conceessions to get uncontested primary support from the Democrats…what did he concede?
April 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Specter switching parties is bad for Obama. Without a check on the Democrats you’re going to see some far left fantasies come true.
Your average voter may want a check on Democrats when they start taking their total power for granted.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Another way to look at it is Spectre is now the Democrats’ problem. All that wonderfulness, and it doesn’t gain them a blessed thing except a padded final score. A really big whoopee to that.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
#155: Actually, this makes a BIGGER difference than if the Republicans had 51 seats. In the Senate, majority control doesn’t mean much except where committe chairs and senate staff budgets are concerned. However, a 60 vote majority gives the democrats the power to prevent Republicans from filibustering ANY legislation.
Now, that assumes no Dem defects. However, it is far, far harder to get a Senator to go against his party on a cloture vote than a final vote. Take, oh I don’t know, card check perhaps? Harry Reid knows that card check is very unpopular in certain states and is not going to pressure Ben Nelson or Blanche Lincoln to support a bill that could sink their re-election chances. However, he WILL lean on them to vote for cloture, even as they defect on the final vote with his blessing. Now if the Republicans want to stop card check, they need at least 8
more Democrats than they did before, and I don’t see that happening.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
If this dosen’t charge up the base to get out and VOTE IN 2010 NOTHING WILL.
New Rasmussen poll shows over 60% of the people oppose one party rule.
A lot of young people don’t have the experience of living under liberal Democrat rule. Well they’re gonna learn fast now.
Once it registers that they will be SADDLED WITH THE COST OF THESE LIBERAL PROGRAMS FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, HAVE A LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING THAN US IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THEM, AND THAT MANY OF THE PROGRAMS THAT WILL BE DOLEING OUT MONEY TO FOLKS NOW WON’T BE THERE FOR THEM BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO MONEY LEFT TO PAY FOR THEM,( Social Security , Medicare?) then will come the Great Awakening.
The GOP has got to pound this message home to this young and clueless generation.
THEY ARE THE ONES STUCK WITH THE BILL!!!!
THEY WILL BE THE ONES TO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF A NIEVE FOREIGN POLICY!!!
God help them if they don’t wise up fast enough.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
159 – I couldn’t agree more. Before we had a moderate Republican that voted with us more than half the time, now they have a Democrat seated that will most definitely win reelection and will have to vote with them more than half of the time. BUT he was a RINO, so who needs him…when have we become a party that doesn’t welcome diverse opinions…we’re supposed to be the party of Lincoln…now we’re the party of the Status NO!
April 28th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#144, Aron, read question #11.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1280
April 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
With every passing generation this country becomes more and more liberal…it is engrained into there little minds from grade school…we need to be the Party of New Ideas…the Party of Open Ideological Conservative Arms…I think our country needs a third party…maybe a 2 faction Conservative Party that, on one side represents the far right and on the other side the moderate minded conservative? IDK!!!
April 28th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Sean and JR.
So let me get this straight. You are saying that a Senator who selcom could be counted on to vote with his party, now magically becomes a party-line Democrat who will support every party-line vote for them?
April 28th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
#164 marK:
No, I’m not saying Specter will vote party line for the Democrats on every vote.
However, I AM saying he will vote party line for the Democrats on every CLOTURE vote. And with the current configuration in the Senate that is the only vote that matters anymore.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
marK, I am saying that they didn’t welcome Spectre with open arms and offered to give their full support, to him, in his bid for reelection without getting something out of the deal themselves. They have a few guaranteed votes they needed him for and they assumed he would go more conservative with his reelection coming up, now they made promises that almost guarantee him reelection and he doesn’t have to go as conservative and he will have no problem voting for.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Kris,
You mean this one, that, as I pointed out before, did NOT show a single Democratic candidate beating Specter — that Clay Richards, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute went out of his way to note that “these are numbers in a vacuum without an opponent”?
If the 2010 election for United States Senator were being held today, do you think you would vote for Arlen Specter, the Republican candidate, or for the Democratic candidate?
Specter 31%
Democrat 33%
Don’t Know 35%
I’m not joking when I ask you this: Is it your desire to be taken seriously on this site, or to be perceived as an intellectually honest individual?
April 28th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Kristofer #162,
How did Question 11 rebut the claims that no specific Democratic candidates could beat Specter? Did you read the quote in bold in Aron’s comment #144?
April 28th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Sean P, the filibuster was nearly meaningless before Specter switched sides. Obama has been telling senate republicans that the dems would use reconciliation–aka the nuclear option–on the upcoming health care reform. If he used it once, he would use it again and again.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
But Sean, he didn’t vote Republican on every Cloture vote before. Why would he suddenly start voting Democrat on every Cloture vote from now on?
JR,
I am certain there were backroom deals. But you are forgetting something. A turncoat is never, ever fully trusted again, especially by those he defected to. If he betrayed his party before, he will betray his new party in the future. They will be expecting it.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Don’t forget the symbollic message this is going to send to voters who don’t pay as much attention to politics as we do. Just another reason why the average American will believe the Republicans are the Party of the Status NO.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
marK – there is a little bit of time before his reelection and they can guarantee his votes for now…otherwise they wouldn’t abide by their side of the agreement…by the time of his reelection they would have already received the votes they need from him.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
In a way it’s kind of sad. I don’t want to sound cold hearted but It’s sad when old Politicians don’t want to give up power. He has never been in the private sector. Just a short time after law school maybe but that was in 1956 and 53 years ago. He’s 79 years old for goodness sake. He probably lost touch a long time ago. Politicians do have to compromise from time to time, but he didn’t even hold the most important core beliefs of the Republican Platform. That’s kind of a big deal. It’s a gamble for him and a gamble for Republicans but It just seems like he could give Toomey his blessing and retire. With all due respect to him and his family, I understand he is ill with cancer and may not even be able to finish a new term if he did win. I think it is all about power. It’s time to move over for some new ideas.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
173 – that’s why I believe in term limits for Senators and an age maximum…maybe 79 years old is too old to represent with all your facilities. We have an age minimum…why not an age maximum?
April 28th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
JR,
Let me put it as simply as possible. There is no honor amongst thieves. Spectre will stab them in the back just as quickly as he stabbed us in the back.
He was stabbing us in the back when we held the majority. He was stabbing us in the back while the Senate Reelection Committee was pouring millions of dollars into his 2004 election campaign. Even when we could effectively punish him for disloyalty, he was stabbing us in the back. And you believe that he will magically change now that he is a Democrat?
April 28th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
173: For sure we need term limits. I’m from So. California. Being a conservative from Orange County, I have no idea what it is like to have representation in the Senate. But I like to read about people who do.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
159, Of course getting 60 votes is more important than getting 51 votes, I know that. The reason I say the only magic is that number makes a difference in who controls the Senate ( which I think is way more important than you think – the party that controls the body gets decide what’s voted on in the first place), other votes are not done on a party line. Also I doubt the GOP would really want to fillibuster much of anything anyway, imagine if we had sucessfully fillibustered the stimulus – every piece of bad economic news could be placed at the feet of the Republicans, and I doubt we would get credit for recovery either way. Therefore, for the most part I imagine the Republicans are going to allow two or three Republicans to split to the Dems, otherwise we become responsible if things go bad and Dems responsible if they go good.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
marK, he obviously did this to help his chances at reelection. They obviously made some back room deals. He obviously had to concede some votes to get the full backing of the Democrat Party. If he is stupid enough to break his end of the deal then he really is too old to represent his constituents…the same constituents that kept reelecting HIM for the past 30 years.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
in 1999, Clinton had balanced the budget
in 1999, no state had civil unions or Gay msrriage
both parties supported DOMA
Welfare costs were going down
(I exclude foreign policy issues due to the obvious changes in that
Alex, why is it a problem if I want the 4 things I liked about 1999 to continue? Am I an extremist?
April 28th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
179, While this makes sense I don’t really see how the Dems can guarantee him their nomination. There has to be a number of real Dems waiting in line that won’t take kindly to being told to wait for a long-time Republican, and will give Specter a primary challenge. It seems to me that these Democrats will have a pretty good shot, as the party faithful is going to see this as a time when the Democratic party can take risks in going to the left.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
DanL (#170)
The filibuster cannot be used for the budge, so you you are right about the stimulus — it could have easily been rolled over into the budget. But cap and trade? Card check? Greater federal control over the economy? These are all issues that would need to overcome a filibuster to pass, and now that obstacle is completely out of the way.
MarK (#171):
Specter has been in the Senate since Reagan was elected in 1980. In that 29 year career, there have been dozens, maybe hundreds of bills where he has voted contrary to the GOP leadership’s wishes, and the wishes of the grassroots of the party, but he has never as far as I know voted to fillibuster any legislation that was important to the party. Now he will be a Dem and he will extend the same courtesy to the Dem leadership that he did the Republican leadership. He will vote for cloture on any bill they want passed, even if he votes no at the end of the day.
Now there ARE cases where he refused to go join a GOP filibuster (such as the stimulus vote) but refusing to uphold a filibuster is not the same thing as voting to sustain another party’s filibuster. (the difference is that you can spin a vote for cloture as a vote against gridlock even if you oppose the law being passed; there is no comporable way you can spin a vote against cloture on a vote you claim to favor). Specter has never done that and he never will. And the Dems don’t need him to vote for ANY of their agenda, they just need to make sure he lets everything come up for vote, which means a lot of bad bills are about to get passed.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
181 – that is completely true but his numbers in general elections prove that he can pull in votes from both sides of the aisle. He has name recognition on his side and he has the funding and resources of the Democrat Party…I bet nobody contests him…but I could be wrong.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
#181: I suspect you are right, and that one year from now, Specter is going to realize he just got played like a sucker. However, one year from now he will have voted to advance the entirety of the Obama agenda to the US Senate for a floor vote and the Democratic
Party will have no further use for him.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
182, I still say most of the bad bills were going to go through any way. Before this Republicans were only 1 Rhino away from anything passing with at least three or four Rhinos to choose from. And Republican leadership likely wasn’t going to do much to keep that one Rhino from crossing over, since than they would hold responsibility if things didn’t work.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
JR.
I repeat. There is no honor amongst thieves.
Let me explain some simple facts of life to you. Spectre is a Senator. He wants to see bills he is interested in get passed. There will be a number of them that he sponsored. He has to corral enough votes to get them passed. The majority of those are not Democrat/Republican do-or-die party-line votes but pretty much open votes.
He just angered 40% of the Senate. They are going to be disinclined to support him. As to the 60% who are now his buddies, he has to convince a whopping 83% of them to go along with him before he gets what he wants. Do you think that is likely? Do you think it likely that the Democrats will stick their necks out for him against life-long loyal Democrats?
So essentially Spectre has marginalized himself. He is not needed for majority control of the Senate. He really isn’t that needed for the 60% super-majority since he voted with the Democrats on much of the time on those anyway. He has lost most of his influence with the Republicans. He will have only marginally greater influence with Democrats.
Sure, the Democrats are exuberant today. Sure Obama is ecstatic at his defection. But that is today. Tomorrow is a different story. Turncoats are never fully trusted. People who betray others for their own selfish reasons seldom if ever obtain the same level of influence and prestige they once enjoyed.
How very sad for him.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
marK, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Right now he is interested in getting reelected, Republicans turned their backs on him, again it is irrelevant if he deserved it or not, Democrats opened their arms. It’s easy to spout out a cliche’ like “there’s no honor amongst thieves” but unfortunately the world of politics and back room deals is a bit more complex than your assertion. It has nothing to do with honor, it has to do with scratching backs…you scratch mine and I’ll scratch yours. Now we’re left with the fleas.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Aron said;
No Aron, unlike yourself, I actually support Republicans. You seem to spend most of your time attacking Republicans or posting misleading headlines.
Will you ever support a Repubican candidate that is pro-life? You act no differently then the nut-job radical pro-lifers who want all pro-choice Republicans banished from the party.
Adam stated that Specter was going to win, without a doubt, and I stated that polls showed that was not true. Specter’s popularity has dropped and I posted a link supporting that claim. He is not as strong as his previous re-election bid.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
If the Republican Party don’t get rid of these RINO’S, the Republican conservatives will leave the Republican Party in 2010 and start a new thrid party. The Republican Party will lose big majority of conservatives if they do start a new party in the future.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
189 – mary, do you consider yourself a social conservative, a fiscal conservative, a foreign affairs conservative? Please do not say all of the above…you have to choose one you align yourself with more.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Alex… I think I recall arguing with you over this guy before on the “Specters A Symptom Not A Cause” Post…. So I don’t need to voice that opinion again!!!
But Seriously!!!
Whats up with all the Alex hearts Specter Post!!!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
It is rare that Alex and I agree on much other than Giuliani and I don’t think he needs me to defend him but if all you took out of his post was that he hearts Spectre then you’re only reading what you want to read. He is taking a pragmatist stance and I wholeheartedly agree with it.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Jerseyrepublican I know that!!! I was just kidding because we were arguing back and forth about an article he wrote on Specter back in the day!
But I guess I am just not a big fan of keeping a republican just because I want keep the “seat”!!!
I am all about principles and stuff.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Kristen, I apologize for inferring you have a problem with reading comprehension. I love principles, I have a lot of them but what good are they when we’re living in a liberal vision of America?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Jerseyrepublican No offense taken! I am a 26 year old white female living in Flint Mi… Nobody knows liberal vision like me! But they are still important …. and I promise that we (Conservative Americans) will see our day again! And when we do… it will feel that much better knowing that we did it without putting aside our principles just for “seats” in congress!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Tell me about it Kristen, I’m from New Jersey. I’m a pro-choice Republican and it really bothers me that some, in this party, would rather me not be a member than be a pro-choice member…this is a party I was raised with. I remember watching Reagan as a young child and believing how lucky I was to be an American. I believe our party is the party towards personal success and the only path left to obtain the American dream…I just don’t believe the Federal Government has the right to tell a person what they can or cannot do with their body…am I right…I don’t know but I know that I believe there is room in our party for many different viewpoints and just because we might not always agree with them does not mean we aren’t after the same goal. I personally believe some mistakes were made pertaining to Specter and it could hurt America in the near future.
Cool site BTW. I like the independence t-shirt!!!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
We lost a seat, but it’s going to make no difference in our Congressional power whatsoever because he rarely voted with Conservatives anyway.
What it came down to is that he left because, like anyone with half a brain in their head, he realized that Republicans that act like Democrats are going to be called out. We’re sick of voting for McCains and Collins and Snowes and Specters in the hope of hanging on by a thread.
Specter is where he belongs now. He’s a tool. The Democrats can have him.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Thank you Jerseyrepublican for the shirt and site comment!
April 28th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
WTF? Bush and McCain aren’t pro-life?
April 28th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
[...] Some Republicans are acting childishly and unnecessarily pointing fingers at one another or at Pat Toomey, with some even threatening to leave the [...]
April 29th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
[...] the last 24 hours, Alex Knepper has attacked Pat Toomey, Republican ‘Hardliners‘ (85% of the party), Michael Steele and Jim DeMint. I have [...]
April 30th, 2009 at 7:11 am
[...] I promised no more Specter posts, but I couldn’t post this up. Recall on Tuesday, Mr. Knepper wrote: Is Specter a DINO now? I can hear the left now: “Gosh, he votes with the Republicans half the [...]