Hot on the heels of Governor Rick Perry’s anti-American comments about secession and Tom DeLay’s dogged refusal to disavow them, we find that a fifth of Texas would like to secede from the Union.
In case you don’t quite recall what Perry said:
Texas is a unique place. When we came into the union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that…My hope is that America and Washington in particular pays attention. We’ve got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, who knows what may come of that? But Texas is a very unique place, and we’re a pretty independent lot to boot.
And…
We are very proud of our Texas history; people discuss and debate the issues of can we break ourselves into five states, can we secede, a lot of interesting things that I’m sure Oklahoma and Pennsylvania would love to be able to say about their states, but the fact is, they can’t because they’re not Texas.
However, the latest Rasmussen Reports poll in the state finds that if the matter was put to a vote, it wouldn’t even be close. Three-fourths (75%) of Lone Star State voters would opt to remain in the United States. Only 18% would vote to secede, and seven percent (7%) are not sure what they’d choose.
A full quarter of Texas would either vote to secede from the United States or isn’t sure?
What is going on here? And what is happening when the former House Minority Leader — from our side, by the way – is interested in defending such a sentiment?
A silver lining? Kay Bailey Hutchison will oust this traitor, and Tom DeLay’s reputation, to put in in Texas-speak, is about as low as a snake’s belly.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Perry is just hamming it up to demonstrate his disapproval for the Obama administration (admittedly to gain favor from the far right). He never actually said he supported secession, but pointed out that it is an option.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Why don’t New England, New York, and California secede?
April 17th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Alex,
“What is going on here?”
The country is falling apart.
Don’t you watch the news?
April 17th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
I thought all the blood spilled in the civil war had already settled the secession question. Apparently not for some.
Perry and Palin both seem to want to flirt with secession.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I would more than flirt…….
April 17th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
The civil war settled secession for all the states except Texas. I believe that it is in the treaty they signed when they were admitted to the Union that they reserved the right to secede if they chose to.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Georgia too:
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/16/georgia-senate-threatens-dismantling-of-usa/
April 17th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Alex,
Honestly, it’s a Southern thing, and most people outside the South are going to understand it in different terms.
The sentiment, that if the existing government no longer represents us and in all reality does us harm, that we will bring government closer to home and to the people is not a bad one or a new one for that matter. We had tea parties a couple of hundred years ago over that. It just gets a bad name from the Civil War.
In a place with strong regional identity and values, it’s about sticking it to the suckers in Washington who are world’s apart.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Perry supports Texas sovereignty, not secession. I have to say that his prospects are rising fast as a potential candidate in 2012 – and does anyone else look the part of President more than him?
April 17th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Alex.. it’s a morals thing. You wouldn’t understand.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
“Perry is just hamming it up to demonstrate his disapproval for the Obama administration (admittedly to gain favor from the far right). He never actually said he supported secession, but pointed out that it is an option.” BINGO, Alex is making a mountain out of a mo-hill.
“Don’t you watch the news?” Yeah, just CNN.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Here’s Alex’ real fear. If Texas left then maybe that would be the catalyst for the fly over states to leave too. Then who would fight all the wars that Alex wants us to start? Certainly not the painty waists on the left coast or in the Northeast.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
plus ça change…
by Jay Cost
April 17th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
For once, Texas Governor Rick Perry is correct. Many conservative and libertarian Americans agree that the right of peaceful, democratic secession by state convention is a legitimate constitutional right of every state in the union.
There are only two solutions to the massive Washington national debt now threatening the economic future and prosperity of every productive American. One is peaceful secession on the state level from the Washington Empire leaving the illegitimate federal debts with the Washington and Wall Street interests who created the debts. The second alternative is a constitutional amendment by the states to cancel the Washington national debt. The cancel the Washington Debt by 12/21/2012 Constitutional Amendment is now online at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=67594690498&ref=ts
April 17th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Ron,
Reneging on the debt would be both immoral and a financial disaster. Do you know what happens when countries default? See Argentina and Russia.
Anyway, a helluva lot of those bonds are owned by Americans; directly, in their mutual funds, their pensions, their endowments, etc……
We built the debt because we’ve been lazy, gluttonous, and irresponsible. Blowing off the debt would be even more so.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Alex, why should Texas pay to bail out your Liberal Banking buddies in the Northeast?
April 17th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Which fifth? Hopefully not the gulf coast!
April 17th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Traitor is a pretty specific word, Alex. When one has the legitimate right to do something, I’m pretty certain it would be difficult to prove him a traitor. Texas, by law, has the right of secession; ergo, no traitor.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Kristofer, the sentiment was alive and well amongst many of my fellow law students a couple of years ago when I was at University of Houston.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Traitors support KBH; maybe we should return the favor and support Mr. Toomey in PA.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
On the one hand, I’d like to see the coal states like WV band together, hoist the Coiled Snake “Don’t Tread on Me” flag, and head for the constitutional escape hatch — in particular before all the eco freaks get their Cap’n Trade enacted. Bottom line: I’m with Texas and Alaska on this one.
On the other hand, the idea of following geniuses like Perry and DeLay to the exit… well… hoo, boy!
April 17th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Although I have not endorsed a candidate for 2012 yet (leaning Palin) I have to say that a Perry/Ridge ticket would be pretty formidable.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Pruce,
Forget Ridge. He’s not going to be in the running.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Was the qualifier “once Socialism is fully implemented in the U.S.” put in the survey, or are they talking about secession today?
April 17th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
I’ll tell you what’s attractive about Gov. Perry, besides the fact he understands important parts of the U.S. Constitution. He cares about his constituents. He stands up for his people. Haven’t seen that in quite some time in this country.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
How come Mr. Obama doesn’t address this? Is that guy even living in the country anymore? Is anybody driving this ship?
April 17th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Admittedly, I’ve thought about secession for quite some time. If I could live in an area governed by true conservatives, with conservative neighbors, it might be boring, but I would appreciate the decency and prosperity.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Liz, Obama is busy trying to arrange a face-to-face with Castro.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Obama is also busy kissing Chavez’ big butt.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Ohio, What does TX secession have to do with Toomey?
April 17th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
“Ohio, What does TX secession have to do with Toomey?” Nothing directly, but if the Spector camp is going to primary Mr. Perry with KBH, we will remember that there is also a primary going on in PA.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
KBH is not in the “Specter camp”. She’s way more conservative.
April 17th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
I’ll say the same thing to those Texans as I said to all of the “I’ll move to Canada” Democrats…leave. If you don’t care enough to stay and fight for what you believe then get the hell out. We’ll be better off without you.
April 17th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
I’m lovin’ the Texans right now. Talk about standing up for your rights and freedom. Put the heat on the socialist agenda, people. Let’s get back to our roots. If it gets to the point that Texas breaks off, believe me, I’m doing everything to be on the Texas side of the border at breakpoint before that Berlin wall goes up.
Ol’ Judas Obama there selling us off cheap to Chavez there. I saw the pics of that tet-a-tet Lorelli. Not likin’ that one bit.
April 17th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Casey, the Texans and their chief are fighting. What do you think is going on? They are leading the charge. You think they’re fleeing?
April 17th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Some of you people horrify me. Anyone who would even suggest that a person should want to leave the country is overtly flirting with anti-Americanism.
Some of you people, like MWS, say that the country is being ruined. You conflate America with its federal government, just like the BDS people of the past eight years. You people are no better than they are.
April 17th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Liz, I think the Texans are a bunch of brats that want to take their ball and go home because the other team is ahead right now. I have absolutely no respect for them. None.
April 17th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
#37 Casey,
Let’s be careful here. Only 18 percent of Texans in the survey supoort secession. I suspect that any number of states would have similar numbers. Think back to 2006 and the constant negative Iraq War coverage when that “rascally Republican” was president. If Californians were asked whether they wanted to secede I have a sneaky suspicion that the number would have been higher than 18 percent.
So let’s not dump on Texas here.
April 17th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Alex,
“Some of you people, like MWS, say that the country is being ruined. You conflate America with its federal government”
It’s not just the government. Pick up a WSJ sometime. The economy is in the crapper. Top all that off with teenage pregnancy, a nation of children on Ritalin, 50% divorce, high school seniors who can’t find Mexico on a map. 1/3 of the country that wants socialism, a million abortions a year, around $3 trillion in consumer debt (give or take), and an American hasn’t held the heavyweight title in I don’t know how many years.
Need I go on?
April 17th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
…….on the plus side of the ledger, my Marlins are 9-1.
April 17th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
It’s not just the government. Pick up a WSJ sometime. The economy is in the crapper. Top all that off with teenage pregnancy, a nation of children on Ritalin, 50% divorce, high school seniors who can’t find Mexico on a map. 1/3 of the country that wants socialism, a million abortions a year, around $3 trillion in consumer debt (give or take), and an American hasn’t held the heavyweight title in I don’t know how many years.
One-third of the country wants “socialism,” because you people keep defining it as “What Obama Is Doing.” So people think “Oh, that’s socialism. OK, I like socialism, then, I guess, if what the GOP is offering is capitalism.”
The economy is in the crapper right now…goodness, you act like you’ve never seen a recession before.
A nation of children on Ritalin — time to secede!
Yeah, all in all, your points are a great reason to end the United States! This project is a failure!
April 17th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Alex,
I didn’t say I would necessarily support secession. But it’s not something I think should ever be completely ruled out either.
“When in the course of human events…….”
April 17th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Alex,
And in your *horror* over the notion of secession, and your implication that it would end life as we know, YOU are the one conflating the country with the federal government. Our country is a LOT bigger than Washington- literally and figuratively.
April 18th, 2009 at 12:01 am
This is all moot anyway. Perry’s (not even) threats for secession are about as serious as when the wacko libs threatened to bolt to Soviet Canuckistan after George Bush’s reelection.
April 18th, 2009 at 12:05 am
Adam,
Of course. We’re just thinking aloud.
April 18th, 2009 at 12:14 am
It’s an interesting question though. What would it take for each of us to push for secession? Paying 35k in taxes on a 50k salary? Widespread lawlessness? Oppressive government? Revoking the second amendment rights?
Personally I think that anyone receiving welfare should not be allowed to vote. It’s a conflict of interest. Welfare programs are needed. Anyone can be down on their luck and find themselves in a bad situation. That’s fine. But I think that if you are on the government dole then you should have to get yourself a job before you can vote again (aside from genuine disability). Imagine if a politician proposed that! The courts would be all over it and you’d probably be called a racist (not to mention you’d lose your election). But how refreshing would it be to have someone stand up and say “NO!” to the freeloaders?
April 18th, 2009 at 1:07 am
Alex,
It’s a realization of what America actually is. Government is derived from the people. When it gets removed from that and becomes its own beast, we’ve got an inherent right to cut the strings. Obviously that’s not where we are right now, not by a long shot (hence Perry nor anyone else is going to seriously push secession) but it’s a solid idea that would be much more sensible if the situation actually ever called for it.
The sentiment we’re seeing with all the federal irresponsibility is a good one – that we can do better ourselves, and don’t need the government imposing on us the end of our prosperity.
April 18th, 2009 at 2:15 am
This is all moot anyway. Perry’s (not even) threats for secession are about as serious as when the wacko libs threatened to bolt to Soviet Canuckistan after George Bush’s reelection.
Except that Perry is the governor of the largest red state in the union, not the head of Code Pink!
April 18th, 2009 at 2:18 am
I would declare the American project a failure if free speech were truly stifled, freedom of the press ended, dissent were truly squashed, or a president refused to give up power peaceably. Really dire stuff like that, not a freaking spending policy disagreement.
April 18th, 2009 at 6:20 am
“Let’s be careful here. Only 18 percent of Texans in the survey supoort secession.”
We are talking about sovereignty first, not outright secession. If Alex and his friends don’t get on the 10th amendment train then they can look themselves in the mirror if the country does fall apart. Blaming Texas, the American tax-payer, Mr. Keyes and the Veterans (like Mrs. Napolitano) is just a bunch of stupid childishness and it not unifying the country.
“Except that Perry is the governor of the largest red state in the union, not the head of Code Pink!” Once again you only see one slice of reality. The only reason Mr. Perry is rattling the saber is because that is the only language you people understand. Out of control spending and the 10th amendment not being followed among other things does not seem to bother you people, but Texas asserting it rights and it hits the fan all of a sudden. If people did their jobs properly they would not have to worry about any of the states asserting their rights, but apparently, those running the show do not understand the constitution, nor do they understand how a free market should operate.
April 18th, 2009 at 7:51 am
What I like about what Perry is doing is that it forces a conversation about the limits of federal power, and raising an alternative to the prevalent mentality that the government has the power to do Whatever It Takes to solve problem X. Obama seems to operate under the mentality that since he is a man of good will (not like those nasty tyrants of old) that he can legitimately do Whatever It Takes (in his own mind) to solve the problems (as he perceives them) of this country. I truly think he considers his own imagination to be the only limits to what he can legitimately do.
April 18th, 2009 at 7:53 am
Of course, if my beloved Illinois were to secede, we’d have to saw off Chicago and sink it in Lake Michigan first. Otherwise, we’re out of the frying pan, and into the fire!
April 18th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Sure. But Perry didn’t actually say he supported secession. If and when he does I’ll be the first one to say that he is out of his gourd.
April 18th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Knepper, you faux “Republican” freak: We just gave you your 15 minutes of fame over at Libertarian Republican blog, for this absurd piece of journalism trash.
April 18th, 2009 at 10:48 am
There are 19 Terroritories of the United States: Some virtually unknown, such as Palmyra Island, Howard Island, Wake, Midway, Navassa Island, Seranilla Banks and Bajo Nuevo.
Additionally, 5 Alaskan islands were turned over to Russia under the Clinton administration, despite the unanimous protestations of the Alaska Legislature. They’re closer to the AK mainland, than to Russia, and are still uninhabited.
And Clinton also turned over 5 tiny islands to Kirabati in the Pacific in the 1990s.
There’s now serious talk by some of using these Territories as a launching pad for a nationwide Territorial Autonomy movement, or “Free Territory Project” modeled after New Hampshire’s Free Staters.
April 18th, 2009 at 11:03 am
A little too far right for my liking. I think we should focus on fixing the country rather than threatening to turn tail and run and do our own thing.
Things might not be going the way we want them to, but we don’t live in a socialist government yet, and this is still an amazing country to live in. Just let the dems make a bad name for themselves. Why should we think of doing anything right now to label ourselves as anti-american?
April 18th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Dondero v. Knepper? A battle of the titans, hahahaah
April 18th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Alex: Have you been to Texas before? The flag of the State of Texas is flown everywhere, and not just on government buildings like here in California. And when it is flown w/ the US flag the Texas flag is flown on top (the only place I have EVER seen that). They have a World War II memorial somewhere in Hill Country that has a plaque stating it is dedicated “to all the servicement who died defending the State of Texas.” I swear to God.
And, contra #8, Texas is NOT a Southern state. Texas was only nominally part of the confederacy, it would probably be more accurate to say that during the Civil War Texas spent more time fighting its own civil war within the state with those who vehemently opposed joining the confederacy than participating in the one Grant and Lee fought. And Texans don’t thing of themselves as Southerners, they think of themselves as Texans (I’ve seen more confederate flag bumper stickers here in Southern California than I did during either of my 3 trips to Houston). Want further proof? Call a Texan a Southerner to his face and see what happens (just make sure he isn’t bigger than you and doesn’t have any friends nearby. And that you aren’t in the State of Texas at the time).
April 18th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
“Alex: Have you been to Texas before? The flag of the State of Texas is flown everywhere,” I once went to an international gathering outside the U.S. where participants waved their national flags (or their regional or Provincial flag) I saw many Texan flags being waved, but I do not recall any other state flags being waved. In short, Texans are a proud people and it is not wise to mess with them. Alex and other who chose to start a silly contest against them do so at their own peril.
April 18th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Dondero, lying about me as usual: first, by calling me a “RINO,” then by saying that I “wrote Palin off as a ‘rightwing extremist’” — as if I’d ever use such a stupid term.
April 18th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
I’d like to see a poll of other states on secession. I’d bet it’d be much lower than 18%. And remember, this is just a starting point. As more people talk it up, the idea will grow. I’ll move to Texas in a heartbeat if it begins to truly debate secession.
April 18th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
The first state to secede from the federal government with the intent of providing its citizens more freedom from government interference, I will move to that state, take up arms, and help them defend their secession.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
The best part is there will be no more texans running for president. Hell, Bush could run again to be president of texas and he could invade the US based on flawed information that we are converting our nuke plants into weapons for use against texans. You don’t like it , leave. Just remember, the last 8 years which has now bropught the contry to it’s knees was caused my a moron from texas.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
The best part is there will be no more texans running for president. Hell, Bush could run again to be president of texas and he could invade the US based on flawed information that we are converting our nuke plants into weapons for use against texans. You don’t like it , leave. Just remember, the last 8 years which has now brought the country to it’s knees was caused my a moron from texas.