I really, really wish that Michael had phrased his criticisms of the Missouri legistaive initiative differently, because I think that his bombast obscures the important point that he is trying to make; namely, that the continued focus by some Conservatives/Republicans on the location of Obama birth plays directly into the hands to people like Ben Smith, who as Michael stated in the comments section, does seem to awake each morning anew to serve the Obama Administration.
The bottom-line is this: Ben Smith, Politico, CNN, etc…, would not highlight these stories if they did not feel that they helped the administration by making Republicans and conservatives generally appear foolish and/or xenophobes, or worse. That fact that elected Republicans in the Missouri Legislature are behind this makes it even worse, as it is hard to write them off as simply the lunatic fringe.
The evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii is absolutely overwhelming. But even if it were not, I would ask you to come up with a reasonable scenario of what you would hope to happen if it was proved to not be so.
What does anyone hope to find that would prove conclusively that Obama was born in Kenya? Sans film of Ann Dunham giving birth in a Kenyan hospital, what evidence could possibly be presented that the MSM would accept and report to the American Public as valid?*
The answer is: there is none… So the only thing that this line of attack will bring is to continue to cast the Republican party in a horrible light.
So for goshsakes, can we please drop this already and get to work rebuilding a viable political majority?
______________________________________________________________________________
*Even if there was not overwhelming evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, his mother–Ann Dunham–was a natural-born U.S. Citizen. So even if she did give birth to him in Kenya, since when do we not allow children of U.S. citizens born abroad to become President?
March 4th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Well there’s certain law called constitution and say that in order to be president of the USA it is necessary that the candidate be a natural born american.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Falz,
So were George Romney and John McCain ineligible to be President as well?
March 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
“So John McCain is ineligible to be President as well?”
Yes, you have made your point Kavon, but don’t you understand why some of us are shall we say questioning the fact that the shoe is on the other foot if you will?
March 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
“I really, really wish that Michael had…” Translation: you’re fired! jk
but what is the definition of a natural born citizen. does anyone know? is it spelled out explicitly in the constitution?
March 4th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Ohio Joe,
I am saying, “Pick Your battles…”
Only a fool fights a battle that he cannot possibly win.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Well, that was resolved in court last year.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Kavon, while I understand your frustration, this really is a REAL issue. First off, Obama is the first presidential candidate in HISTORY to not provide an original copy of his birth certificate, which in itself leads to suspicion. So, in reality, Obama has brought all of this on himself.
Not only is there the problem of not having a original copy of the birth certificate, you have Kenyan relatives (including his VERY OWN GRANDMOTHER) that say he was born in Nairobi. I believe she said she remembered “holding him in her arms” and being there for the birth. Now, she was NOT in Hawaii, so…?
And regarding his mother being a U.S. citizen, I believe she was not at the age at which she could pass along her citizenship to her offspring. She was 16 when Obama was born, and I believe you have to have been a citizen, regardless of whether or not you were born here, for 17 years.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
And John McCain was born on a U.S. military base, which gives him automatic citizenship.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
BTW, with respect, these Sons of Guns questioned Mr. Bush’s 2000 & even 2004 victory and now act like a bunch of cry-babies because a few people question Mr. Obama, C’mon. I have never said that Mr. Obama is not my President. And I am not threatening to bugger of to Canada unlike some other clowns. American is the best country in the world despite our President. It would have been nice if a few Democrats showed even half as much respect to Mr. Bush!
March 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
“And John McCain was born on a U.S. military base, which gives him automatic citizenship.” BINGO, apples and oranges both may be fruit, but …..
March 4th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Alright Kavon, I’ll calm down. I never said, I supported the fight, I was just putting things in perspective.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Do you have proof of this? Did George Washington show a copy of his birth certificate, and if so, to whom?
March 4th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
They likely have not and never will release it because they know that some segments will continue to pursue this line of attack and they can continue to have their allies in the MSM use it against the Republicans and the Conservative Movement generally. Obama’s political team will continue to outflank their opponents apparently.
People might want to pick up a copy of “The Art of War” or somethin’… Just saying…
March 4th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
No, this was NEVER resolved in a court of law. All these lawsuits were dismissed, not on the merits, but on STANDING. That these citizens had no right to question Dear Leader. Obama must show not only his BC, but his medical and school records. How do we know he didn’t get into these schools as a foreign Indonesian citizen named Barry Soetoro.
This whole conspiracy can either be proven or debunked one EASY way — for Obama to produce his records! We the People should not demand anything less than the man who is the steward of the nation.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
George Romney was born in Mexico (Colonia Dublán, Galeana, in the Mexican state of Chihuahua to be exact.) His right to run for President never was or ever has been an issue.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
applause to Kavon for this good-faith post, it is smart and useful.
did anyone ever see George Bush’s birth certificate? who did he “provide” it to? was there outcry during his first campaign that he may have been born elsewhere? what *proof* did he show and to whom? when did this happen? how about Clinton? did anyone ever prove, or ask to prove, in a court of law that Clinton was was born in the U.S.? i don’t understand TC’s point in #7 that Obama is the first person to run for president not to do these things. can you provide links to when Bush or Clinton “provided” someone with an official birth certificate?
the birthers are starting from the conclusion (Obama just *couldn’t* be an American or be telling the truth about his birth), and then working backwards, throwing out any evidence (like the birth announcement) along the way that doesn’t fit their story. they’ll never be convinced. they would never ask to see George Bush’s birth certificate, because they aren’t starting from a baseless conclusion that he isn’t American.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
With respect, Kavon that is because Mr. G. Romney was born of American parents. Again, Mr. Obama is our President, but it is funny how people get excited about a few people in MO., but give the Dems a pass for their bad behavior for 8 years.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Thank you Otherwise. But it was more like trying to clean up the mess Michael made
March 4th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
What are you really saying exactly? That Ann Dunham was not an American? Or that she was not his real mother?
Good luck with the second one, as Barack Obama looks just like her.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Kavon, you’re absolutely right on this. But you’re never going to introduce reason to some folks.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Kavon is right – if you’re born of a US Citizen, you’re a US citizen period, no matter where you’re born. For instance, if my cousin, who is a natural born American citizen, has a child while they are living in Australia, the child is an American citizen.
And what of Gamecock’s continuing postings alleging that Obama is an agent of Kenya? How does that make you appear?
March 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Someone who is a citizen the moment they are born – for instance, a child born to an American citizen anywhere in the world – as opposed to a person comes here from another country and seek citizenship. Like Ahnold, for example. It’s really not that hard.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Obama is Chauncey Gardiner, not The Manchurian Candidate.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Well then, instead on focusing on where Obama was actually born, why not then focus on how Obama became an Indonesian citizen by attending a school where only Indonesian citizens could go, and how he traveled to Pakistan at a when US citizens were banned from traveling there. Did Obama go on an Indonesian passport?
These are legitimate questions, and the suit questioning Obama’s eligibility go far beyond the whole Birth Certificate issue…Philip Berg, who filed the original suit against Obama in August, and who is a LIFELONG DEMOCRAT, discovered that even if Obama was born in Hawaii, he still has to answer for his Indonesian citizen.
Trust me folks! This issue is a serious one IS NOT GOING AWAY! We may very well have an imposter, a usurper, a fraud in the White House. It will continue until Obama release his records. Research the facts of what these cases are based and what remedy is being sought by these attorneys. They simply want Obama to prove them wrong by releasing his records to a court of law, and proving he is eligible.
Ask yourself this — if these lawsuits have no merit, why then does Obama keeping fighting them and spends $100,000s to fight them instead of producing these documents and ending all of this!? I’ll tell you why — HE’S HIDING SOMETHING DAMAGING!
March 4th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Actually, that’s a better description of your last effort at a Republican VP candidate and the last GOP fellow you elected as president. Both kind of stumbled into their roles.
Fredrick – you run with that and let’s see where it goes.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Fredrick,
I am not sure what law school you graduated from, but none of the things you described would cause someone to lose their US Citizenship.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
The Red Ryder fans are certainly out in force on this list.
For those of you too young to remember, the song goes like this:
“Lunatic Fringe, I know you’re out there….”
March 4th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Frederick (14) I was responding to Kevon about the case of John McCain, that was resolve in court last summer.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Kavon – The Art of War rules.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
First: What a stupid law. We are a nation of immigrants and we prevent citizens from running for the top office in the land? Nuts!
Second: We did not even strip citizenship away from American’s (of Germanic ancestry) who fought for the Hitler’s army in WW2.
Finally: Do we really want a constitutional crisis on our hands? Although these claims are false, our country would implode if actual facts were discovered questioning Obama’s right to the Presidency. Let us avoid this.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
“Death in the wilderness
It’s a hopeless case I guess”…
March 4th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
How to ensure your US Citizenship is Revoked;
1. Convicted For An Act Of Treason Against The United States
2. Holding A Policy Level Position In A Foreign Country
3. Serving In Your Native Country’s Armed Forces If That Country Is Engaged In Hostilities Or At War With The United States
4. Serving In Your Native Country’s Armed Forces As An Officer Or A Non-Commissioned Officer
5. Lying To The USCIS During The Naturalization Process
March 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
29
Alex and Kavon,
Have you guys read The Book of Five Rings?
March 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
OK Kristoff, then WHY doesn’t Obama just release his damn records his what you are saying is true? It’s because he knows he isn’t eligible. He knows his records will show he is a fraud!
We are already in a Constitutional Crisis. Obama is a usurper President. What do you think will be worse, the aftermath of dealing with the truth being revealed or a massive economic depression and loss of our sovereignty due to his radical policies.
We really don’t know a thing about his guy. He has now waged a full on assault on capitalism, prosperity, schievement, etc, and it sending us into massive debt that will hurt our economy for decades, and who don’t even care to know the truth about who this guy is?
Where is your loyalty to our country for heavens sake!? How can you blindly support and accept this President who is showing how much he hates this country and what it stands for!?
March 4th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
#34 – Cuckoo! Cuckoo!
Kavon already addressed Obama’s reluctance to provide a BC in post #13, if you’d bother to read it. I’ll summarize for you:
Because kooks like YOU that keep harping on this non-issue make every sane Republican look like they’re ready for the looney bin. It’s good politics, if you’re a Democrat.
March 4th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
“we really don’t know a thing about this guy.”
um, yeah, we do. you just have decided that none of it is true, which is your prerogative. but you’re making a circular argument: you think obama is a fraud, so any evidence that doesn’t fit your theory – like the birth announcement posted earlier today – is suspect and not convincing. you keep asking questions to which there are already answers, and you say they’re unanswered because you don’t trust obama and you don’t believe his answers. he just *couldn’t* be who he says he is, you think. so there must be some answer that’s hidden, some reason he isn’t legitimate, some way he’s lying.
again: who has seen george bush’s birth certificate? or bill clinton’s? who even asked for them? if you haven’t seen them, why do you trust their documented story any more than you trust obama’s?
March 4th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
From what I understand it is true that it has been defined that a person has to have been a citizen for 17 years minimum in order to be able to pass their citizenship on. Also, it seems that its true that the school in Indonesia would not allow anyone with dual citizenship to attend. Now, whether the parents renouncing his citizenship woulld really do so or not would be something for the courts to decide. I wish you people who think this should be left alone would stop the name calling. Many of us who are not in any way wierdoes have been posting on here for a long time, and we happen to believe its not out of line to allow the courts to serve their function in this case and decide a rather complex issue. If you don’t think its complex, then that’s your prerogative, and the courts should be able to make fast work of it.
March 4th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
This is the “right’s” response to the “George Bush stole the election” tantrum, you dignify it with your treatments of it.
March 4th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
30 – I think a “constitutional crisis” would be overstating things. We would just have President Biden instead. Not that I give credence to this stuff.
March 4th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
“What are you really saying exactly? That Ann Dunham was not an American? Or that she was not his real mother?”
I am saying nothing of the sort. I was not challenging anyone’s right to to President. I still find it funny how Mr. Doerr is opening up a get of worms.
March 4th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Illinoisguy:
With respect, look at your own comments. “From what I understand it is true that” and “it seems that its true that” are not factual responses in any way shape or form. Yet at the same time birthers nitpick actual, hard evidence like the birth announcement and the certificate of live birth. See a contradiction there?
One more point, Michael’s post originally pointed out — that birth announcement made
it into a paper more than 45 years ago. That means that there was a conspiracy going
back to his birth to cover up the truth about his birth. And if Obama’s cabal had
that kind of power, why didn’t they just, you know, fly him to the United States
so he could be born here? Seems like it would be a lot simpler than seeding false
stories about his birth in local newspapers and forging a “certificate of life birth”
March 4th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Illinoisguy:
With respect, look at your own comments. “From what I understand it is true that” and “it seems that its true that” are not factual responses in any way shape or form. Yet at the same time birthers nitpick actual, hard evidence like the birth announcement and the certificate of live birth. See a contradiction there?
One more point, Michael’s post originally pointed out — that birth announcement made
it into a paper more than 45 years ago. That means that there was a conspiracy going
back to his birth to cover up the truth about his birth. And if Obama’s cabal had
that kind of power, why didn’t they just, you know, fly him to the United States
so he could be born here? Seems like it would be a lot simpler than seeding false
stories about his birth in local newspapers and forging a “certificate of life birth”
March 4th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Sean P – What is not factual about them. I’ve seen the evidence point to the 17 year thing, so why not you show how to refute it? It seemed fairly credible, but I’ll readily admit I could be wrong. But rather than you telling me its not factual, why not show me and everyone else that there is no such thing as the 17 year rule/law. Also, it has been alleged that the Indonesian school had the citizenship rule, agree? Why not show me that there was no such rule rather than telling me its not factual. Those things may not be true, but I’ve seen what appears to be evidence saying that they are, and they have more credence as of now than you just telling me they are not. Understand?
March 5th, 2009 at 8:31 am
I’ve seen the evidence point to the 17 year thing, so why not you show how to refute it?
It doesn’t matter if there is a 17-year rule or 20- or 30-year rule. He was a citizen the moment he was born because his mother was a citizen. What part of that don’t you get?
March 5th, 2009 at 9:05 am
And what part don’t you get Caroline that Mr. Bush won more votes than Mr. Gore in Florida? What comes around goes around; that is what people do not get.
March 5th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Illinoisguy, its impossible to “prove the negative.” Its up to you
to prove there is a “17 year old rule” by quoting and citing it by USC number.
March 5th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Thanks, Michael.