Liberal New York Times columnist Thomas L. Friedman wrote the following today. Whether Obama will say this publicly, I am sure this is exactly how he feels too.
If someone can produce any type of car that will save energy, whether it be electric or a hybrid vehicle, that costs me less money than I would pay for a regular car, and I will buy it. It’s all about the free market. Changing the type of cars we drive is the solution, not having a “floor” on the gas prices.
Yeah, I don’t dig that. To be fair, though, we wouldn’t be having this conversation without high gas prices. At some point, we should get off oil to help the environment, I do believe that, even if global warming isn’t man-made; pollution is disgusting. High gas prices are pushing us to start, and that’s not a terrible thing.
But yeah, I don’t support a floor, certainly not without a concurrent ceiling.
Astounding… and Friedman is totally oblivious to the massive flaw in his argument: there’s absolutely no evidence that the astronomical gas prices in Europe (which he apparently cites as a model) has led to any increase in energy conservation, breakthroughs in alternative energy research, or reductions in carbon emissions. Oh, but as of late they have started to lead to aggressive protests and strikes by European truckers. Sign us up!
Massive flaw #2: He also approvingly notes that the market is having the desired effect, as Americans move towards more fuel efficient cars. But God forbid an efficient market works its will – lets permanently warp it!
What an out-of-touch tool Tom Friedman has become. It’s his brain that has gone flat.
David A B, don’t you think Obama basically feels the same way Friedman does, whether he’ll say it publicly? And using Europe as an example is nonsense. Liberals have always liked Europe better. That’s why they don’t like wearing flag pins. However, it is much easier to pay high prices for gas in Europe because things are closer together. Rural voters who have to drive a long way to get to work or to the grocery store can’t afford a $4 gas floor that Tom Friedman wants, though I’m sure he doesn’t know any rural people. Hillary has complained about gas prices being so high whereas Obama celebrated it because people are changing their habits. Why do you think some rural counties in Kentucky that are not conservative counties (they went for Kerry in 2004) voted over 90% for Hillary after Obama is the inevitable nominee. It’s not all about race. I think gas prices has a lot to do with it too. That’s just my theory.
Count me as one who thinks that pollution sucks, but that isn’t the issue here. My issue with energy is that our massive demand in the international oil market makes us a hostage to foreign countries (many of them not our friends) and to the reality that we use oil faster than the earth creates it. No matter how much oil is in the Gulf of Mexico or ANWAR, it will eventually run out without a change in behavior. Friedman is correct that we need to go to an electric fleet, and I’m with Kevin in supporting a Nuclear+Wind+Solar solution.
It would be refreshing to hear McCain talking about this rather than global warming.
I agree Clarence… Obama tends to fall for every trendy liberal trope and this is certainly one of the biggest ones.
I think there’ve been some studies showing a direct correlation between voting patterns and gas prices, and I don’t think anyone can look at Obama and think he’d be willing to do what’s necessary to actually lower them. The problem is, the increases have occurred under a nominally Republican administration.
But Jay Leno’s construct from a few weeks ago holds true – “Democrats oppose more drilling in Alaska because it would take 10 years for that oil to get into the pipeline. Of course, that was in 1998.” If McCain can hammer on this kind of point he can take some of the “future” mojo from BHO.
We are such idiots! We can do all we can do to create less demand, but the price won’t go down, because our enemies are controlling the supply. If our demand goes down for any reason whatsoever, the supply will decrease also. They are never going to allow prices to reduce again, unless we begin as fast as possible moving towards energy independence. We need to do all we can as fast as possible to develop alternative energy, but all that is way too far down the road to have any immediate impact. The only thing we can do to have a quick reduction in price is to drill and produce our own oil. We have way over 200 years left, and just the threat of us moving to energy independence at a rapid rate will cause the prices to fall. As soon as the speculators see that begin to happen, the bottom will drop out. But our congressman are so idiotic that they can’t see that, or they else they want high prices at election time.
David, McCain doesn’t support drilling. Maybe I’m missing something. As to Obama, I would take his calls for us to lower the thermostat and stop driving so much a little more seriously if he didn’t live in a 1.65 million dollar house.
I don’t know if any of you are from New England. If you are, you may have heard of radio talk show host Michael Graham. He said recently that SUV drivers and eventually drivers in general will be like the next cigarette smokers. I saw Friedman imply that in the article too, guess Graham had that pegged right.
I’m doing ok…not sure when operation is, but now I have to go see lung specialist because they see some stuff in both lungs that doesn’t belong there either. So, feeling ok, but not great news.
It’s funny, most true liberals want a higher gas tax, but in New Hampshire last time, Governor Lynch took a quote from the GOP nominee out of context and said he wanted to raise gas taxes. The Democrats put up signs all over the state saying “Stop the Coburn gas tax”
I think he could be more subtle than that… but that’s the gist. I think he can call for increased domestic production – not necessarily specific to Alaska – that’s focused on more investment in new extraction technologies (the kind that could potentially tap the large Baaken reserves in North Dakota, for example.)
He already has called for a temporary halt to filling the SPR, which I don’t think really resonates with most votes, nor do I think it has much public policy impact.
There are between 800,000 billion and two trillion barrels that can come from the oil shale in Utah, COlorado, and Montana. The investors are eager to do it, because their engineers estimate they can make a profit at around $40 per barrel, so to develop that technology will cause prices to plummet, but first we need to increase traditional USA production in ANWAR or off shor drilling, etc.
That’s why I’m absolutely dedicated to ending Obama’s campaign of hypocrisy. Democrats attack John McCain and Republicans for taking such a tough stance against welfare and poverty aid, and then propose crap like this. Maybe you, Thomas L. Friedman, can afford to pay for $4/gallon gas, but some of us already spend 1/4 of our monthly salary in gas. Which sucks when we’re spending 1/2 of it on rent. Oh yeah, and your groceries are going to get more expensive. Sorry guys! I would give you some kind of help, like maybe making you not have to pay taxes or helping pay for your tuition, but your parents can afford to put you through college, can’t they? Or maybe you could buy a new car, you anti environmentalist!
Barack Obama and Thomas L. Friedman: I can haz your paycheck?
Robbie, do you see why some of the poorest counties voted 90% for Hillary? Say what you want about her, but she doesn’t talk the way Friedman and Obama do.
I do. I would vote for Hillary any day over Obama the elitist. She understands the plight of the average American- not even the impoverished, just the average- when gas reaches this unbelievable amount.
Robbie, you are cracking me up. Why exactly does Hillary understand the average American? Because Hillary pandered on the gas tax? Because she used to shoot with her uncle in NW PA? Because she did a shot at a bar? She’s had a security detail since 1992.
For what it is worth, Friedman is absolutely, positively right. If anything, we need to raise taxes on gas in the long term.
It cracks me up how people can on the one hand say, “we need to get off of oil and into alternatives” without simultaneously understanding that, really, the only way to do that (in general) is to INCREASE THE PRICE OF OIL!
The thing is, the price of oil is already artificially low because of the significant amount of money our government spends in order to keep the global flow of oil safe and secure.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:25 am
He’s right about one thing, though:
“We need to make a structural shift in our energy economy. Ultimately, we need to move our entire fleet to plug-in electric cars.”
Nuclear/solar/wind + plug-in cars = happy.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:28 am
If someone can produce any type of car that will save energy, whether it be electric or a hybrid vehicle, that costs me less money than I would pay for a regular car, and I will buy it. It’s all about the free market. Changing the type of cars we drive is the solution, not having a “floor” on the gas prices.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Yeah, I don’t dig that. To be fair, though, we wouldn’t be having this conversation without high gas prices. At some point, we should get off oil to help the environment, I do believe that, even if global warming isn’t man-made; pollution is disgusting. High gas prices are pushing us to start, and that’s not a terrible thing.
But yeah, I don’t support a floor, certainly not without a concurrent ceiling.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Astounding… and Friedman is totally oblivious to the massive flaw in his argument: there’s absolutely no evidence that the astronomical gas prices in Europe (which he apparently cites as a model) has led to any increase in energy conservation, breakthroughs in alternative energy research, or reductions in carbon emissions. Oh, but as of late they have started to lead to aggressive protests and strikes by European truckers. Sign us up!
Massive flaw #2: He also approvingly notes that the market is having the desired effect, as Americans move towards more fuel efficient cars. But God forbid an efficient market works its will – lets permanently warp it!
What an out-of-touch tool Tom Friedman has become. It’s his brain that has gone flat.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:39 am
David A B, don’t you think Obama basically feels the same way Friedman does, whether he’ll say it publicly? And using Europe as an example is nonsense. Liberals have always liked Europe better. That’s why they don’t like wearing flag pins. However, it is much easier to pay high prices for gas in Europe because things are closer together. Rural voters who have to drive a long way to get to work or to the grocery store can’t afford a $4 gas floor that Tom Friedman wants, though I’m sure he doesn’t know any rural people. Hillary has complained about gas prices being so high whereas Obama celebrated it because people are changing their habits. Why do you think some rural counties in Kentucky that are not conservative counties (they went for Kerry in 2004) voted over 90% for Hillary after Obama is the inevitable nominee. It’s not all about race. I think gas prices has a lot to do with it too. That’s just my theory.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Europe has lower carbon emissions per dollar of GDP than the US.
It’s also a fact that most electric automobile research has occurred in Europe and Japan (areas with high fuel costs).
On the other point, I think David A, is right. The costs of government interference aren’t worth the benefits on energy.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:43 am
That nut from California Maxine Waters wants to nationalize the oil industry she said yesterday.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Count me as one who thinks that pollution sucks, but that isn’t the issue here. My issue with energy is that our massive demand in the international oil market makes us a hostage to foreign countries (many of them not our friends) and to the reality that we use oil faster than the earth creates it. No matter how much oil is in the Gulf of Mexico or ANWAR, it will eventually run out without a change in behavior. Friedman is correct that we need to go to an electric fleet, and I’m with Kevin in supporting a Nuclear+Wind+Solar solution.
It would be refreshing to hear McCain talking about this rather than global warming.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Does she want to nationalize the housing industry while we’re at it?
May 28th, 2008 at 9:48 am
I agree Clarence… Obama tends to fall for every trendy liberal trope and this is certainly one of the biggest ones.
I think there’ve been some studies showing a direct correlation between voting patterns and gas prices, and I don’t think anyone can look at Obama and think he’d be willing to do what’s necessary to actually lower them. The problem is, the increases have occurred under a nominally Republican administration.
But Jay Leno’s construct from a few weeks ago holds true – “Democrats oppose more drilling in Alaska because it would take 10 years for that oil to get into the pipeline. Of course, that was in 1998.” If McCain can hammer on this kind of point he can take some of the “future” mojo from BHO.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:51 am
We are such idiots! We can do all we can do to create less demand, but the price won’t go down, because our enemies are controlling the supply. If our demand goes down for any reason whatsoever, the supply will decrease also. They are never going to allow prices to reduce again, unless we begin as fast as possible moving towards energy independence. We need to do all we can as fast as possible to develop alternative energy, but all that is way too far down the road to have any immediate impact. The only thing we can do to have a quick reduction in price is to drill and produce our own oil. We have way over 200 years left, and just the threat of us moving to energy independence at a rapid rate will cause the prices to fall. As soon as the speculators see that begin to happen, the bottom will drop out. But our congressman are so idiotic that they can’t see that, or they else they want high prices at election time.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:53 am
David, McCain doesn’t support drilling. Maybe I’m missing something. As to Obama, I would take his calls for us to lower the thermostat and stop driving so much a little more seriously if he didn’t live in a 1.65 million dollar house.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:57 am
I don’t know if any of you are from New England. If you are, you may have heard of radio talk show host Michael Graham. He said recently that SUV drivers and eventually drivers in general will be like the next cigarette smokers. I saw Friedman imply that in the article too, guess Graham had that pegged right.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Illinoisguy is right btw, how are you feeling anyway?
May 28th, 2008 at 9:59 am
You may be right, Clarence… but there’s no reason he should take such a draconian stand in the current context.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:00 am
I’m doing ok…not sure when operation is, but now I have to go see lung specialist because they see some stuff in both lungs that doesn’t belong there either. So, feeling ok, but not great news.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:00 am
It’s funny, most true liberals want a higher gas tax, but in New Hampshire last time, Governor Lynch took a quote from the GOP nominee out of context and said he wanted to raise gas taxes. The Democrats put up signs all over the state saying “Stop the Coburn gas tax”
May 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am
David, are you suggesting McCain should say that desperate times call for desperate measurs and change his position on drilling in Alaska?
May 28th, 2008 at 10:06 am
I think he could be more subtle than that… but that’s the gist. I think he can call for increased domestic production – not necessarily specific to Alaska – that’s focused on more investment in new extraction technologies (the kind that could potentially tap the large Baaken reserves in North Dakota, for example.)
He already has called for a temporary halt to filling the SPR, which I don’t think really resonates with most votes, nor do I think it has much public policy impact.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:12 am
There are between 800,000 billion and two trillion barrels that can come from the oil shale in Utah, COlorado, and Montana. The investors are eager to do it, because their engineers estimate they can make a profit at around $40 per barrel, so to develop that technology will cause prices to plummet, but first we need to increase traditional USA production in ANWAR or off shor drilling, etc.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:28 am
That should have said 800,000 billion to two trillion barrels. Sorry.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Illinoisguy: Did you mean “800 billion to 2 trillion”?
May 28th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Get a load of this. Survey USA is now out with a poll showing McCain winning by 4 in MI.
McCain 41
Obama 37
Undecided 21
…with crosstabs showing a 39D, 29R, 27I participation.
And according to the poll, SUSA claims that Mitt helps big time in MI
(…let’s hope IL Guy doesn’t see this
…)
May 28th, 2008 at 11:14 am
#22 – Yes, its over 5 times the stated reserves of Saudi Arabia.
lol sorry about the zeros!!
May 28th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
GARBAGE.
That’s why I’m absolutely dedicated to ending Obama’s campaign of hypocrisy. Democrats attack John McCain and Republicans for taking such a tough stance against welfare and poverty aid, and then propose crap like this. Maybe you, Thomas L. Friedman, can afford to pay for $4/gallon gas, but some of us already spend 1/4 of our monthly salary in gas. Which sucks when we’re spending 1/2 of it on rent. Oh yeah, and your groceries are going to get more expensive. Sorry guys! I would give you some kind of help, like maybe making you not have to pay taxes or helping pay for your tuition, but your parents can afford to put you through college, can’t they? Or maybe you could buy a new car, you anti environmentalist!
Barack Obama and Thomas L. Friedman: I can haz your paycheck?
May 28th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Robbie, do you see why some of the poorest counties voted 90% for Hillary? Say what you want about her, but she doesn’t talk the way Friedman and Obama do.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
I do. I would vote for Hillary any day over Obama the elitist. She understands the plight of the average American- not even the impoverished, just the average- when gas reaches this unbelievable amount.
May 28th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Robbie:
You have made some good points, but in my opinion, Mrs. Clinton does not care about the average American, she is good at pretending.
May 28th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Robbie, you are cracking me up. Why exactly does Hillary understand the average American? Because Hillary pandered on the gas tax? Because she used to shoot with her uncle in NW PA? Because she did a shot at a bar? She’s had a security detail since 1992.
May 28th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
For what it is worth, Friedman is absolutely, positively right. If anything, we need to raise taxes on gas in the long term.
It cracks me up how people can on the one hand say, “we need to get off of oil and into alternatives” without simultaneously understanding that, really, the only way to do that (in general) is to INCREASE THE PRICE OF OIL!
The thing is, the price of oil is already artificially low because of the significant amount of money our government spends in order to keep the global flow of oil safe and secure.
http://www.iags.org/n1030034.htm
http://www.iags.org/costofoil.html