Huck apologizes to Romney over his Mormonism comments here:
HUCKABEE: After the debate today I went to Mitt Romney and apologized to him, because I said, I would never try, ever, to try to somehow pick out some point of your faith and make it, you know, an issue, and I wouldn’t. I’ve stayed away from talking about Mitt Romney’s faith. And I told him face to face, I said, “I don’t think your being a Mormon ought to make you more or less qualified for being a president.” That has been my position.
Wolf, everybody I’ve talked to just about wants me to come out and say something about Mitt Romney’s faith. I’ve not taken the bait, but if I don’t say something, they say that my avoiding it is really an underlying statement. If I do say anything, then I’m attacking him.
So I’m not sure how to deal with that, but I certainly am not in any way getting into that. And as I said to him, I say to you, I don’t think his particular religion is a factor in whether or not people should vote for him or against him.
BLITZER: So how did he react, Mitt Romney, when you went up to him and you said – you apologized, I guess, for that one quote?
HUCKABEE: Well, he was gracious. You know, I hope he knows it was sincere. But, you know, I’m trying to stay away from everything I can say. I’m being much more cautious now, because everything is being parsed.
Huckabee’s original statement made alot of people angry, and I was one of them. Some will question his motives, and his explanations. There have been some worrying signs on this issue from Huck in the past. But, I think we should give him credit for doing the right thing and move on.
Update: Here’s Huckabee expanding on the issue:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzzWFbHfbg4&eurl=http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/atlanticam_huckabee_apologies.php[/youtube]
December 12th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
There is a salient Mormon scripture that reads: “I, the Lord, thy God, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you, it is required to forgive all men.” By all accounts, Huck seemed sincere and gracious, so all true Mormons are bound, by God, to forgive him. Anyway, now we can get on to other stuff, like issues.
December 12th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, I really do, but the line he choose is ubiquitous in evangelical anti-Mormon literature. It’s even been copy-pasted from such by the occasional wacky commentators on this very site, before Huck said it. Actually, I think it’s been front page material on that one activist down in SC who was once a McCain supporter but moved to Fred. And why, oh why, even mention the question in an interview during a Presidential campaign?
December 12th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
i just dont buy anything hes saying. he acts like he knows nothing about Mormonism, but he was part of a group of pastors that went to Salt Lake to try and preach to Utahns they felt were being misled. sorry, not buying it. you are a tool, mike huckabee.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
While Huckabee did not mean to attack Romney or Mormonism, the fact is that the media is lying to people if they say that Mormons do not believe them to be brothers.
From the official LDS website.
“Jesus Christ and Lucifer are… spirit brothers.”
And
“Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother.”
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=4a10ef960417b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
December 12th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
His apology seems disingenuous, and I think the backlash at his bigoted comment made him realize how out of line he really was.
” After the debate today I went to Mitt Romney and apologized to him, because I said, I would never try, ever, to try to somehow pick out some point of your faith and make it, you know, an issue, and I wouldn’t. I’ve stayed away from talking about Mitt Romney’s faith.”
How can he say in that quote that he has stayed away from talking about Mitt Romney’s faith when he clearly said, “Don’t Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?”
This is clearly a side-step attempt for him to try and get out of a HUGE problem he created by a bigoted remark.
#1 – I will forgive Huck for his ignorance/bigotry, but that doesn’t mean I have to vote for him, and I think THAT fact shouldn’t get lost in the snake-oil salesman’s attempt to get himself out of a bind.
I agree however, that let’s stick to the issues. That is where Huck REALLY should apologize. His stances on the issues are DISASTROUS. There is much more of a chance for Huck to lose if he gets back to his stances on the issues, so let’s get back to those issues then . . shall we??
December 12th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
At this point the only sincere apology would be to say – mormons aren’t cultists and I have no problem considering them christians becuase they believe in Jesus Christ.
anything less than that means he stands by his anti-mormon rhetoric.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
#4 – Mark you always are missing the point . read #6.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
#4 – I’m Mormon and I believe we were all brothers and sisters as spirits ( in the sense that we all had God as a father ) before we came to earth. That includes Jesus and the spirit who fell, and became the devil. Is that a bad thing? it seems like a harmless piece of doctrine. i also believe mike huckabee is exploiting anti mormonism to boost his campaign, without having the guts to admit he is doing so.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
The fact that he apologized at all only confirms his initial rebuttle to the statement is a lie.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
#4 – Mark, this is not the forum for LDS theology, and I would kindly ask for you to stop making Romney’s religion an issue, by injecting it into the political realm. I think that Huck did himself a HUGE disservice by even uttering those words with regards to a political interview. He knows FULL WELL what he was trying to accomplish with that remark, and it BLEW UP IN HIS FACE!!! This is merely an attempt for him to get out of a REALLY BAD spot, that he put himself into with that kind of remark. While I appreciate his attempt to distance himself from such bigotry, I think he has proven his true colors in recent days by even MAKING that comment in the 1st place, and now I think his intentions will be called into question, as to whether or not it was a sincere apology.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
#4 Mark and Hitler are spirit brothers. I am not trying to attack you
December 12th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Correction to my post 2, the front pages articles I was thinking of regarded Cindy Mosteller in SC. At least in the snippets widely reported, she did not use this particular doctrine.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Jared,
I’m not making his religion an issue, I’m making an issue of the fact that the media has mischaracterized Huckabee as if he made that statement to be an issue when in fact Mormons do believe that they are brothers.
The fact is that Huckabee made it clear that the NY Times author was TELLING HIM about what Mormons believe and so he asked the question to be informed. This is from Huckabee himself.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Barnes #11,
You listen to GB too much. I am not Hitler’s spirit brother. That is absurd and is apparently based upon some concept of Mormon theology as well. Maybe in that theology I am his spirit brother, but outside of that I am not.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Matthew, I respect your views tremendously, but as a member of the church that Huck CLEARLY was trying to disparage by his comments, I shudder to think that he would be POTUS and harbor those views towards my religion. Our church members through the years have endured insuffrable concequences as a result of religious bigotry, especially from government officials, and while I recognize that the USA of today is incredibly more tolerant than it was in 1840 towards Mormons, it is disheartening to know that a potential POTUS would feel a need to tear down my religious beliefs. He is not someone I could ever support in light of his comments, apology or not.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
I am glad Mike apologized. Now I can support him in good conscience.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
#6. I do not want a theological debate, but I would like to know. As Muslims believe in Jesus as well, are they Christian?
December 12th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
Let’s all move on to the substantive issues please
December 12th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
Huck is bigot pure and simple. He was a bigot back in 1998 when he spoke at the anti-mormon baptist convention in salt lake city. And he still is today. The amazing thing is he is going to get away with it. Any comment like this agnainst another faith would get ridiculed. If he had said the same thing about Jews it would be all over. But for some reason it’s ok to bash Mormons. If he gets the nomination he can kiss the west goodbye. That’s right even Utah and Idaho. If he becomes president I know plenty of Mormons switching to the Democratic party. Harry Reid doesn’t seem to be getting any hassle from his party.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
14. I am not a Mormon, but I beleive we are all brothers and sisters, including you and hitler
December 12th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Jared,
What part of the fact that the NY Times writer was telling Huckabee about Mormonism, prompting him to ask the question which was obviously based upon something he had heard?
December 12th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
#13 – I understand what you are saying, I guess my point is that why even bring that statement/question up in the 1st place???? It was TOTALLY inappropriate, and most people will see that for what it is. An attempt to call into question the theological beliefs of Mormons, in particular his biggest threat, Mitt Romney. His apology seems very suspect to me, and I think it will come across that way with others who know better.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Well, he damn well better apologize. What a stupid offensive question to ask. This whole thing was nothing more than damage control as Huckabee had a lot to lose.
We’ll see how sorry Huckabee is in the future. Hopefully, Huckabee will lay of the excessive ‘Christian’ over-tones implying that Romney is a non-Christian cultist as his religion and the SBC website clearly states.
It will be easy to move on if these covert slams cease.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
#22, see my post #21, which explains how it came up.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
cwpete #23,
What amazes me is that people such as yourself do not consider what LDS says about Huckabee’s religion.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
That 1998 convention to Salt Lake was what made Jimmy Carter leave the Southren Baptist Convention. Funny that a sitting governor would speak at it. That’s like Mitt Romney speaking at Mormon general conference. Only having the conference in Rome.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Man I was feeling all good about to write some comment praising Huckabee and then I read Mark’s comments and I’m pissed off again. Stop talkin about theology. If you want to go to your Church, go to a small group, go to a religious meeting of some sort…heck go to a public square and talk religion to your hearts content. But shut up about it here. I don’t care what your religious beliefs are and I don’t care what you think about Mormons. This is a political forum and your religious insights don’t do anything but detract from that.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
#21 – C’mon Mark, Huck was a Baptist Minister for crying out loud. Do you really mean to tell me that he knows nothing of what Mormons believe, and that he was innocently wondering what our religious views are?? I really don’t think so, and again, I think that most people will see it for what it is. Clearly you are saying that you aren’t “most people”
December 12th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
21 – that’s the ‘welcome to the big leagues mike’ part.
Can anyone close to the Huckabee camp peruse Mike’s theology bookshelf for any, uhmmmm, well, literature that just might happen paint other faiths in, uhmmm, let’s just say a negative light?
December 12th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
I accept the apology. I think he knew what he was doing because he has preached against mormonism in Salt Lake City before, so he knows what he is doing. It was clearly telling when he said that he didn’t think that would be included in the article – meaning he knew it was off base. But hey, I’m willing to forgive him. He just has to realize that everyuthing he says and has said will be used against him by others. He’s a top-tier candidate now.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Mark,
There’s some nice religious blogs out there. Why fill up this political site with theological irrelevancies, if not to stir the pot?
December 12th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
#28 Jared,
If Huckabee knew about Mormon theology why would the NY Times writer have been informing Huckabee about Mormon beliefs that led up to his question?
I fully believe that Huckabee did not know about Mormon theology. If you look at the necessary courses for a theology degree, such a course is not necessary. Only if people go into apologetics does that type of stuff come up, and there is nothing to indicate that Huckabee ever did.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
#21 – C’mon Mark, Huck was a Baptist Minister for crying out loud. Do you really mean to tell me that he knows nothing of what Mormons believe, and that he was innocently wondering what our religious views are?? I really don’t think so, and again, I think that most people will see it for what it is. Clearly you are saying that you aren’t “most peopleâ€
That questions was a load of you know what by the Huckster. The guy brags about his theology degree on national t.v. His excuse that his interviewer had more knowledge of comparative reliion is bogus. Heck every Christian kid in my high school had attended anti-mormon seminares. I find it hard to swallow that Huck is playing the innocent card
December 12th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Murphy and Tarheel,
I am not discussing theology to discuss theology, I am discussing it in light of the specific comments that the media has provided on theology relative to Huck’s question. I believe that is plain. My entire point surrounds the fact that he has been mischaracterized.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
So is this a tempest in a teapot, or is this the stuff that knocks candidates down and possibly out?
December 12th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
As for Huckabee, I have a difficult time believing his claims of ignorance on the issue. Yet I feel even more strongly bound to forgive someone when they ask for it.
Huckabee stepped in it. I’d like to move on.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
#33,
Huck had a degree in HIS theology, not other people’s theology.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Mark,
The problem with the statement was the implication that Mormons believe Jesus and Satan to be on the same spiritual and moral plane. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus is 100% good, and Satan is 100% evil. They were spirit brothers, or sons of God, just as you and I are spirit brothers and sons of God. The innuendo was an attack based on an appeal to ignorance, and constituted the bearing of false witness, which is one of the ten great sins (i.e., a violation of one of the Ten Commandments).
Having said this, I appeal to all Latter Day Saints to fully accept the apology, and move on.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
#17 – Mark – You continue to want to bring religious specifics into polotics to avert the issues. Be honest you think mormons are cultists and you have no problem with that. In that light we can take your arguments for what they are – anti-mormon biased. Thats fine for a private citizen like yourself but not from a potential POTUS.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
#28 Jared,
“If Huckabee knew about Mormon theology why would the NY Times writer have been informing Huckabee about Mormon beliefs that led up to his question?
I fully believe that Huckabee did not know about Mormon theology. If you look at the necessary courses for a theology degree, such a course is not necessary. Only if people go into apologetics does that type of stuff come up, and there is nothing to indicate that Huckabee ever did.”
That questions was a load of you know what by the Huckster. The guy brags about his theology degree on national t.v. His excuse that his interviewer had more knowledge of comparative reliion is bogus. Heck every Christian kid in my high school had attended anti-mormon seminares. I find it hard to swallow that Huck is playing the innocent card
December 12th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
#32 – Pursuing a theology degree might not require a knowledge of LDS beliefs, but being a Baptist Minister, where he definitely has parishioners who will ask about the doctrines of the LDS church, might prompt him to brush up on his anti-mormon rhetoric. I’m not buying it Mark, and again, I say that most people won’t buy it either. And most people accuse Mormons of being “brain-washed” Sheesh!
December 12th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
So he apologized to Romney and that is the end of it with Romney. Good.
But, he did not apologize to me in any way so any potential vote he might have from me next year is withheld until he does. In other words he never attacked Romney, he attacked an entire religion. The apology should be to the audience he attacked.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
#39,
I do not think that Mormons are cultists actually. I feel that the word “cult” is horribly abused today actually. I just feel that the critics have not handled this matter very well.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
#42 – EXACTLY!!! Thank you for posting that. Huckabee needs to go on the air and apologize to the MILLIONS OF MORMONS HE OFFENDED by his comments. We are attacked by people like him EVERY DAY, and can smell it from a mile away. Huck stinks to high heaven, and I don’t buy his attempt at sincerity AT ALL. Again thank you for your post Larry!!
December 12th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
#42,
The very point is that he as not attacking anybody.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
I remember after the attack of Al Sharpton he did apologize to the entire LDS church. Huck should follow his Christian example.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
“Mark Says:
December 12th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
#33,
Huck had a degree in HIS theology, not other people’s theology.”
Give me a break. Every theological univeristy requires comparative relgion classes… no matter how biased they may be. They have to. They are out there on a daily basis trying to win and keep people in their fold.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
#44,
Maybe you have a persecution complex.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Huck had a degree in HIS theology, not other people’s theology.”
Give me a break. Every theological univeristy requires comparative relgion classes… no matter how biased they may be. They have to. They are out there on a daily basis trying to win and keep people in their fold.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
#47,
That is simply not true.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
#43 – thats nice to hear why won’t Huck say that? He has been asked it before and dodges it. All he has to say is exactly what you said. “I do not think that Mormons are cultists actually” By not saying that he implies they are.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Mark I understand your comments from #4 a little better now. But looking at your comments it’s not plain you’re defending how Huck is being characterized. imo you should make your comments focused on those political issues and less on doctrinal
December 12th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
#48 – Or maybe just a lack of patience for bigots.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
#51,
Actually if you read the NY Times interview he said as much. He was asked if it was a cult or a religion and he said a religion.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
I can’t believe anyone wants to keep this issue alive. If you forgive, move on. If you don’t, you have to move on as well because I believe Huckabee is going to stay away from questions about anyone else’s faith.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
#54 – In every interview I’ve heard him he dodged the question
December 12th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Like I said in my post, I really think people ought to move on. It’s very possible Huck will step in it again on this issue, and if so, we’ll roundly criticize him. But, Huck seemed gracious and reasonably contrite. And no Romney supporters want this race to be about religion. Whatever you may think of Huckabee or his explanation, for now we’re better off returning to more substantive issues.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Mark,
A little word of advice. You are making yourself look like Johnny Cochran defending OJ Simpson. Those are the only 2 people on the planet that thought OJ was innocent, just like you and Huck are the only 2 people on the planet that think Huck was innocent in his remarks. If you don’t want to appear a bigot, avoid defending the remarks of one.
Now, like Matthew said, let’s move on to the issues where Huckabee REALLY has some explaining to do!!
December 12th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
#57 – agreed
December 12th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Dan I took a comparative religion class for my non-pastoral position in university ministry a few years ago. Never mentioned Mormonism once.
Huckabee may not have even taken a comparative religion course because he only went to seminary for a year.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
#55 – I would stay away from those questions too if I was a bigot trying to keep those views from the public light . . Crap did I just say that?? I meant to move on
December 12th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
I really don’t buy the “I just don’t know how to handle the media” line. He is a top tier candidate for the Presidency of the United States, for crying out loud. People are pressuring him do something, and he’s damned if does and damned if he doesn’t? Oh, poor baby. Like Mitt, Rudy, McCain, and Fred haven’t been getting the same pressure as he? Cry me a river. If he thinks it’s tough now, wait until he’s President of the United States!
As to the specific gaffe, didn’t anyone ever tell him that religion and politics makes a dangerous mix? Didn’t he hear people complaining about him doing just that? Yet here he was, making a gratudious swipe at Romney’s religion after the MSM interviewer had moved on. So the increasing howls of outrage weren’t enough to deter him? He just lowered his head and bulled on.
Apparently this is a Huckabee trait. How many people tried to convince him not to let that rapist go, yet he did. Apparently nothing has changed. He hasn’t learned a thing.
And I want this man to be President of the United States? Why?
December 12th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
According to Huckabee, Mitt Romney was very gracious in accepting the apology.
I suggest that we all do the same. This thread is getting really nauseating.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
#62 – Well said marK . . Did I just say that
December 12th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Huck’s anti-mormon hate speech combined with his anti-Gay rhetoric could sink him in Iowa.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
On a side note, I just read a hilarious email!
It said:
“This is how all business phones should be answered in the United States.
Hello, and welcome to the United States of America. Press 1 for English. Press 2 to be disconnected until you learn English.”
I laughed pretty hard at that one. ( and this coming from someone who is bilingual with Spanish)
Just thought I would lighten the thread up a bit.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Can somebody purge Mark? This guy is Huck-A-Pologist
December 12th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Jared,
Johnnie did not believe OJ.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
#68 – Let’s hope that nobody believes Huck either
December 12th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Just curious if anyone can shed light into this class offered at Ouachita University – I’m 100% certain that it doesn’t cover mormonism. At least I don’t think it would fit this category, would it?
3403. World Religions.
A study of the major living religions other than Christianity. Fall, Spring.
Oh, and why would a silly google search yield about 12,000 hits? (search term: +Ouachita +mormon)
That’s right, this was an innocently simple remark – Huckabee’s attempt at humor gone badly awry.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Why would Huckster apologize if he didn’t do anything wrong. This guy (Huck)
does not know when to quit. Keep speaking Huckie and lose Iowa.
December 12th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Mark (#13) This actually is almost always the first line an anti-Mormon person would bring up with anyone studying the religion. As such, this is why there have been such a huge respond to this remark. And unfortunately, the claim from Huckabee campaign on how this line was brought forth did not match the tape the reporter had. It’s out there. But yes, I am glad Huckabee has apologized for his remark. Now I am looking forward to hear from him apologizing for many things he has said the past few days.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
SGS,
What tape? According to the report he took some paper notes.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Mark,
Please shut up you bigot!!
December 12th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
How am I a bigot? LOL. I’m the guy that said Mormonism is NOT a cult.. real bigot here.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Mark, here’s the reporter’s side of the interview with Huckabee:
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/magazine/16huckabee.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
It does not sounds like Huckabee was replying in surprise, as claimed by his campaign.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
SGS,
Where did his campaign say anything about surprise? Huckabee said that in the discussion the writer was telling him about what mormons believe and so he asked a question about what he had heard.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Yeah you just keep defending the Huck-a-Bigot, which makes you a bigot.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Jimbo,
Obviuosly you’re the bigot for attacking people that asked a question to be informed not to attack.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
It seems to be half an apology to me. He is apologizing for making it a political issue, not apologizing for making a negative statement about the LDS faith. Half an apology is better than no apology, but I would have been actually impressed if he said LDS people are good people and deserve better than being represented by negative mischaracterizations of their faith.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Let’s just all be bigots and move on, ok?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
I believe his apology was self serving. He was able to put the garbage out on the table in front of almost all voters, then attempt to squirm out of it by an apology. He probably got in more trouble for the remark than he had calculated, so he felt he had no choice. I don’t trust the man as far as I can throw him, and don’t feel the apology was heartfelt. However, I need to try to forgive the man, regardless of a heartfelt apology or not, so I’ll try to do so.
I sure as heck hope this guy don’t get the nomination, cause I’ll have a tough decision on what to do with my vote.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
bjader26,
He did not make a statement, he asked a question!
December 12th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
I am certainly prepared to forgive Huck the remark, assuming that that is the last of them. However, as mentioned above, I will not soon forget his continuing recklessness and his seeming unability to heed the warnings of others. I would have thought that being Governor of Arkansas or any state for that matter, would have better prepared him for this, but obviously I was wrong.
I see George Allen and his ‘macaca’ moment here.
Boy, Huckabee sure proved himself mortal in a big hurry. Barely one week in the top tier and he has a major, big time gaffe. Most such candiates last at least a week or two before that happens. Maybe he really believed that he was God’s candidate and had no worries?
Iowa is up for graps, people.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Good. Now we can finally move.on.dot.com. It’s about time.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Mark, yea it appears to be not as cut and dry as I thought it was, what exactly was the circumstances around this?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Wow! The Pope just side-smacked algore!
“Humanity today is rightly concerned about the ecological balance of tomorrow,” he said in the message entitled “The Human Family, A Community of Peace”.
“It is important for assessments in this regard to be carried out prudently, in dialogue with experts and people of wisdom, uninhibited by ideological pressure to draw hasty conclusions, and above all with the aim of reaching agreement on a model of sustainable development capable of ensuring the well-being of all while respecting environmental balances.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=501316&in_page_id=1811&ito=1490
December 12th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
An anti mormon question that he has taught thousands of times to people to ask in order to disparage Mormons. He already knew the answer to his question. Huck-A-Bigot is a liar. Do you remember the commandment “thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” Mark are you really that stupid. Please answer because if you believe this guy then i’ve got a million pet rocks to sell to you at a $100 a piece. You idiot!!
December 12th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
What promted Huckabee to ask that question? Has he explained that?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Whether Mike Huckabee becomes our next President or not, there’s one thing that he will NEVER have to apologize for…and that’s for being a Christian, no matter what people say about him.
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
#62 “I just don’t know how to handle the mediaâ€
Didn’t Huck say in a debate or interview somewhere that he had been in an executive position the longest?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
bjader,
According to Huckabee, in the midst of the discussion the NY Times writer was telling him about mormon beliefs. As he seemed to be very informed on them he asked the question.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Jeremiah,
Do you smoke a bowl before you post, cause you are freaking out there
December 12th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Jimbo,
I guess you haven’t considered that you are breaking the very commandment you cite, for as you cannot read Huckabee’s mind or heart you really don’t know if what you’re saying is true, you’re just assuming it to be so. If you are wrong, and I believe you, then you are breaking that commandment.
Btw, Huckabee did not break that commandment even if he did intentionally ask the question, because he only ASKED a question and in fact the answer is “yes.”
December 12th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Mark,
How long have you and Huck-A-bigot been sleeping together?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
According to Mark, maybe Huckabucky thought the remark would be helpful to Mitt??? You gotta be kidding me. Anyone who would believe that just might be someone who would support a snake oil salesman….oh yeah, you do, don’t you?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Damn it – you all can be pissed at me too but I have to respond to Mark.
I got my degree from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY. I was there from 2001 until 2005 when I graduated with a degree in counseling.
ALL SBC seminaries and colleges require classes on all religions – especially those they feel are “threatening” to the SBC in America and yes – the LDS is the fastest growing denomination in the USA, so ALL SBC students, graduates, and especially pastors know LOTS and LOTS and LOTS about other religions especially Islam and LDS. Apologetics is a REQUIREMENT in ALL pastoral and biblical training in the SBC. Huck knew full well that what he said would be printed because he wanted it to be. He needs to keep the Iowa Evangelicals scared of Mormonism. By putting the comment out there the way he did he now has plausible deniability for the media, real conservatives, and other voters. Huck knew exactly what he was doing and he is lying when he says he doesn’t.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
It’s just a question
December 12th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Grow up.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Jimbo,
No, I don’t, what do you eat for breafast? Uuuuuh, let me guess….Donkey turds, that’s it.
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
90 – Who’s saying Huckabee isn’t a Christian? Bigotry and Christianity are not always mutually exclusive, are they? I wonder if history might enlighten us on the subject?
Let me translate:
Not all Christians are bigots
Not all bigots are Christians
Some bigots are Christian
Some Christians are bigots
(Oh, and if you want, feel free to replace Christian in the example above with any religion,church,cult, or whatever you want, and the logic is still true)
December 12th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
RayinNH,
I believe Huckabee got his degree a long time ago. WHile I do not doubt what you say, the fact that they now require as much does not mean they always have.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
RayinNH,
Thank you my brother, thank you perfectly said. Mark, do you still want to buy a million pet rocks?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
97 – thank you for your perspective – it is refreshing given the amount of spin going on
December 12th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Jeremiah,
Great come back I don’t know if I will ever post again it was so good.(Please read sarcasm)
December 12th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
I don’t know exactly what to think of this. It was definitely a bad thing to let escape from your lips, but I don’t know if we can attribute any negative motives to this statement. At best, he was suckered by the journalist, at worst, he’s been caught trying to attack Romney’s religion and has had to back off. The media will make him pay enough for this, I can’t say that I really care. If he makes consistent statements from now on, he’ll get past this, if he says more stupid things, he’ll get nailed.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Mark,
Come on now my friend. You really believe the crap your fingers type? Let’s be serious here – Every denomination knows everything about their “enemies.” Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, i believe the old saying goes. Or how about – you can not defeat that which you do not know.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Huck-A-Bigot is a liar, flat out.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Here’s a Rombot angle worthy of exploration:
In apologizing to Mitt for unintentionally offending him, Mike was pointing out that Mitt had failed to apologize to Muslims, atheists, agnostics, and seculars for deeply offending them.
Mike! How could you imply such a thing! For shame, for shame, for shame!
December 12th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Rayin,
Yes, I do. If you look at a bit of history the “anti-cult” (I put in quotes because I’m not saying that, just referencing) movement really only took off with Walter Martin mostly in the 1970s. Since then it has taken a much heavier focus, but prior to that it was more of a side issue.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
#109 That’s where the lie is it wasn’t unintentional.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Mark,
You clearly are an idiot and will believe anything Huck-A-Bigot says. So how was Huck-A-Bigot in the sack?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Ray, Huckabee took one year of seminary classes before he dropped out.
Is it conceivable you could go a year without learning about Mormonism?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I have been interviewed by the New York Times, Newsweek, and Toronto Star in my lifetime so far. I never recall accidentally antagonizing another religion during those interviews. This was extremely calculated, to scare the evangelicals in Iowa and it had no other purpose.
Having said that, I think the real apology is better deserved by the parents of murder victims Huck is responsible for.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
“the LDS is the fastest growing denomination in the USAâ€
I think it’s considered the fastest growing, but there’s some debate on that subject, because I believe some televangelist church grows faster, but can you really consider them a church in the traditional sense? Also, I believe the LDS faith has a mediocre retention rate due to the big commitment required of “active†members, so there’s some debate surrounding what should and shouldn’t count.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Can somebody please get Jimbo to stop acting like a 12 year old?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
I’m just asking questions Mark
December 12th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
“Ray, Huckabee took one year of seminary classes before he dropped out.”
Really? Did he switch to something else, or what? All it says in wiki is, “He graduated magna cum laude from Ouachita Baptist University, completing his bachelors degree in 2½ years before attending Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas.”
December 12th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
106 – both of those scenarios reflect very poorly on Mike Huckabee. Let’s assume that the clever and dastardly journalist pulled a fast one, and then sensationalized it with the PR last night to hype up the article. I just can’t get out of my mind that this ‘casual 2-hour’ discussion with this nice and approachable journalist coaxed such a phrase innocently out of Mike’s mouth. As has been covered repeatedly, there are a couple of religious slurs that get the expected response and for Huckabee to innocently toss one of those out casually seeking confirmation from his confidant, the reporter is incredibly suspect.
Anyway, if it was a trap by the journalist and Huckabee suffers long term, that stinks for Huckabee. If it was intentional and Huckabee suffers long term – good. But I suppose if Huckabee succeeds and wins the nomination, that really stinks.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
bjalder he graduated with a communications degree from Ouachita Baptist University and then attended seminary for one year before leaving to become a pastor.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
This is my final post on this thread.
I tend to take people at their word. Mitt Romney says he is truly pro-life, I believe him. Fred Thompson says the same, I believe him. Mike Huckabee offers what I believe to be a valid explanation of the full context of the discussion that lead of to his question, I believe him. Until somebody is actually caught lying, I give them the benefit of the doubt, and so far I have not found any of these to be caught in as much.
Having said that, people can believe what they want, but I would just say that people should be careful of assuming another’s motives if they do not know, especially if one considers himself to be a Christian.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
EGS – anything is possible and you obviously you want to believe Huckabigot knew nothing about Mormonism. I will wager money on the fact that as a SBC pastor Huckabigot knows more about mormonism than most marginal mormons do.
Huck is a bigot and that comment was one of the most calculated political moves of the 2008 race.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Good Riddance!
December 12th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
[...] Huckabee apologized to Romney. Hopefully he’ll steer clear of this type of thing in the future. Posted at 11:47 [...]
December 12th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Ray, I try not assume what people know. That a busy Baptist minister hasn’t studied in depth about a small religion seems likely.
My in-laws live in Arkansas and Mormons are extremely rare there.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
OK… let’s jump ahead 90-120 days – and we have Mitt and Huck in a celebrity death match for the nomination – Rudy wins some, but Mitt/Mike lead going into the convention. Can you see either of them selecting the other as VP? If so, would any of this ‘discussion’ sway one or the other toward giving the other the nod?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
EGS – keep the wool over your eyes …. you will enjoy your world more that way … i’m done talking about this nonsense … don’t bother to respond
December 12th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Guys, as a non-Mormon strong supporter of Romney and definitely not of Huckabee, may I offer a little perspective? On many issues, people tend to exaggerate the malice and minimize the ignorance of unnecessary statements.
Isn’t it possible that Huckabee simply made a mistake? He brought up something about LDS doctrine that makes no sense out of context, but he may not have done so out of malice. It’s hard to run for president and have every word you say dissected for proof that you are a jerk. I think Huckabee just said something that shouldn’t be fodder for a presidential campaign, he knows he did, so he apologized. Now, let’s move on, and we Romney supporters can go back to supporting our guy because we think he’s the best person for the job of president.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
125 – there isn’t any ‘in depth’ study required here… What Mike said was bullet point number one on just about every piece of anti-mormon religious pornography.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
What the hell happened to Rett? Where’d he go?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
FCOH,
re. #87
Why on earth do you read that as a sideslap at Al Gore?
Sounds to me like a slap at his opponents.
“Prudence does not mean failing to accept responsibilities and postponing decisions; it means being committed to making joint decisions after pondering responsibly the road to be taken.”
“He added that to further the cause of world peace it was sensible for nations to “choose the path of dialogue rather than the path of unilateral decisions” in how to cooperate responsibly on conserving the planet. ”
Let me guess. You got hoodwinked by the title of the article, right?
Go back and read the pope’s actual words, then tell me how the spin that the paper put on it is in any way justified.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
This may be an unpopular position for a Romney supporter to take, but I tend to think this one question is another stupid slip-up, rather than it being a bigoted question. I do however think he’s purposely neglected stating whether “Mormons†are Christians or not so that he can make some evangelicals happy while not making a campaign ending statement.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Huck does not deserve to be VP. He is a fiscal liberal, immigration pansy, and dubya on steroids … i don’t want to ever have to listen to him again after this campaign cycle
December 12th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
TLG – good evening my friend … i have been wondering the same thing … i certainly must say that i don’t miss him
December 12th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
How about “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. Do you think Huck was obeying that commandment?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Of course he hasn’t said Mormons are Christians because he would lose half of his support. He’s stupid, but obviously he’s been coached to say Mormons aren’t Christians.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
I think it’s very possible that if Huck and Romney fight it out for the nomination and Romney wins, he could choose Huckabee as VP to unite the party. I don’t think Romney helps Huckabee in the same way, however, so I don’t think Huckabee would pick Romney for VP. Huckabee would need a very strong senior figure, like McCain or maybe Santorum.
As a non-Mormon Romney supporter, may I say that I think Huckabee’s apology should be accepted graciously and not really questioned? Huckabee shouldn’t have said anything about LDS theology, not for the least of which because what he said sounds bad out of context. But maybe he just made a mistake, you know? How does anyone know if Huckabee knows anything about LDS theology? I bet he really doesn’t. Where he comes from, there aren’t many members of the LDS church. It’s a long campaign, and a six-second sentence or question shouldn’t disqualify anybody. Everybody says things he shouldn’t from time to time. I think Huckabee would be a terrible choice for the GOP, but not because he said something he shouldn’t have to a New York Times reporter one afternoon.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Especially if what he says is true…”spirit brothers,” and all…
December 12th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
I know members of Protestant faiths who won’t even say that Catholics are Christians, let alone members of the LDS church.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Marksal #136 – if the convention is broken then Huck will have to choose Mitt. He really would have no choice. And FDT would be 1 gazillion times better than Huck as Mitt’s VP.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
#135 He’s stupid
Only in the mind of a FOOL!!!!!!
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
TLG, I’m not sure what happened to Rett. I’d not be surprised if after he was attacked Kavon canned him. Perhaps Rett quit. I don’t know.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Mark, EGS, et al,
The following is a cut and paste from the Hugh Hewett site, referencing an email he received:
Hugh,
The MSM focused on Huckabee’s assertion that Romney believes that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, but missed the more important part of the quote—“I don’t know much about the religion….â€
The most charitable comparison I can make is to Casablanca’s Inspector Renaud’s expression of “shocked, shocked that there is gambling going on here…â€
In 1998, the Southern Baptist Convention provocatively scheduled their annual meeting in Salt Lake City. The potential confrontation attracted a record number of mainstream media hoping for a dust-up (that never came). In preparation, the SBC distributed a 50 minute video entitled “The Mormon Puzzle†to 40,000 SBC congregations as well as publishing over 12,000 copies of a book entitled “Mormonism Unmaskedâ€
The keynote speaker?
Mike Huckabee.
See UNCoRRELATED for more details.
Mick
Can we PLEASE drop the Huckabee really didn’t know what he was saying, meme?
December 12th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Good for Huck! No, Huckabee doesn’t have to say Mormons are Christians. The term Christian is in the eye of the beholder, so we will argue this until the cows come home.
He could say they aren’t cultists though (I think he may already have).
Let’s get back to the real reasons why Huckabee should not be our nominee.
December 12th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Has anyone ever heard of, Walter Martin?
~ Jeremiah
December 12th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Irish, Huckabee didn’t say the word Mormon in that speech and he just flew in and flew out.
I know because my father in law was present at that convention.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
A Holy War makes the GOP look petty and small. Huckabee made a huge error in judgement, but he has now done the only thing he can to rectify it. Republicans absolutely need to move on.
Kudos to the first poster on this thread. What a worthy ideal.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
EGS,
The salient point in that email was that the SBC distributed 40,000 copies of a video as well as 12,000 copies of a book that I will generously not describe as anti-Mormon. To suggest that Mike Huckabee was so disconnected from the information contained in those two items is to “willingly suspend disbelief”.
His Mr. Innocent act not only doesn’t play in Peoria, its option shouldn’t be picked up anywhere.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Huck knew full well what he was doing, but since he apologized, I’m not going to hold it against him. People make mistakes. I sure would hate to run for office and have every single little thing I ever said in public under scrutiny.
It shows good ol’ Huck has some scruples left and I will respect him for that.
On the race though, in the heat of the moment Huck made a few mistakes in his explanations of previous positions. I think those are the ones he should be more worried about.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
I think that those of you who have stated you accept Huck’s apology deserve commendation. It is noble and you should be respected for that.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
People throwing the word “bigot” around are shameless. You sound like liberals.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Maybe I should be more tactful. By using the word “bigot” against one of your own, assuming you’re a Republican, you’re using liberal framing.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
#144 – Have I heard of Walter Martin?
Jeremiah, Yes, I have heard of Walter Martin. I have the book, Kingdom of the Cults, by Walter Martin.
He spoke for a whole week at my Bible College, from which I graduated with a BA in Bible and a Minor in Biblical Greek in 1975 … and guess what?
I do not think Mormonism is a cult!
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
Some of the Mormon beliefs may not land under the umbrella of Orthodox Christianity, but they are still children of God.
It wasn’t too long ago that Protestants believed that every Catholic was going to hell, and visa versa.
That’s all I have to say about that.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
There is a good chance everyone but jews are going to hell.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
huck is acting like people are pestering him on what he calls “the God questions” . he has made that a central part of his campaigning, by his own choice. he has brought any and all questions upon himself, and he receives significant political capital from it. any complaints about that are foolish.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
I want to say I’m not the “John” in the post above who thought Mark should be kicked out, apparently there’s two of us on Race42008, I have not seen the other “John” except recently ( and once a while back, of course that may have been a different John) so I assume I’m the that’s been here longer. All of you people so offended by this need to literally drop it, its not your interest to keep up this religious war.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:07 am
John,
I don’t appreciate his comments either, but some people need to see his comments to understand the real anti-religious, anti-faith strain that is out there (and no, it isn’t religious when you take a Bible and bash somebody over the head repeatedly until they yeild–we’ll call that “Bibleboarding” a form of mindcontrolling torture).
As I was saying, people need to understand that these crazies are out there so that they don’t just think “Oh, there goes those ‘Mormons’ complaining of widespread bigotry.” I’m all in favor of letting the crazies talk as long as I am allowed to ridicule their folly. Surely there are move voices of reason than of stupidity?
December 13th, 2007 at 12:38 am
On #153. There is a good chance there is no hell. Sorry if that offends anyone. I’m agnostic and I get a little tired of this religion talk or comments like “freedom requires religion”.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:46 am
Kudos to Huckabee for apologizing. My biggest complaint with Huckabee has been his inability to acknowledge mistakes.
His naive “I didn’t realize my statements were going to be parsed” isn’t very endearing, but he’ll probably end up a stronger candidate for this.
December 13th, 2007 at 10:47 am
I don’t think it’s fair to attack Huckabee using liberal Politically Correct attacks.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
I’m less concerned with his appology about his comments this week, and more concerned with his participation in the anti-mormon conference in SLC in 1998. Huckabee’s participation in any such event is highly offensive, and a deal breaker for me.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Considering Huckabee never found the time to call or apologize to the families whose daughters were brutally murdered, Huckabee’s “camera ready apology” seems very opportunistic.
“Davidson and Williams said they’re particularly angry because Huckabee has never called them to apologize or explain his part in the DuMond case.
“In retrospect,” Huckabee said, “someone should have made some contact. They have every right to feel distraught. I say that with sorrow, respect, and absolute regret for the terrible things they went through.”
But nary 24 hours goes by before he makes a beeline to Mitt to apologize for some words?
Huckabee’s apology just doesn’t cut it.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
To Jared and MarK:
Adolf Hitler and Huckabee are brothers. It’s true isn’t it? Do you get it? It is not a remark meant to clarify doctrine, but meant to smear. And in that regard, it was disingenuous.